Eco-Friendly Powerset Recycling!

[Alchemystic]

Having more choice over the Dual Pistols animations would be nice, there's enough from standard NPCs as well as ones from Thugs to cover most powers in the set.

 

But I think Dual Pistols as a concept went from being gangsta to being over-the-top and iconic. It's all based off popular gunslingers in media, such as sentai, or action thrillers like Wanted, Equilibrium, and so on...

 

The design choice was to put as much wow factor as they could into the set, but that also meant ignoring older material to do so.

 

I have a prototype powerset I'm not too sure on that makes use of the Thugs/Enforcers powers for a more traditional Dual Wielding set, but I have no idea what would set it apart from the many Lethal damage based sets we got already.

[BrandX]

5 hours ago, Player2 said:

Some of the animations are good.  Some are not.

 

Pistols, Dual Wield, and even Empty Clips are just fine as animated attacks.  Bullet Rain is where things go stupid, as you shoot upward into the air while swinging your arms with each shot as if to push the bullets out of the guns a little harder and then they arc through the air to curve downward again toward the enemy...  defies physics.  It's plain stupid and the developers were stupid for allowing the animator to do that... or worse, REALLY stupid for asking for that.  Then back to okay with Suppressive Fire and Executioner's Shot, and returning to stupid-town once more with Piercing Rounds.  Even Hail of Bullets is tolerable because the character is supposed to be shooting in all directions and needs to move around to get that effect...  But I want to slap the stupid out of whoever thought Bullet Rain's and Piercing Rounds' animations were a good idea.

 

But while there are people like you who feel it would be boring to just stand there and shoot, others find it equally a turn off for being over-animated.  And if everything were over-animated to not be "boring," then the game would be catering to people specifically who want one thing while ignoring people who want something else.  Sometimes you have to give the other side what they want, too.  Balance.

 

After the amount of stupid that went into the animations of Dual Pistols, I'd be perfectly happy for a "just stand still and shoot" blast set... something that would look a little more calm and zen-like rather than an over-caffeinated idiot spazzing out.

 

You realize, every set was stand there and shoot.  Energy/Fire/Cold/Sonic/Etc/Etc were just stand there and repeat what basically amounted to the same animation over and over.

 

And let's look at your list.  Two attacks have animations you don't care for, leaving all the rest for you to be happy with.  So, two wild attacks for those who would like some wild animations, and then 5 just fine animations.

 

So, really, the issue seems to be, you wanted the whole set to be a stand and shoot set.

 

Which you can get from all the other blast sets.  Until Water Blast, which I feel is the next set with something feeling different than extend hand and shoot, or aim weapon and fire.

[Alchemystic]

Looking at what powers are available in the powerset, there's a few changes that can be made to make it look a bit more no-nonsense:

 

Pistols, Dual Wield and Empty Clips all have a version available in the Thugs mastermind powerset.

Executioners Shot and Ammo Swap seem okay as is, they aren't -too- over the top.
Suppressive Fire and Piercing Rounds could perhaps use the generic hip-fire animation and the 'huge' sniper animation respectively.

Bullet Rain and Hail of Bullets are a little too difficult to change, however.

[Vanden]

I’m all for making the shared powers between Thugs and Dual Pistols also share animation options.

[Player2]

6 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

You realize, every set was stand there and shoot.  Energy/Fire/Cold/Sonic/Etc/Etc were just stand there and repeat what basically amounted to the same animation over and over.

 

And let's look at your list.  Two attacks have animations you don't care for, leaving all the rest for you to be happy with.  So, two wild attacks for those who would like some wild animations, and then 5 just fine animations.

 

So, really, the issue seems to be, you wanted the whole set to be a stand and shoot set.

 

Which you can get from all the other blast sets.  Until Water Blast, which I feel is the next set with something feeling different than extend hand and shoot, or aim weapon and fire.

No... two attacks whose animations are so over the top that no explanation justifies them, and then the rest of the set I can tolerate.  I'm not all happy about or with the rest of the set... I just said some were fine and others were tolerable.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Player2 said:

No... two attacks whose animations are so over the top that no explanation justifies them, and then the rest of the set I can tolerate.  I'm not all happy about or with the rest of the set... I just said some were fine and others were tolerable.

 

Yeah.  The whole, stand there, out stretch the hands, and shoot people for every animation, that you seem to want, sounds boring and like every other blast set.  No movement.  Just stand and fire.  Dual Pistols feels like one is moving about, dodging attacks, putting in some flourish.  

 

And I love bullet rain.

[Player2]

5 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Yeah.  The whole, stand there, out stretch the hands, and shoot people for every animation, that you seem to want, sounds boring and like every other blast set.  No movement.  Just stand and fire.  Dual Pistols feels like one is moving about, dodging attacks, putting in some flourish.  

 

And I love bullet rain.

Dodge powers are for dodging attacks.

 

Also, don't do that thing where I say something is way over-animated and you decide that what I "seem to want" is a motionless firing stance.

You can't read my mind, so don't put words in my mouth by saying what you think I mean.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Player2

[Alchemystic]

lets take the discussion about Dual Pistol animations to a more fitting thread

[FoulVileTerror]

Quite fair, Tyrannical.  Especially since it seems to have migrated to the phase of arguing over what people said, intended to say, and what other people's interpretations of those are.

 

SO!

Work on the Tactical Grenade Set is moving slowly, I must regretfully admit, since I'm still overwhelmed with day-to-day awfulness at work . . . 

But is there anyone else out there working on any of Tyrannical's other low-hanging fruit Sets?   I think it would be awesome if someone takes a stab at another Naturla-friendly Control Set, in particular.

[Alchemystic]

@FoulVileTerror Don't worry about it!

 

If it helps, much of the numerical data for the powers in that set already exist in game, you can access them by typing in the power's name in brackets, like [Tear Gas] or [Sleep Grenade], and then clicking on the link that appears in the chat box.

 

They won't be the best fit for the powerset, but it's something to work with!

Edited September 11, 2020 by Tyrannical

[FoulVileTerror]

Ah, yes, but then the Powers wouldn't be quite balanced to existing Sets.  I'm trying to write up stats for Tactical Grenade which are largely based around the regular Control Sets' highs and lows, but while still trying to keep something unique and fresh in the mechanics for those players who don't play this game for anything other than just a combat simulator.  You know the type; people who think it would be pointless to have two different Sets with the same damage type available to a single Archetype, regardless of the themes and animations.  I may not be able to understand those people's perspective, but I'll still try my best to ensure the work I do is inclusive to them.

[Alchemystic]

Going back and looking at support powersets that could be retooled to function as defense sets, I was surprised that I missed Force Field, considering I created three other sets with 'force' in the name... so I figured I'd do another quick one.

 

Force Armor

 

 - Deflective Shield: Identical in effect to Force Field's Deflection Shield, with the same FX.

 - Kinetic Dampening: An auto power that provides resistance to lethal, smashing and energy.

 - Insulating Shield: Identical in effect to Force Field's Insulation Shield, with the same FX.

 - Force Barrier: A new click power that gives a temporary +MaxHP effect, similar to Dull Pain or Hoarfrost, has the same visual FX as Force Netting's target effect.

 - Protective Shield: A new toggle power, grants your basic suite of mez protection, looks identical in effect to the Barrier incarnate power's bubble FX.

 - Waves of Force: A PBAoE toggle power for brutes, tankers and scrappers, deals smashing DoT with a chance to knock down. Has the same FX as Repulsion Field.

 

 - Dispersion Bubble: Taken directly from Force Field, provides a nice team buff similar to Grant Cover.

 - Force Absorption: Another new click power, granting a large amount of Absorb and a slight boost to smashing, lethal and energy defense. Uses the aura FX that Praetorian PPD have when they receive damage.

 - Personal Force Field: Taken directly from Force Field, fills a similar function to Hibernate.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Tyrannical

[HelBlaiz]

A cool mechanic for a grenade set would be a delayed effect. When used out of combat, the powers have a five second delay, no aggro, allowing you to lay on a few powers before everything happens at once. Would be difficult to code, I imagine, but would make it feel more tactical, like a gadget set should.

[FoulVileTerror]

Actually, probably super-easy.  Barely an inconvenience.

Make all the Powers summon Pseudo-Pets which act similarly the Trip Mine Power, but their Self Destruct Proc is flagged as requiring a secondary Trigger, which would be delivered by the Player's "Remote Detonate" Power.

I'll keep that in mind as a variant if the Standard Load / High Explosive idea I'm working on right now ends up being super unpopular.

[Alchemystic]

Inspired by the Wand Blast set @Aberrant created for the Weekly Discussion a few weeks back, I figured I'd have a try at creating something similar using assets from a few different places. 

To avoid completely stealing the idea, I'm going to call this powerset 'Power Weapon', to be a little more inclusive to characters wanting to opt for other approaches to the set in regards to origin or style. The idea for an 'Ammo Swap' mechanic is definitely interesting, though to avoid copying the exact same damage types, this powerset will primarily deal Smashing damage, and then Energy, Negative or Psionic through the 'Power Core' ability.

 

The FX for this are going to be based entirely on the material used in Sorcery and Demon Summoning, with an alt FX option to remove the runes so it looks less focused around magic. This way, you have the option of retaining the traditional Wand/Staff aesthetic, but also a means of making it function as any other origin. Many of the animations are taken from Arachnos Mace, along with wand/staff wielding foes in the Circle of Thorns and Carnival of Light.

Other than that, perhaps using the FX from Bane/Crab Spiders might be suitable, since there are many powers from Bane Spider or Mace Mastery that are designed to work with a prop/weapon like this, and Crab can fill in the blanks, buuuut I'd like to avoid making this powerset Bane Spider 2.0.

Power Weapon

You have in your possession a sophisticated Power Weapon. This weapon may be an item of magical artifice, or technological machination, or perhaps even the instrument for channelling your powers. Power Weapon focuses on dealing raw smashing damage to foes, but can be further augmented by the 'Power Core' ability, allowing you to inflict additional Energy, Negative or Psionic damage.
 

 - Weapon Bolt: A simple low damage blast attack. Uses the standard Wand animation. Uses projectile FX of Spirit Ward (or Channelgun)

 

 - Weapon Blast: A heavier hitting blast attack, using the unique Arachnos Mace blast animation when used with shields. Uses projectile FX of Arcane Bolt (or Mace Blast)

 

 - Wave of Power: A moderate damage cone attack, using the 'Crowd Control' War Mace animation to project the wave outwards, knocking foes back. Uses projectile FX of Enflame (or Mace Beam Volley)

 

 - Power Core: A special power similar to Ammo Swap, imbuing attacks with a secondary damage type. Uses the animation from 'Lost Cure'/'Radiant Burst' animation. creates a faint rune aura and glow on the weapon (or the 'summon' FX on mace mastery)

 Energy Core: Changes secondary damage to Energy, adds chance to Siphon Endurance to Weapon Blast, Power Ray and Power Storm, and adds a minor -End to all attacks. 

 Dark Core: Changes secondary damage to Negative, adds chance to Siphon Health to Weapon Blast, Power Ray and Power Storm,and adds a minor -Heal to all attacks.

 Chaos Core: Changes secondary damage to Psionic, adds chance to Siphon Recharge to Weapon Blast, Power Ray and Power Storm, and adds a minor -Recharge to all attacks.

 

 - Power Cascade: A PBAoE blast power that deals moderate damage, uses the 'Moment of Glory' animation to hold the Weapon high and blast everything around. Uses the FX of Rune of Protection (or Frenzy)

 

 - Power Cage: A ranged hold power that deals high damage, using the same generic Wand animation as Weapon Bolt. Uses a ranged version of the Translocate FX (or Poisonous Ray)

 

 - Weapon Beam: A sniper attack that utilizes the 'Mace Beam' power available to Scrappers/Stalkers with Mace Mastery. Uses projectile FX of Enchant Demon (or Mace Beam)

 

 - Power Ray: A heavy blast power with low range, using the same animation as the default Mace Blast animation seen on many Arachnos Mace powers. Uses projectile FX of Abyssal Empowerment (or Disruptor Blast's projectile)

 

 - Power Storm: A heavy ranged AoE power that blasts all foes around for heavy damage, using the unique 'Summon' animation from Mace Mastery. Uses the same FX as when summoning demons, centred on a targeted location. (or a larger version of Disruptor Blast)

 

 

Power Assault

You have in your possession a sophisticated Power Weapon. This weapon may be an item of magical artifice, or technological machination, or perhaps even the instrument for channelling your powers. Power Weapon focuses on dealing raw smashing damage to foes, but can be further augmented by the 'Power Core' ability, allowing you to inflict additional Energy, Negative or Psionic damage.
 

 - Weapon Bolt: A simple low damage blast attack. Uses the standard Wand animation. Uses projectile FX of Spirit Ward (or Channelgun)

 

 - Weapon Brand: Identical power to Pulverize, has slight glow FX (with or without runes)

 

 - Wave of Power: A moderate damage cone attack, using the 'Crowd Control' War Mace animation to project the wave outwards, knocking foes back. Uses projectile FX of Enflame (or Mace Beam Volley)

 

 - Weapon Blast: A heavier hitting blast attack, using the unique Arachnos Mace blast animation when used with shields. Uses projectile FX of Arcane Bolt (or Mace Blast)

 

 - Power Core: A special power similar to Ammo Swap, imbuing attacks with a secondary damage type. Uses the animation from 'Lost Cure'/'Radiant Burst' animation. creates a faint rune aura and glow on the weapon (or the 'summon' FX on mace mastery)

 Energy Core: Changes secondary damage to Energy, adds chance to Siphon Endurance to Melee Powers, and adds a minor -End to all attacks. 

 Dark Core: Changes secondary damage to Negative, adds chance to Siphon Health to Melee Powers,and adds a minor -Heal to all attacks.

 Chaos Core: Changes secondary damage to Psionic, adds chance to Siphon Recharge to Melee Powers, and adds a minor -Recharge to all attacks.

 

 - Power Cascade: A PBAoE blast power that deals moderate damage, uses the 'Moment of Glory' animation to hold the Weapon high and blast everything around. Uses the FX of Rune of Protection (or Frenzy)

 

 - Weapon Beam: A sniper attack that utilizes the 'Mace Beam' power available to Scrappers/Stalkers with Mace Mastery. Uses projectile FX of Enchant Demon (or Mace Beam)

 

 - Weapon Smite: Identical power to Shatter, has slight glow FX (with or without runes)

 

 - Power Ray: A heavy blast power with low range, using the same animation as the default Mace Blast animation seen on many Arachnos Mace powers. Uses projectile FX of Abyssal Empowerment (or Disruptor Blast's projectile)

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Tyrannical

[GenesisMan]

I know there were some stabs at Illusion Control for Dominators a few pages back, but I added my own take on the powerset below. Let me know what y'all think.

 

Illusion Control
 

- Menace - Single target fear, moderate psi damage, with a chance for a small AoE sleep (same effect found in Blind). Uses same animation as Spectral Wounds. Sleep AoE not impacted by Domination.

 

 - Blind - Taken from Controller version. Sleep AoE not impacted by Domination.

 

 - Deceive - Taken from Controller version.

 

 - Superior Invisibility - Taken from Controller version.

 

- Distract - Ranged (Cone), -To Hit, Sleep, Confuse, -Perception

> Replaces Group Invisibility with a copy of the Ninjitsu power Blinding Powder.

 

- Harrowing Visions - PBAoE Fear, -To Hit, Moderate Psi damage

> A slightly tweaked, beefed up copy from the Presence power pool. Adds -To Hit and moderate psi damage.

 

 - Spectral Army - Summon Decoys

> The Spectral Army's Decoys can be dealt damage (still can't be buffed or healed), but have the Intangible ability (a la Carnival of Shadow's Illusions).

> Like the Carnies' Illusions, these Decoys also have the on-defeat power Psychic Visage (Post Death Special, Point Blank Area of Effect) Foe -Endurance

> Lower the Decoys' dps by 10%

 

 - Flash - Taken from Controller version.

 

 - Phantasm - Taken from Controller version.

Edited September 15, 2020 by GenesisMan
FoulVileTerror suggestions added

[FoulVileTerror]

I think @GenesisMan has pretty much nailed it.   Nicely done!

Possibly add a little damage component to Invoke Panic, and change its name.   "Harrowing Visage" perhaps?  "Screaming Terror" and make it use a Howl animation?

[GenesisMan]

Good ideas! I have modified the power accordingly 🙂

[Alchemystic]

Substituting the normal Sleep/Immoblize powers with Fear is an interesting move, but it might just work 😜

 

[AerialAssault]

On 9/11/2020 at 2:53 PM, Tyrannical said:

Going back and looking at support powersets that could be retooled to function as defense sets, I was surprised that I missed Force Field, considering I created three other sets with 'force' in the name... so I figured I'd do another quick one.

 

Force Armor

 

 - Deflective Shield: Identical in effect to Force Field's Deflection Shield, with the same FX.

 - Kinetic Dampening: An auto power that provides resistance to lethal, smashing and energy.

 - Insulating Shield: Identical in effect to Force Field's Insulation Shield, with the same FX.

 - Force Barrier: A new click power that gives a temporary +MaxHP effect, similar to Dull Pain or Hoarfrost, has the same visual FX as Force Netting's target effect.

 - Protective Shield: A new toggle power, grants your basic suite of mez protection, looks identical in effect to the Barrier incarnate power's bubble FX.

 - Waves of Force: A PBAoE toggle power for brutes, tankers and scrappers, deals smashing DoT with a chance to knock down. Has the same FX as Repulsion Field.

 

 - Dispersion Bubble: Taken directly from Force Field, provides a nice team buff similar to Grant Cover.

 - Force Absorption: Another new click power, granting a large amount of Absorb and a slight boost to smashing, lethal and energy defense. Uses the aura FX that Praetorian PPD have when they receive damage.

 - Personal Force Field: Taken directly from Force Field, fills a similar function to Hibernate.

Not going to lie, today while feeling sorry for myself for being ill, i'd wondered about Force Field as a Defence set, and you were about 75% the same as my idea.

 

Mine was a bit more convoluted, involving a 'Expand/Retract' inherent power which would lower the overall potency of the powers but make them AoE's instead when set to max range, making the set a Support/Defence hybrid... but I'm always a sucker for "less is more" so I think yours is better in that regard.

[Galaxy Brain]

On 9/11/2020 at 10:46 AM, FoulVileTerror said:

Actually, probably super-easy.  Barely an inconvenience.

Got a new powerset for you sir!

 

New powersets are *tight*!

[Replacement]

3 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Got a new powerset for you sir!

 

New powersets are *tight*!

Vileterror is going to start holding threads where only they respond to themselves.

 

I just got too meta, didn't I?

[Player2]

So here's a thought that might irk some people:  what about a melee control set?  A martial arts using chi powers to stun and paralyze opponents.  Obviously the lack of range would make it problematic for the squishy ATs that will be using it, so in addition to inflicting holds and immobilizes and stuns, have a couple of the single target powers also grant the user a short term defense bonus like Katana's Divine Avalanche to offset the need to get in close for attacks.  A PBAoE stun attack will also be useful in giving the user a little breathing room.  Using assets from Martial Arts (and maybe a few other power sets), you can put together attacks with melee animations that inflict some damage (normal for controllers) but have a higher status effect potential than the melee archtypes.  Like Mind Control, this would be a petless control set.

 

T1:  Crippling Blow  (Melee Moderate DMG. Foe Immobilize, Self +DEF Melee)  You hit the target's leg, causing them to temporarily lose the ability to move in addition to some pain.

T2:  Paralyzing Strike  (Melee Moderate DMG, Foe Hold, Self +DEF Ranged)  You strike a nerve causing temporary paralysis in addition to the crushing force.

T3:  Cobra Strike  (Melee Moderate DMG, Foe Disorient)  pretty much identical to the Martial Arts power, just reduced damage to fall in line with other control sets.

T4:  Dragon's Tail  (PBAoE Light DMG, Foe Knockdown)  pretty much identical to the Martial Arts power, just reduced damage.  Light damage rather than minor to make up for being a targeted AoE.

T5:  Lightning Kick  (Cone Minor DMG, Foe Knockback)  use the original Storm Kick animation and every target within reach gets a little taste, being knocked back by the flurry of kicks.

T6:  Ground Strike  (PBAoE Foe Disorient, Foe Knockdown)  use radiation melee's animation for Atom Smasher, attacker project's their Ki in all directions to stun enemies (like Foot Stomp).

T7:  Demoralize  (Ranged AoE Foe Fear, Foe ToHit Debuff)  use the Presence pool's animation for Invoke Panic, the user terrifies his opponents into a limited submission.

T8:  Whirling Strike  (PBAoE Foe Hold)  use the animation for the blaster version of Storm Kick... struck foes are briefly held by the user's Ki.

T9:  Project Ki  (Toggle PBAoE Disorient, Self +DEF All)  use the animation for Illusion's Group Invisibility; everyone that gets in the user's range starts getting stunned back as well as having attacks turned aside.  Either give it a maximum duration like Phase Shift or an extra Endurance cost per foe affected (like to Force Field's T9 power) to prevent this from being relied on constantly.

 

Spamming the T1 and T2 powers bumps up the the user's defense to help offset all the melee requirement of the set.  All of the damage is at the early levels, and the greater crowd control aspects at higher levels.  Could probably be balanced a little better, but overall it would be different from other control sets in that it would suit Natural origin controllers as well as any other origin.  A great excuse to bring back the old Storm Kick animation

Edited September 16, 2020 by Player2

[Alchemystic]

@Player2 likely a powerset befit of a completely new Archetype to be honest, the idea of a melee ranged controller is an interesting one, and I think it's been discussed a few times in the past.

'Matrial Control' was also mentioned a little while back over on @Darkneblade's thread. 😅
 

 

[Player2]

14 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

@Player2 likely a powerset befit of a completely new Archetype to be honest, the idea of a melee ranged controller is an interesting one, and I think it's been discussed a few times in the past.

'Matrial Control' was also mentioned a little while back over on @Darkneblade's thread. 😅
 

 

Interesting.  But I'm not a big fan of re-using Throw Sand in this set.  Fine for blasters and ninja melee types.  But I was going for more martial arts mystique and power.  Save the flashy tricks for the ninjas... let the kung fu masters rely on their own skill and inner power.

 

As for being fit for a new AT...  I don't think that's necessary.  The reduced range is offset by a few powers granting a bit of personal defense.  It's not a flaw, it's a feature by design.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Player2