Focused Feedback: Dark Melee Update (Build 1)

[Murcielago]

1 minute ago, Myrmidon said:

I literally can’t wait to see the Proc Monster that comes out of this.

Call him the Proctologist 

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, Murcielago said:

Call him the Proctologist 

That's reserved for the Shock Therapy.

[Murcielago]

2 minutes ago, Avilister said:

The only real downside to these changes seems to be figuring out where to pull 3 more slots in my build from other stuff to feed my new Dark Consumption addiction.

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1481&c=688&a=1376&f=HEX&dc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

[Neogumbercules]

Played 125 and +4/8 and absolutely crushed it. I'm loving these changes. 

[Troo]

44 minutes ago, Murcielago said:

My biggest concern is when is this change going live because I don't want to play Murcielago until it is. I don't really use SM much but I love the shit out of this Dark Consumption change. 

Soon™©℠®

[KelvinKole]

I'm not quite sure I agree that any of these changes were necessary. Does every set really need to have nuke potential? Call me stubborn, but dark melee held a niche spot among other melee sets for offering great single target dps and survivability. It was okay that it didn't have a lot of Aoe, and now it might be too good.

 

That said, I can get on board with the dark consumption change but I'm not in favor of the shadow maul changes.

The issue now is it doesn't have a place in the dark melee attack chain, due mostly to its long animation relative to the rest of the set and not so much that the aoe is hard to use. Id rather see the cast time reduced, damage left where it is, and recharge increased. Make it a higher dpa attack with the same small cone for those that take the time to line it up. A burstier option than midnight grasp. 

 

[csr]

2 hours ago, ssbmario said:

PLS PLS PLS PLS PLS Do NOT CHANGE Dark Consumption!

 

Dark Consumption is a utility power and should be kept AS a utility power to run the god awful amount of dark armor toggles because this set, regardless of how any one feels is SUPPOSED to work with Dark armor (another set that needs help).

 

It is SOUL DRAIN that is a complete POS. A slow ass animation that gets you shot to hell when you use it on a large group (hurr hurr, I'm a tank, some goof is chuckling) but as Moncro can attest to SOUL DRAIN on a SQUISHY tends to get the SQUISHY KILLED by unmitigated aggro.

 

The dmg buff of Soul Drain is totally shit, too. Won't believe me without evidence? Give EVERYONE a choice (not tanks, they don't count as they break the curve by literally absorbing all dmg anyway) between build up and Soul Drain and NO ONE will take Soul Drain. It's even more garbage SOLO when it's down to you vs a Boss. a 7% dmg buff (unless that's been fixed finally dear god PLS FIX THIS GARBAGE).

 

For tanks Soul Drain is fine because they can herd people together and then pop it except with max target's it's still only 105% dmg (7% x 15 targets) which is hardly better than build up which is instant and doesn't require 10-20 seconds of prep time and herds (unless playing at x8 solo which is NOT what beginner toons do).

 

Think about it: Soul drain was meant to be the AoE of Dark Melee. I cannot fathom WHY but it is. It has the extended range necessary to BE the PBAoE. It had the "bonus" (absolutely F*ing TROLL) of giving a damage buff which means that in order to DEAL Dmg the scrapper had to LOSE OUT on their PBAoE damage. To put that in perspective take the other melee sets and lower their DPS, shrink their cone to virtually non-existent and REMOVE BUILD UP and tell me you want to play a broadsword like that... a Spine like that. No one in their right mind would play any melee set that was forced to play in the mold of Dark Melee because it was ill-conceived when it was designed.

 

Let me be clear:

 

You're taking a single target only one-on-one style set and giving it a self-fulcrum shifting NUKE BLAST.

 

That is NOT fixing something. That's sounds of TREMENDOUS overcompensation. I thank you as someone who ran Dark Melee for YEARS in considering my set and giving it a buff but this is RIDICULOUS. Fix SOUL DRAIN. Soul Drain is a completely WORTHLESS POWER. No one truly even gets a BENEFIT from Soul Drain. Every high level team is a nuke fest. Long time battles don't exist (except vs AV's which means 7% dmg vs build up's 80%) which means Soul Drain's Long Duration+low dmg vs Build Up's short duration+High Dmg is a liar's argument (cause the AoE won't be rechrg'd in time for the next group to still be standing).

 

PS: Pls fix me so I can get into the test server and actually auto level a toon so I can try these and other changes myself. This is exactly the kind of thing I want to be testing. I can get to test and get a level 1 and that's it. I don't even seem to be able to copy things to test including my 50 dark/dark brute.

Soul Drain has two buffs it applies, so that 1st guy actually counts as much as 6.  I just tested to make sure it was working on beta and it is: +48% Damage from hitting one guy on my Brute.  If you've been playing DM and think Soul Drain is worthless, then you're doing something very, VERY wrong.

[SwitchFade]

This really almost convinces me to try DM... that flurry punchy animation though...

 

😣 Ew

 

But tempted😌

[Noyjitat]

Hmm so now shadow maul be like.... jet gatling gun.

 

 

[MunkiLord]

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Normal attack.

So does this mean it will crit for Scrappers and gain the benefit of the ATO proc????????????????????????

[MunkiLord]

2 hours ago, Murcielago said:

My biggest concern is when is this change going live because I don't want to play Murcielago until it is. I don't really use SM much but I love the shit out of this Dark Consumption change. 

I'm already throwing around ideas for MunkiLord's respec.

 

  

2 hours ago, Neogumbercules said:

DM/Shield using a "purpled out" build that I slapped together on a whim did a Pylon in 3:42 with no Lore. 

 

I'm not sure what that translates to in DPS but I feel like it's a good result. I was using Dark Consumption is the attack chain and cycling Smite, Siphon, Midnight, and Zapp as available. 

 

I'm by no means a pylon person, but there's a casual players pylon result anyway. 

 

Edit: I checked out the pylon thread in the scrapper forums and if I punched the formula in right a time of 3:42 puts me at 299.43 DPS. Not bad. 

That's a good start, you'll be able to get that quite a bit lower if you can keep Soul Drain and AAO saturated. Though Dark Consumption doing so much damage may actually be a hindrance in this context now because it'll kill off some of the SD/AAO fuel.

Edited February 26, 2020 by MunkiLord

[twozerofoxtrot]

7 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Something akin to if Scrappers had double-rage foot stomp.

hhnnnnggg

[SHOCKnAWE]

I was just on test trying out the changes to the Dark Melee set.  One word: Excellent!!  The AOEs, especially Dark Consumption finally feel like they are making a damage impact rather than just, very infrequently, filling your Endurance bar.  I wish that Siphon Life healed better per activation, but I LOVE the changes to Shadow Maul!!  Changing the arc to 120 degrees and upping the max enemies hit potential was genius.  The greater enemy coverage and shorter activation time makes this a power I would now respec into on live.  Great addition to the pool powers as well, with Experimentation.  All the naysayers must have limited experience with DM; how could anyone with experience and a love of this set dislike any of the changes?  It's beyond me....  Great job guys!! DEPLOY THIS PATCH!! 🤩

Edited February 26, 2020 by SHOCKnAWE

[Camel]

I’m just going to leave this here... this was a level 50 boss. No outside buffs. Only a fully stacked Soul Drain and AAO. 

[Camel]

56 minutes ago, SHOCKnAWE said:

I was just on test trying out the changes to the Dark Melee set.  One word: Excellent!!  The AOEs, especially Dark Consumption finally feel like they are making a damage impact rather than just, very infrequently, filling your Endurance bar.  I wish that Siphon Life healed better per activation, but I LOVE the changes to Shadow Maul!!  Changing the arc to 120 degrees and upping the max enemies hit potential was genius.  The greater enemy coverage and shorter activation time makes this a power I would now respec into on live.  Great addition to the pool powers as well, with Experimentation.  All the naysayers must have limited experience with DM; how could anyone with experience and a love of this set dislike any of the changes?  It's beyond me....  Great job guys!! DEPLOY THIS PATCH!! 🤩

If you slot the chance to heal proc from the new IO set Power Transfer into Dark Consumption it turns it into Reconstruction. I was regularly hitting mobs for INSANE damage and getting a +500 heal off every 22 seconds.

Edited February 26, 2020 by cazden121

[Doc_Scorpion]

7 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Just happens I rolled a dark/shield brute just the other day and he was sitting in Atlas Park at lvl 7.  Took him out for a spin on Brainstorm...  and Shadow Maul's increased recharge time really effs up low level attack chains.  I'll get him up to DO levels later and see how it feels there.

Starts to feel pretty good in DO levels once I can start slotting some recharges.  Still a bit "gappy" and rough, but workable.  Will play with SO's, probably in a couple of days.  Busy day tomorrow and won't be home in the evening.

[Captain Powerhouse]

Clarification since I seen this statement a few times: Dark Consumption’s Radius was not increased.

[macskull]

2 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

I'm not quite sure I agree that any of these changes were necessary. Does every set really need to have nuke potential? Call me stubborn, but dark melee held a niche spot among other melee sets for offering great single target dps and survivability. It was okay that it didn't have a lot of Aoe, and now it might be too good.

 

That said, I can get on board with the dark consumption change but I'm not in favor of the shadow maul changes.

The issue now is it doesn't have a place in the dark melee attack chain, due mostly to its long animation relative to the rest of the set and not so much that the aoe is hard to use. Id rather see the cast time reduced, damage left where it is, and recharge increased. Make it a higher dpa attack with the same small cone for those that take the time to line it up. A burstier option than midnight grasp. 

 

...Its animation time is now shorter than it was before.

[csr]

2 hours ago, KelvinKole said:

I'm not quite sure I agree that any of these changes were necessary. Does every set really need to have nuke potential? Call me stubborn, but dark melee held a niche spot among other melee sets for offering great single target dps and survivability. It was okay that it didn't have a lot of Aoe, and now it might be too good.

 

That said, I can get on board with the dark consumption change but I'm not in favor of the shadow maul changes.

The issue now is it doesn't have a place in the dark melee attack chain, due mostly to its long animation relative to the rest of the set and not so much that the aoe is hard to use. Id rather see the cast time reduced, damage left where it is, and recharge increased. Make it a higher dpa attack with the same small cone for those that take the time to line it up. A burstier option than midnight grasp. 

 

I believe that the primary impetus behind these changes is the fact that the new Tanker inherent offered so little to Dark Melee.  So the decrease in single target value and increase in AoE value of Shadow Maul makes sense with that goal in mind.

 

By my metric (which is similar in construction to what Capt P described he was using), these changes increase DM from a distant last place in AoE to about even with the other weak AoE sets.  People comparing it to Electrical Melee seem to be ignoring Chain Induction and Thunderstrike (probably because of the cast time on the latter) and the fact that Dark Consumption won't always be cast at 100% END.  Interestingly I now have DM getting as much buff from the Tanker inherent as War Mace and just a bit below the average benefit from the +Area.  Energy Melee would be the new last place on that list.

[Robotech_Master]

I don't suppose the Shadow Maul changes will propagate to the Sands of Mu temp/prestige powers? 🙂

[Major_Decoy]

So, I put a level 50 tank Invulnerability/Dark Melee tank together on test, and it feels alright. I put a full set of the new Synapse set into Dark Consumption. It played pretty well. It recharges a bit faster than Soul Drain, the way I have things slotted out currently. It's fun. I'm looking forward to seeing what it's like leveling with it.

 

Shadow Maul worked well, though I'm more interested to seeing how that plays at lower levels.

[Wavicle]

8 hours ago, Haijinx said:

The recharge for SM won't matter in the long run.

 

Its pointless to worry how something works at level 7, no one spends any time there.

Boy am I glad you're not a dev.

[Sovera]

*curls up* Just as I was 'welp, I've done all the concepts I'd care to, there really isn't much else to r-...' you guys hit me with this.

 

Hopefully it will not take half the time the Tanker changes did because I've only just rolled a character that would fit perfectly as DM.

[Haijinx]

4 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Boy am I glad you're not a dev.

Okay look at it this way.  

 

You get a choice 

 

Your Tier 3 attack power can have (Same animation) 

4 second Recharge 

-or-

8 Second Recharge 

 

At level 7 the first choice is obviously better.  You only have a few powers and you miss a lot more.  

 

But since damage is based on Recharge,  which power is better in the long run?

 

Ill take longer recharging / Better damage / Better DPA attacks every time. 

 

Even if you are just soloing Arcs (+0/x1) you barely spend 30 minutes at level 7.  

 

That's before you even add in the fact that longer recharging attacks proc more. 

 

[KelvinKole]

6 hours ago, macskull said:

...Its animation time is now shorter than it was before.

I realize that. The thing is it still has a longer animation than midnight grasp and now the damage has been reduced, apparently in favor of making it easier to hit multiple targets. Tankers may like this, but I don't think it becomes a more attractive power choice for other archetypes, because you don't need another AoE when you can take out everything but bosses with Dark Consumption:

 

7 hours ago, cazden121 said:

I’m just going to leave this here... this was a level 50 boss. No outside buffs. Only a fully stacked Soul Drain and AAO.