5 Things to Encourage Conventional Leveling

[drbuzzard]

On 6/30/2020 at 7:38 AM, Doomguide2005 said:

Nope that's part of Nerf /Friday ... although maybe we can nerf Friday by allowing any day to Nerf/Regen 😁

I am quite certain that every day is nerf regen day already. 

[Noyjitat]

2 hours ago, gameboy1234 said:

Who's on first?

who

Edited July 2, 2020 by Noyjitat

[Noyjitat]

forum had a stroke double post.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Noyjitat

[0th Power]

21 hours ago, Noyjitat said:

who

I don’t know

[Xanatos]

Well written new content is the only thing that will get me to play lower levels.

 

Who cares about rewards? You can 1-50 in a day and make billions a week without any real effort.

[gameboy1234]

1 hour ago, 0th Power said:

I don’t know

Third base.

 

(Sorry for the derail, I'll stop now. :))

[lemming]

On 6/30/2020 at 11:04 AM, RCU7115 said:

Thats the reason I only team up for TF's , SF's and Itrials. I'm not going to team up with somebody running regular missions and then not see the Reward Merits. Besides I've already run all of the lvl 1-34 story arcs 30+ times during live. I prefer to run story arcs solo that way I can take my time enjoying the content. There is one exception I remember there being a mission where you have to click on 2 glories on different floors simultaneously but now that we can multibox that no longer a problem.

I believe all missions that require more than one blinky clicked at the same time, no longer have that requirement.  (I've solo'd most mission arcs by now without that being a problem)

[ThunderCAP]

The problem is that there is plenty of content in the game that players don't even know cause they ask for the best way to level up and get sucked into farming teams.

This is a problem for all of us (farmers included), cause such players may dislike that and leave the game without even experiencing the best of it (you can farm in ANY mmorpg, but not all mmorpgs got City of Heroes story arcs or feeling which you will never experience closing yourself in Sewers or Architect farming missions made to just "kill fast"). Some of the new players may like the kill-kill-kill routine, some other won't and the latter will uninstall completely unaware of City of Heroes' strengths or weaknesses.

Plus I would like to add that not all players are experienced enough and know what they are looking for. They enter the game and ask for the "best powerset" (or similar requests)  but what they really desire is to get fun. Not knowing the game they won't know where the game excels at being fun or where it suits more the player it self. That causes the "unbalanced" powerset or source of exp or income to be suggested more often (by the experienced players) and would result in what I described before (kick out players that would have preferred something else and didn't even know what).

We should at least attempt to reach a situation where the majority of the new players gets attracted (not forced) to the whole actual content of the game (openworld, story, npcs, architect, all of it) by balancing it all with the correct prizes (which leads to the proper suggestion by the pro-players, the perfection would be to "What do you prefer? Everything gives you pretty much the same!"). DFBs, farming etc. will always be needed for the experienced players which just want to create the 658th toon and are sick of the actual game's content already so they just want to level up without interruptions or cutscenes etc..

A final very personal note: to me the exp speed feels already far too fast at low levels, you can easily reach level 30 in one day without the double exp. I actually feel forced to deactivate the exp here and there to complete some story arcs in the right time (without the need to time travel), so increasing the exp of the story arcs would just make players skip even more content.

If there is an evident unbalance we shouldn't transform the whole content into a "speed run" to balance story arcs with farming (and imho we already reached the "speed run" point without farming anything), we can't make it any faster. So I'd suggest to slow down the unbalanced parts instead (yes I'm suggesting nerfs instead of buffs in this specific case, where all feels buffed already but some things are probably still too unbalanced if they are suggested so much to newbies).

My 2 cents and reply for whoever asked about what's the issue.

[Biff Pow]

I feel like the travel power at level 4 was the best encouragement. Early leveling is so fast now I don't think anything else will convince the people already skipping it.

[Six-Six]

@Thundercap,

 

Now this is a valid and very good point. Thank you for the caveat in the argument. It's not so much "getting players to play lower levels" but more of getting them to bite into the meat of the game, get a feel for the game and what it has to offer, which ATs they might like. Not an easy task since the bulk of it depends on the player "wanting" to. 

Maybe an entirely new section (for lack of a better term) comprised of a few levels is necessary... like the tutorial part of most games on consoles. It takes a few minutes/levels to explain the potential of the AT you picked, the pros and cons etc. Kinda like the Breakout/Galaxy City but a bit more depth (maybe until level 10???) Then before it lets you loose it asks whether you want to try other ATs (go through the tutorial again) or stick with the one you have but try different powers??? I don't know. It could even be just a rework of the splash screen in Costume Creator, the part that has the write up of the ATs. 

[gameboy1234]

10 hours ago, ThunderCAP said:

The problem is that there is plenty of content in the game that players don't even know cause they ask for the best way to level up and get sucked into farming teams.

It does fell like ideally this is the sort of thing that we want new players to experience.  Actual content that they play through and enjoy.  But I'm not sure how many new players we are actually getting, and how much of this game is just nostalgia for returning players.  Given the graphics and the pre-WOW presentation, is CoX really going to attract new players?  It might but I don't think it's certain.  One thing we might want to consider is a survey when creating a new login to ask if players are new or returning.  Might give us some hard data about what players we do have here.

 

Anyway, good thoughts and well expressed.  I do agree that we should be thinking about player experience, new content, and presenting that content to the players.  But I think we also have to be careful about making assumptions and be certain about who our player base is and what kind of experience they want.

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by gameboy1234

[Patti]

Lots of new players!  Waves hi!

[gameboy1234]

4 minutes ago, Patti said:

Lots of new players!  Waves hi!

So, seriously: for new players, what do you like about the game, and what do you think could be improved?  Anything at all, open ended question!

[Patti]

I think it would be nice if there weren't so many grumps telling us to get to the end of the game or leave.  I think I lot of them don't even realize they're doing it.  They think they're being helpful.  There are also for sure good people who ask new players to explore and enjoy the game but they usually get shushed by other people saying that's not helpful.  I think part of the problem there also tho is that the game only really starts to reward players at 50 with lot and stuff.  More low level loot would really help make it feel like there's a reason to play and not just powrlevel up.  Maybe let new players get to taste stuff like incarnation or task forces at all levels so they can play with their friends who brought them or give old players who team up with new layers something special and meaningful so it's not just more rewarding to keep grinding incarnation stuff.

[Monos King]

13 minutes ago, Patti said:

I think part of the problem there also tho is that the game only really starts to reward players at 50 with lot and stuff

This is just not true, Patti. Being level 50 is in of itself a reward, as you've unlocked all your powers and such at this point. I guess that's somewhat undervalued since it is now so easy to reach 50, but to suggest there are no rewards from lower levels is like suggesting there is no or simply superficial progression, which is perhaps most untrue in this game compared to almost any other.

 

15 minutes ago, Patti said:

Maybe let new players get to taste stuff like incarnation

I'm not even against incarnates but absolutely not. You can't obfuscate the unique privileges of being at the end game with "reason to play", that means you have been only looking at the end game; as a reference point no less. I know your trying to create greater reward (and by extension stronger progression) but things like what you just spit-balled is like the death of progression. That would just be getting rid of the uniqueness of the privileges of being upper level and homogenize the reward pool - there almost wouldn't be much special about being higher levels if the ultimate unlocks weren't even unique to end game, and then people would just demand even more from them. Not to mention there is just zero reason to do something like this.

[gameboy1234]

4 minutes ago, Monos King said:

This is just not true, Patti. Being level 50 is in of itself a reward, as you've unlocked all your powers and such at this point.

I see what Patti is saying though.  Powers are a lot more fun when you actually have the whole set.  The early game is slow and can feel tedious to play through.  For incarnate content, a lot of effort has gone into the content itself (not really the powers so much) that makes it more interesting to play, and I can see why people might be asking for more of that at lower levels.

 

(And I think theoretically Preatoria provides a lot of the things that Patti is mentioning.  But it's so depopulated that it's hard to recommend, especially to new people.)

 

 

 

[Xanatos]

On 6/30/2020 at 4:27 PM, tidge said:

This feels like a solution in search of a problem.

 

[plainguy]

 

On 7/2/2020 at 12:27 AM, Noyjitat said:

On 6/30/2020 at 8:49 AM, ShardWarrior said:

What exactly is preventing you from using the available tools in game and here on the forums?  Seek out like minded players, form a group, team up and run all the content how you like.  You have plenty of tools available to do as much socializing as you want to.  At least to me, this solves your perceived problem and there is zero development time required.  You and others like you can play how you like and others can play how they like.

Because its easier to bitch and moan about how others play and try to dictate how they play. Nerf what they like, remove what they like and then wonder why they stop playing your "great vision of a better healthier game"

 

You should look at my Petless mastermind post on Torchbearer forums, then come back and tell me if okay to post an idea and get like minded people.  

it's amazing the annoyance people express. I see no difference then Tanker Tuesdays or some other all AT team up.  
Yes they could have moved on but they just had to express their contempt. 

But no one is saying get rid of AE Farms..  There are already nerfs in to prevent AE farming to some degree. But it still doesn't stop players from doing it.  
On Torchbearer there are times I am yes farming or PL a toon and I can see more people asking to join a farm at level 1 then responding to the player who is trying to form DFB team..  

Here is the reality farming a toon from 1 to 50 gets you about 200 million inf plus a bunch of recipes which can include purple drops as well.  200 million is a decent number to make a build depending on the AT and how much purple you want in it.  I can tell you most of my builds are a mix and I can make a build at this price point that can solo 3/8 setting.. Which for me is good enough.  My test is usually PL to 50. Slot the build I had planned and then run the Incarnate mission to unlock the Alpha slot on 3/8 and see how it rolls and discover what I am lacking or what are the major weaknesses are.

So I didn't read any place here ( which I might have missed ) where it said nerf or take away something to make regular teaming better. What I did read is give a better benefit to teaming outside of AE..  

I am happy that I can PL my crazy petless ( or semipetless ) masterminds to level 50 in AE because I know no team would have me and that is okay and I UNDERSTAND IT and why..   Sad part is everyone would take my standard IO mastermind with pets though on a team just because they see what they expect to see when they look at a mastermind.. Little do they know that this weaker build could not do or withstand game wise what my petless mastermind can do.   Perception...

  

[Riverdusk]

59 minutes ago, plainguy said:

 

 

You should look at my Petless mastermind post on Torchbearer forums, then come back and tell me if okay to post an idea and get like minded people.  

 

I actually see similar way too often on help channel when people ask about sentinels too.   "Even defenders do better damage, sentinels suck, aren't worth playing, blah, blah."   I think sentinels are probably only half a step up from petless MM's on the derision scale currently.

 

Also, when I see on LFG channel people asking for people to send tell including their AT and powersets just to join a PI radio team.  🙄  

Just have to keep in mind there are also plenty out there that will happily team with whatever and that is actually the majority in my experience.  

 

Back more to the original topic, personally I'd love for the Ouro system to be improved so that people could join in on flashback arcs in the middle of them.  Then I could run the lower level stuff and freely invite as I went along.   Also, arcs should be set so that everyone on the team for long enough get full rewards (merits and xp).

[Greycat]

... I'm wondering how many "just get to 50" folks are from other MMOs. Unless I'm part of a RPing SG, I think I have a sudden drop in how much I play my 50s when they hit that. I don't care overmuch about incarnate content - it's just... meh (probably because we *did* have to grind it, not to mention the game forcing "The Well" on you.) More often than not, I'll continue a character's story with an alt. Either a shift in powers, an alternate version, something.

 

"Loot" for me isn't necessary. Nice to have, sure, but chasing it just sucks the fun out of things for me. There are other MMOs I could go to if I wanted to grind away mindlessly for the next "thing." And none of it is required.

 

As far as X,Y,Z "sucks, not worth playing, why would you play that?" Well, that's pretty much why I don't have General on any of my tabs (aside from other ignorant and/or vile conversation) - other than that, it's mostly an opinion to be ignored.

[0th Power]

I rarely play my 50s other than my my main

[MTeague]

9 hours ago, Greycat said:

As far as X,Y,Z "sucks, not worth playing, why would you play that?" 

See this is how I get ideas for my alts lol.  "Oh, they're ragging on Trick Arrow today. Okay, Fire Control / Trick Arrow alt coming right up...."

[Greycat]

12 minutes ago, MTeague said:

See this is how I get ideas for my alts lol.  "Oh, they're ragging on Trick Arrow today. Okay, Fire Control / Trick Arrow alt coming right up...."

For a while back on live, I used to do reverse-FOTMs. Ice/Energy blasters a thing? I ran energy/ice. Granted, there aren't really "reverses" of some things (fire/kin controllers,) but it got interesting at times. 

[ImpousVileTerror]

There's a lot I want to unpack from recent posts in this thread and comment on, but I've had a monumentally shitty day at work.  I hope I can find some time to clear my head and focus on these subjects here, but in the meantime . . . 

 

Thank you, @Kraqule, for starting this thread.  Even if your specific approach isn't necessarily something I can agree with as-is, this thread has aired out some subjects which I can't remember seeing being tackled anywhere else.  I hope you don't get discouraged, and continue to share your feedback and ideas.

[Greycat]

16 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

 

 

Thank you, @Kraqule, for starting this thread.  Even if your specific approach isn't necessarily something I can agree with as-is, this thread has aired out some subjects which I can't remember seeing being tackled anywhere else.  I hope you don't get discouraged, and continue to share your feedback and ideas.

Graaaagh! No! Break out the pitches and torchforks! Far and tethers! 

 

🙂