Blaster or Sentinel?

[Hexquisite]

51 minutes ago, Mender Silos said:

In a world where you can be anything, always play the archetype that you enjoy!

Unless you can be a Mender.

Then be a Mender.

Unless you can be a Bender. 

 

Then, always be a Bender.

 

  

[0th Power]

1 hour ago, Hexquisite said:

Unless you can be a Bender. 

 

Then, always be a Bender.

 

 

It’s gonna be fun on the bun.  

[lemming]

I have ten sentinels (five at 50) and eight blasters (five at 50).

More sentinels because I've been playing with the various primaries & secondaries.

Haven't done anything with Archery, Energy, or Ice for primary.

Haven't done anything with Fiery or Ninjitsu for secondary

 

The only thing that threw me was Energy Aura's Sentinel not having Energy Cloak, while Brutes do...

 

I like both.  I can play more careless with my sentinels and my blasters definitely faceplant more anyway.  (That might just be me...)

And they do play different at higher levels.  One difference that showed stuff off well was the Honoree mission for the Alpha Slot.

More of my sentinels did better going solo than blasters did.  (Though easiest solo was my electric/MA blaster)

 

And mostly Generic IOs for both currently.

[Chance Jackson]

18 hours ago, JnEricsonx said:

I've got a couple concepts in my head, one for AR, one for Beam Rifle, and one for Energy Blast.  Any of them could qualify for either AT, but, I've yet to make a Sentinel, so, anyone want to break down that AT in more detail/experience for me?

Sentinel if you want significant survivability without needing to delve into an expensive IOs

 

Blaster if price is no concern & you don't mind the Mez Risk

[Ukase]

As you can see, opinions will vary. 

You have 1000 slots. Make both! 

That said, the Sentinel, while fun for some, is simply an AT that was released too soon. 

Same armor as a scrapper, same status protection...but not the same damage. The rub is, if they had the same damage as a scrapper, why would anyone play a blaster? 

With HC's version of CoH, it's so easy to make a blaster with significant defense and dps, there's really no reason to ever play a sentinel, unless you just like toggles. Worried about mez? Go see p2w, get a defense amplifier when you get your 2xp, assuming you can afford them. 

That's not to say you can't enjoy a Sentinel. You certainly can. My first 50 when I came back to the game was a fire/rad sentinel. I really enjoyed it! I thought the damage was kind of low, but years had passed, and I wasn't really clear at that time how uber blasters had become. HC certainly improved them, for sure. More HP - which took me by surprise. And with my ice blaster, I was surprised to see my Freeze Ray on  my blaster actually dished out moderate damage instead of minor damage. While the Sentinel has a freeze ray -- it's not a hold, it's a sleep. That took me by surprise, too! 

 

So make both. A sentinel is good for a learning player, likely more forgiving. But a blaster is a real hoot, especially once you learn how to build them. 

[drbuzzard]

4 hours ago, Ukase said:

That said, the Sentinel, while fun for some, is simply an AT that was released too soon. 

Same armor as a scrapper, same status protection...but not the same damage. The rub is, if they had the same damage as a scrapper, why would anyone play a blaster? 

Not going to debate most of this. First line, I probably agree with. Second line in factually incorrect. Sentinels are wet with .70 of tanker values for a given armor set (vs. .75 for scrappers). However the sets have been substantially modified on stalkers such that the comparison isn't quite right. For example, every stalker secondary has some power which helps endurance, and many of the sets which they share don't have that. Regen on a stalker (as I mentioned before) is IMO the best version currently in the game. Stalkers do need a tune up, but they are easy to play and fun. They are just a bit short of optimal at endgame. 

[Six-Six]

If you like AR and are quite comfortable with the game, go for a spider. your teammates will love you just for showing up with double leadership buffs. AR+nades (and a few melee attacks) go very well thematically with the AR. 😃

And to further skirt around the Sentinel vs Blaster debate, here are MY experiences with the power sets:

AR/Dev Blaster (L40). AR in general disappoints me. I like the concept, but the power itself seems to lag far behind the other powers in most ATs. The only decent one I've come up with that I can thematically reconcile as well as one strong (and fun) enough for me to reach level 40 on. (I do supplement his attacks with the frag and stun grenades from P2W lady). I haven't tried AR on a Sentinel. 

Beam/SR Sentinel (L50). I think Beam Rifle shines with the Sentinel version more than the blaster because of one power: Refractor Beam. basically the Sent version is a slightly better AoE attacker and the Blaster is a superior ST killer. I've always felt that BR is a bit slow to animate, and the sentinel's Super Reflexes makes up for that slack. I'm trying out another angle to see if the other way will work: slowing things down to your speed--BR/Time Blaster. still too low level to give any feedback.

Energy Blast/Rad Sentinel (L50), EB/Atomic Manip Blaster (L10). Very fun, very stronk. If kb's your thing, that is. It'll be hard to slot for KB-KD until late 30s if you plan to team a lot as KB tends to annoy some people who do their best to herd mobs. Instead of KB-KD, I like to slot mine with Devastation +Chance to hold... works on green??? Hami Mitos as well 😃

and finally, very cosmetic but could be a deal breaker: Beam aims and shoots from the shoulder like a real rifle--very cool. AR shoots from the hip, like a 1940s gangster.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Six Six

[Monos King]

All I can tell you is if you have even a semblance of interest in PvP, roll the blaster.

[Without_Pause]

22 hours ago, Bonkleberry said:

I would vote for Sentinel.

 

On certains teams, a Blaster can go ham, sure. On every team a Sentinel can go ham. I just have no idea where people are getting this notion that Blasters can reach Sentinel level protection for resistances and mez at all times. Maybe if the team composition has a lot of support buffs. You cannot ignore the fact that a Blaster has to be careful not to attract too much aggro against certain enemy groups in certain team comps. A Sentinel has to be less careful and can pretty much pew pew away without fear most of the time.

My level 41 hardcore blaster who survived numerous possible team wipes on Live would like to have a word with you.

 

Go blaster.

 

To add, I finally found a sentinel I like, Fire/ea, and yes, it can be more careless and it feels a bit like an AT for newbies or one for those who want to play more of a suicidal blaster style with less repercussions, but I would still take a blaster over it in the end. You can make a blaster safer due to smart play. You can't say the same for damage and a sentinel.  I have yet to see a team go from point A to B faster than a heavy blaster team when it comes to PUGs.

[Tsuko]

Sentinels are the perfect AT to begin the game and enjoy it : you can have good result with very quick, with no real investment needed.

 

But if you really want to perform (and have like 1 billion infamy to invest) : Blaster.

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 hours ago, Ukase said:

With HC's version of CoH, it's so easy to make a blaster with significant defense and dps, there's really no reason to ever play a sentinel, unless you just like toggles. Worried about mez? Go see p2w, get a defense amplifier when you get your 2xp, assuming you can afford them. 

And here's the major point: They don't call it the pay to win vendor for nothin.

 

This game was a VASTLY different beast back in the day. Trying to solo a blaster then? With no P2W cheat codes in play? Better yet... soloing a Peacebringer to 50 doing content? Holy hells, my bitching on the forums was CONSTANT about how bad Khels sucked at release.

 

Now? Ukase is right. Anyone, on any AT, can get 8 hours at a time of the 3 amplifiers and just like that, none of the old AT specific issues exist anymore. You can imagine what doing so on an AT made for soloing does to "game balance."

 

I've said it before, I'll no doubt say it again, this game was NEVER balanced. Now? Vastly even less so. Doesn't mean it ain't fun. I have more fun with my sentinels than I do my blasters. Yall ain't me, I ain't you. Play them all and figure out which AT works best for your personality.

 

Overall end game performance doesn't mean shit anymore cuz we're all steamrolling everything anyway.

[Haijinx]

Blaster

 

If you don't want to be a blaster .. 

 

Scrapper

[Bill Z Bubba]

Seriously... when the discussion veers into "blasters are ok cuz you can buy temp powers" it just spirals into the ridiculous. By that logic, sents are ok cuz I can craft warburg nukes and be constantly loaded up on base crafted temps. Or defenders or whatever.

 

Temp powers... man, if that's your excuse you have to lean on for "x AT is better than y AT" then your argument sucks.

 

I mean... hell... with all three amplifiers, envenomed daggers and my lore pets, my claws/bio scrapper pylon time is 1:24. That's ludicrous. Cheating to win is no way to look at game balance.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Xanatos]

Nothing wrong with factoring in the P2W buffs. They're part of the game.

[Without_Pause]

9 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Blaster

 

If you don't want to be a blaster .. 

 

Scrapper

Honestly, stalker. The burst damage feels more blaster or at least blapper than what a scrapper does. Yes, a scrapper can do more AoE, but a stalker to me feels more like going up to a mob and picking out what needs to die asap and being able to pull it off in short order. Some stalker builds pull off decent AoE and then there is Elec/shield and the dual ability to not break Hide. .

[Gulbasaur]

3 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Honestly, stalker. The burst damage feels more blaster or at least blapper than what a scrapper does. Yes, a scrapper can do more AoE, but a stalker to me feels more like going up to a mob and picking out what needs to die asap and being able to pull it off in short order. Some stalker builds pull off decent AoE and then there is Elec/shield and the dual ability to not break Hide. .

Yup. With the exception of Titan Weapons, Stalkers come out on top for single target DPS. They're very tanky (not quite at scrapper levels, but let's not pretend you're relying on the last 10% of your health all the time, but also Stalkers have a small AoE fear proc going on so you end up with mezzed enemies anyway) and their ATOs add a huge amount to gameplay.

 

Being able to choose when you crit, having Build Up as a spammable power thanks to the ATO and the Hide proc often letting you crit twice in a row is very, very fun. At L50, I was able to predictably open with a 1k crit, which is very good for boss-destroying, and then get a few more in before the fight is over. 

[DR_Mechano]

As others have mentioned, if you're going AR, go Blaster. Assault Rifle is freaking AWFUL on Sentinels and widely considered one of, if not THE, worst sets on sentinels. It's why if you check the Sentinel section almost nobody is posting AR builds. The Narrowing of the cones, the lower target cap and the lower damage turn an already struggling set on Blaster into a weaksauce set on Sentinel.

 

My first Sentinel was an AR/Invuln and it made me hate sentinels...that's how bad it is...

Edited July 5, 2020 by DR_Mechano

[Coyotedancer]

Agreeing here... AR on Sents needs to be reworked. If you're going for that set, take the Blaster.

 

Otherwise... What's your intention for the character, OP? That's what would drive my own choice. I like Blasters *and* I like Sentinels. (Even though I think some of the damage sets need a balance pass. Fire and DP are fine. Some of the others could use a second look. Poor AR most of all.) Picking one over the other would come down to how I wanted to play them.

 

If the character was going to spend most of their time solo? I'd go for the Sentinel. Even though you CAN build a tough-as-nails Blaster, in my experience Sents just handle that play-style a little better right out of the box. You won't be the king-god of speed and damage, but I'd argue that you really don't NEED to be when you're bouncing through a map alone.

 

If you imagine the character spending every moment of play time with a team? That would tend to say Blaster to me. You'll want the extra damage in order to feel like you're accomplishing something in the midst of an eight-player wrecking-ball and the supports will help with any survivability issues you might have before you get that indestructible UberBuild finished.

[oldskool]

4 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

The Narrowing of the cones

That's not an accurate assessment.   

Sentinel Buckshot and Flamethrower hit fewer targets but their range and arc aren't narrow.  Buckshot has a 30 degree firing arc and Flamethrower has a 45 degree firing arc.  

Sentinel Full Auto has less range (its 80 on other ATs), but it has the wider firing arc (90 degrees vs 20 degrees).  

[oldskool]

On 7/3/2020 at 12:42 AM, JnEricsonx said:

I've got a couple concepts in my head, one for AR, one for Beam Rifle, and one for Energy Blast.  Any of them could qualify for either AT, but, I've yet to make a Sentinel, so, anyone want to break down that AT in more detail/experience for me?

I'm not sure if anyone has really answered the question of "anyone want to break down that AT in more detail/experience for me"?  

 

I've written a number of threads in the Sentinel subforum that will answer a lot of that for you in more detail if you like.  

 

The Sentinel breakdown: 

 

- 0.70 modifier on defensive abilities (from Tanker values)

- Secondary armor sets changed from their Scrapper/Brute/Tanker/Stalker cousins.  Many of these changes are for the better. 

- Primaries changed from Blaster/Corruptor/Defender cousins.  Sentinels have replacements for snipe powers when snipes weren't originally rotational.  Sentinels include damage on crowd control abilities where damage didn't really exist (therefore making them rotational).  Damage values lessened due to lower scalar.  Fire Blast (also Ice) rebalanced from its other AT cousins (it has very large damage gaps when compared to its cousin version; more so than many of the others).  Assault Rifle on Sentinels is more normalized in this paradigm and functions very differently from the other ATs.  So much so it is in a basket all its own.  That's neither a compliment nor is it a criticism.  

- Sentinel inherent is Opportunity which offers some very minor debuffing consistently and spike debuffs after the meter is full.  On top of that debuff there are two additional effects tied directly to the T1 and T2 powers.  The T1 grants a damage effect, and the T2 grants a sustain effect (both health and endurance).  You do not need both effects, but you'd need both powers if you want access to them. 

- The point above may make it seem like there is some player agency removed from the AT.  

- Sentinel Epic/Patron pools have some very powerful effects.  Certainly, there are a few very strong outliers, but in general the offerings there are pretty good.  They're not mandatory, but certainly useful for enterprising builders. 

- Normalized cooldown on T9 powers which sometimes works out of the better (and sometimes it doesn't). 

 

Assault Rifle on Sentinels (And I do in fact have one, and I actually like it) - Replaces the Snipe with Aim, replaces Beanbag with Disorient Shot, replaced Ignite with Incinerator, and Full Auto has multiple changes (increased arc, shorter range, longer cool down, etc.).  Changes shift the set more from being heavily AoE focused into more single-target focused.  Snipe changes dramatically improve the viability of using Sniper Rifle more rotationally.  That change actually hurts the Sentinel redesign which effectively leaves the AT behind. Sentinel AR has a complicated set of powers in order to raises its performance and this compounded by how Opportunity works.  I've gone into depth on this in multiple threads in the Sentinel subforum before, and in speaking with other players.  Pairing AR with a strong secondary can be just fine, but its optimization ceiling can be quite low (a common trend for Sentinels in general).  Prepare to bend over backwards to make this feel stronger if you care at all about optimization.  Then again, if you did care about that you wouldn't be looking at the Sentinel for anything and if you did you'd be more concerned about abusing procs with Dominate.  If that sounds like Greek to you, then just play what you like. 

 

Beam Rifle on Sentinels (I also have one of these; actually played several variations just like AR) - replaces the Snipe with a Chaining AoE attack.  This changes Beam Rifle from being a ST ranged assassin to being a bit more friendly with AoE in both solo and teams.  Of the 3 power sets you listed, this may be one of the best ones to choose for a first time Sentinel.  

 

Energy Blast - replaces the sniper blast, and Power Push does more damage.  Like all Sentinels the target caps are lower.  I actually don't play EB on Sentinel, or any AT for that matter, and currently have no plans to do so.  EB on Sentinels is in a similar boat to AR.  Its damage is a common complaint and EB isn't that much of a top performer (much like AR).  Again, you can use procs and other IO tricks to make this work a bit better if you're willing to do that.  Also, just like AR, if you're really interested in optimization then we wouldn't be talking about this set in the first place.  

 

Can you complete content and contribute in groups with any of those 3?  Of course you can.  The real question is going to be whether you enjoy what the AT offers you or not.  The only way to find out is to roll one and see what it is like for a bit.  

 

Power creep is in favor of the Blaster, but the Sentinel will eventually be changed.  So that pendulum may swing differently in the future or it may not. 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by oldskool

[Haijinx]

13 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Honestly, stalker. The burst damage feels more blaster or at least blapper than what a scrapper does. Yes, a scrapper can do more AoE, but a stalker to me feels more like going up to a mob and picking out what needs to die asap and being able to pull it off in short order. Some stalker builds pull off decent AoE and then there is Elec/shield and the dual ability to not break Hide. .

The main point being - no Sentinel in that decision tree. 

[CaptTastic]

The Blaster v Sentinel debate frustrates me immeasurably, because it’s generalised to the point of making it absolutely meaningless. 
 

Generalising the debate ignores three key premises:

 

1. Not everyone enjoys the same thing

2. Not everyone has the same playstyle

3. Power sets don’t synergise the same across ATs

 

And by ignoring them, the debate replaces them with three entirely wrong, and frankly damaging, premises instead, which are:

 

1. Everyone SHOULD enjoy the same thing

2. Everyone SHOULD have the same playstyle

3. Nuance, and its resultant subjective value across ATs, doesn’t exist

 

I play pretty much exclusively ranged ATs, so have loads of Blasters and Sentinels, and no two blasters are/play the same, so how a sentinel can be tossed in for a direct comparison is absolutely beyond me. Even taking it further: my Fire/NRG (all ranged except for Inferno) is fundamentally different to someone else’s melee-loving blapping Fire/NRG blaster. 
 

So not only is there a broad spectrum of nuance, but nuance within the nuances themselves. Want to melee? Hate to melee? Want to feel able to do both? Hate being mezzed? Don’t care about being mezzed? Love defence? Prefer resists? Maybe layered survivability is important to you? Maybe you don’t give a toss about survivability? Maybe your survivability sweet spot is somewhere in between the two. Even things as trivial as your preferred travel power can strongly influence which sets, ATs, and characters you enjoy. 
 

And let’s not forget concept in all this either. I wanted an all electric character, yet Elec/Elec/Elec blaster turned out to be a completely different feel to Elec/Elec/Elec sentinel. I found the sentinel suited me much better, but only on that particular concept. It didn’t mean sentinels we’re suddenly better than blasters, as evidenced by the fact my fire/fire/fire blaster is far far better than my fire/fire/fire sentinel. 
 

It’s all an absolutely ridiculous debate, hijacked, usually, by people unable to free themselves from a perception that the only factor that should ever be important to anyone is damage. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by CaptTastic

[Haijinx]

Yeah.  But Sentinels Tho. 

[nihilii]

2 hours ago, Haijinx said:

Yeah.  But Sentinels Tho. 

Haij, I'd think you of all people would root for Sentinels, given that they have the best version of Regen.

 

Which means it can be nerfed even harder.

[Apparition]

4 hours ago, CaptTastic said:

It’s all an absolutely ridiculous debate, hijacked, usually, by people unable to free themselves from a perception that the only factor that should ever be important to anyone is damage. 

 

Unfortunately, at endgame, damage is all that's important.  I don't like it, but there's no getting away from it.  And with damage, Blasters win hands down.  It's not even close to a contest.  Now, if you don't like endgame, then sure, pick what you'd like to play.