State of the Project - August 2020

[Darmian]

8 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

This. After years of dealing with them, I really want to grind that Terrorist organization into dust no matter which side I am on.

Longbow =Arachnos.  Ms Liberty ain't too far away in her thinking from Great Uncle Stefan if truth be told. (Well, maybe not = but equivalent to.)

Edited August 24, 2020 by Darmian

[Errants]

16 hours ago, Gulbasaur said:

While I think the ATs are broadly balanced and each has their merits, I really don't like brutes from a design concept. I've whinged about this before, but they took scrapperlock antisocial gameplay and gave it a taunt and more hit points...  which means that you get rewarded with a higher damage bonus for getting into combat with more enemies... on a game with an aggro cap. 

 

"I like the game, but there just isn't enough incentive to kill all your teammates," asked the scrapper. "Do you have anything that rewards horrible gameplay?" 

"Why certain, sir" said the gameplay designers. "Leave the corruptors to deal with three +4 bosses while you herd minions on the other side of the map. Don't worry, support archetypes don't have feelings. Here is a massive damage boost for your troubles." 

 

"Thank you so much! I look forward to the release date!" " said the scrapper and then went back to his colouring in. 

Wow... that's a lot of Critical feelings to air out.

Are you sure you want to start that Scrap of a discussion on the boards? ^_^

[Wavicle]

I kind of think the Brute on HC is now  properly balanced. Slightly lower damage cap, generally Fury caps out around 80 except in extreme situations. Feels more like a tank variant class than before.

[Myrmidon]

11 hours ago, Piecemeal said:

You have to crack a few eggs to make an omelette!

 

[Myrmidon]

13 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

And it’s also worth noting too in the distinction that vigilantes are still considered “heroes” in the generic sense.

 

They aren’t locked out of any blue-side content for being a vigilante (as opposed to Rogues who can visit, but only have radio and tips that turn you Hero available sans teaming).

 

They just have a differing set of priorities (protect the innocent vs. punish the guilty) and both priorities have a role in achieving justice (allowing villains to go entirely unpunished leads to villains feeling there are no consequences for their crimes).

 

The same can be said of Warden and Responsibility; both play a role in trying to protect Praetorian society from its worst excesses. You can see how close they are both in the fact that both are the mission chains available to either faction (where as you MUST be Resistance to take Crusader missions and MUST be Loyalist to take Power missions) and in the moral choices available at the end of each zone arc.

 

Warden moral choices are invariably about protecting individuals (remain Resistance/Warden) vs. protecting society (go Loyalist/Responsibility) while Responsibility moral choices are invariably about protecting society (remain Loyalist) vs. protecting individuals (go Resistance).

 

Honestly, the most interesting thing to me is how it shakes out in the post-Praetorian War arcs; where Responsibility and Warden NPCs end up basically on the same side (and in Paragon City) while you see Crusader and Power NPCs turn up in the Rogue Isles (including generic Crusader mobs joining Arachnos in Recluse’s tower in Grandville).

 

Also telling on the “two sides of the same coin” front is that the final morality choice for Responsibility involves an NPC who basically embodies the “Responsibility” faction in Praetoria deciding to “go Resistance/Warden” on learning Emperor Cole’s true plans.

 

Similarly, even if you remain Loyalist, Marchand (who is Responsibility) urges you to go to Paragon City and be a hero in an effort to avoid the war by proving not all Praetorians are villains (and that going Red will do nothing but empower yourself).

 

Honestly? It makes me wish we actually had two more alignments on Primal Earth... call it a “Red-side Warden”; a hero who protects the innocent in the Rogue Isles while evading the legal authorities (i.e. the utterly corrupt RIP and Arachnos); and a “Blue-side Power”; a self-serving powered person who cares only about their own fame and glory (akin to The Boys).

The way Fury works now, there is no need to leapfrog groups to build it.

[Hottheadliberty]

I personally think the gateway between Blueside and redside is to wide open. as a hero, yes, it's easy to become a villain, you just start being bad. but for a villain to start being a hero... it takes a LOT of work. as far as in game goes i think for a villain to gain access to blueside, it should be a series of story-arcs that you have to complete. The whole process should take several hours if not a couple of days. Doing this would add weight to the decision to switch sides.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[gameboy1234]

On 8/22/2020 at 9:52 AM, Patti said:

Maybe a mutant themed hero group that are reformed outcasts?   Those could be fun to fight.

For more redside groups I'd like to see other villains and heroes to fight.  A long running fight (arc, or multiple arcs) between a hero group or other villain group could be just the thing.  It's be like the Shining Stars except you're fighting them.  There's a few missions like this redside already (Dr. Aeon, he's a villain you fight) but those still feel like mook-fests.  I'd like something with a little different feel.

 

[Chris24601]

2 minutes ago, Hottheadliberty said:

I personally think the gateway between Blueside and redside is to wide open. as a hero, yes, it's easy to become a villain, you just start being bad. but for a villain to start being a hero... it takes a LOT of work. as far as in game goes i think for a villain to gain access to blueside, it should be a series of story-arcs that you have to complete. The whole process should take several hours if not a couple of days. Doing this would add weight to the decision to switch sides.

To be fair; on live it used to take 22 missions over 4 real world days (plus grinding for the 5-6 tips per day) in order to go from villain to hero.

 

The Null the Gull and unlimited tips per day were added mainly due to low population numbers on the SCoRE servers and were maintained on Homecoming.

 

I don't mind the tip mission requirement for alignment change from rogue to hero, though I do appreciate Null being able to set my initial Red-side alignment to Rogue as that much better reflects how I play my toons even if it doesn't actually have a mechanical effect until level 20+.

 

I WOULD mind if unlimited tips per day were taken away as the Rogue tip missions are about the only thing I can stand in terms of post-35-ish Red-side content (after I'm done with Hardcase in St. Martial it gets really hard to find Rogue-friendly story arcs outside of those tips so a cap at 5 per day means I'd just definitely take all my toons Blue at that point rather than keep one Rogue intact to help out some friends who are playing through Red-side; I'd Null one hero to Vigilante before any such change went live and that's what my friends who are trying out Redside would be stuck with once we hit level 35).

 

I don't think I can stress how unpleasant I find playing villains. I can tolerate Rogues by limiting myself to a curated list of story arcs and Rogue tip missions (doing 10 Rogue to Hero missions, then 10 Rogue missions and the Rogue confirmation mission helps break up the monotony a bit)... but that's the extent of my ability to enjoy Redside.

 

Which is why I suggested the notion of "Red-side Heroes" as about the only thing that would keep me Redside... I'll do "fighting for justice in a corrupt society" (that's the draw of Praetoria for me... just wish it continued past level 20 without the hard reboot of narrative direction with First/Night Ward).

 

[Bionic_Flea]

59 minutes ago, Hottheadliberty said:

I personally think the gateway between Blueside and redside is to wide open. as a hero, yes, it's easy to become a villain, you just start being bad. but for a villain to start being a hero... it takes a LOT of work. as far as in game goes i think for a villain to gain access to blueside, it should be a series of story-arcs that you have to complete. The whole process should take several hours if not a couple of days. Doing this would add weight to the decision to switch sides.

Yeah, that already exists in Alignment missions (https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Alignment_Mission)

 

It's just that Null the Gull eliminated the need to run them, but you can if you like that approach, and I certainly encourage anyone who hasn't to run those arcs just for the sake of getting new content!

 

57 minutes ago, gameboy1234 said:

A long running fight (arc, or multiple arcs) between a hero group or other villain group could be just the thing.  It's be like the Shining Stars except you're fighting them.

Dr. Graves "Hearts of Darkness" arc would be the equivalent to Shining Stars.  Also worthy of playing if you haven't.  It's one of the few arcs that actually had a plot twist I didn't see from a mile away. 

Spoiler

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Dr._Graves#Story_Arc

 

[BurtHutt]

On 8/24/2020 at 6:34 AM, Myrmidon said:

This. After years of dealing with them, I really want to grind that Terrorist organization into dust no matter which side I am on.

I think this and then some! We've seen the same factions, enemies etc for YEARS. It's time to stop adding content that heavily involves the old stuff. Let's put a new coat of paint on this thang!

[Patti]

New stuff in the story also protects everyone from being accused of ruining the existing lore.

[Wavicle]

Most of what they add is going to have to use existing resources and art assets. That’s just the reality. It’s a tiny volunteer Dev team.

[BurtHutt]

Just now, Wavicle said:

Most of what they add is going to have to use existing resources and art assets. That’s just the reality. It’s a tiny volunteer Dev team.

Yes and no. I can see the need to cycle a lot of the old maps but they can make new characters and factions - that is not a reach. New lore and story would also be great and essential if you're adding new. I'll say again, some of us are really into volunteering and helping out. I look at all the stuff added on Thunderspy server...we can do this and more! 

[Patti]

We can see from piecemeal stuff here that new faction is at least possible with patchwork freakghouls.

[Darmian]

6 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

Yes and no. I can see the need to cycle a lot of the old maps but they can make new characters and factions - that is not a reach. New lore and story would also be great and essential if you're adding new. I'll say again, some of us are really into volunteering and helping out. I look at all the stuff added on Thunderspy server...we can do this and more! 

And what stuff storywise is that?

[Hops4]

13 hours ago, Darmian said:

And what stuff storywise is that?

Probably some real good stuff

[csr]

On 8/24/2020 at 7:28 AM, parabola said:

This is the most irritating thing in high level play. Drives me absolutely nuts. To be fair to brutes though it isn't just they who are guilty of this. I think it has a lot to do with people playing any AT building almost exclusively for aoe performance and then finding they lack the ability to down bosses in a satisfying manner. Ironically the best teammate at high levels could be a single target focused stalker who is prepared to do the hard yards against the +4 bosses.

 

What really grinds my gears is when people are so stuck in the 'all aoe, all the time' mindset that they can't vary their play when required. Fighting +4 nemesis bosses is hard enough without stacking vengeance multiple times on them because some idiot couldn't resist burning the rest of the spawn to the ground.

I wish I could "Like" this twice... or thrice.

 

[Edit]:

Maybe Nemmy Vengeance should put massive aggro for all affected onto the one who defeated the Lt.

Edited August 26, 2020 by csr
Added comment

[Rejolt]

(Snip) 

 

Wow, I need to read which page I’m on better. 
 

Removed my wall of text. Wouldn’t mind a permanent Flames of Prometheus being the specific reason to run the original 4 red side SFs

Edited August 27, 2020 by Rejolt

[Zhym]

This all sounds pretty exciting.

 

One request from a security paranoid Mac user.  Could you test the new launcher to make sure it works on an account that doesn't have admin rights?  It took me a while to get Island Rum working that way, and I have a sneaking supicion that any upgrade process for the new launcher is likely to freak out, run into a corner, and cry if it doesn't have full admin access to everything.

 

Thanks!

[LQT]

On 8/23/2020 at 6:47 AM, Wavicle said:

This is from paragonwiki

Paragonwiki is years out of date as well as flat out wrong in places from before the game even shutdown. For example it doesn't include info from later dialogue options from Prometheus regarding Ascension.

 

Additionally those paragraphs are all pre-play descriptions/advertisements of what the factions are meant to be like.

The actual content of the factions vaguely aligns with those brief bios but very often there are actual events that occur which you would expect to be from the opposite side of the alignment division

Crusaders repeatedly bomb civilian targets. This isn't in the brochure for obvious reasons. These aren't Cole aligned civilians but quite literally just random residents of Imperial City and Nova Praetoria that have nothing to do with either the Administration or the Resistance. Nova Praetoria has attempts to bomb a hospital. Imperial City has attempts to bomb most of the island underground in addition to setting off a Neutron bomb on Nova Praetoria that would kill every single living thing there.
 

On 8/23/2020 at 7:59 PM, Patti said:

The wiki is also unofficial so hgrain of salt and all that.

 

Also years out of date and wrong in places even when the game was live.

There is at least a new fork where users are attempting to update and fix various mistakes including those that existed on live/PW, [Look up Reactive Def 2 set bonuses for such an example. Beta/test notes were a DEF bonus which was never updated on PW after the live released ended up going with a RES bonus instead].

https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Main_Page

[ivanhedgehog]

On 8/15/2020 at 12:56 PM, Jimmy said:

This was discussed quite a bit a few months ago. This covers it a bit too.

 

I'm not sure you've got the right picture of what's going on here. This isn't a big, organised development team - not yet anyway. It's a few crazy people doing stuff in their few spare hours, trying to make the most of very limited time and resources. Need to set your expectations accordingly.

Its time to go out and start abducting developers....oops scratch that recruiting developers to join the cult of homecoming and work day and night on only one yougurt a day!!!!

[Jimmy]

31 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

...on only one yougurt a day!!!!

Hang on, we're meant to get yogurt?

[GM Crumpet]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Hang on, we're meant to get yogurt?

This yoghurt is delicious. Oops, sorry Jimmy was this one yours?

[Tacheyon]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Hang on, we're meant to get yogurt?

Lone Starr: Who hasn't heard of Yogurt!

Princess Vespa: Yogurt the Wise!

Dot Matrix: Yogurt the All-Powerful!

Barf: Yogurt the Magnificent!

Yogurt: Please, please, don't make a fuss. I'm just plain Yogurt.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Tacheyon
Formatting

[Bionic_Flea]

Use the Schwartz, Luke!