Homecoming Community

[Saikochoro]

I’ve been thinking of making this thread for quite a while now. I’ve started the thread multiple times and then have always ended up deleting it because I psych myself out. The reason is because I could see it becoming fairly heated fairly fast and turn into something I didn’t intend. Well here goes again, maybe I won’t delete it this time. 
 

Disclaimer: all of this is my opinion based on my experience. I understand that other people have different experience and different opinions. 
 

The community of CoH, and now Homecoming, has often been hailed as one of the most friendly and helpful communities of any game.  There have also been comments that counter this stance. I want to share my experience and opinion. 
 

First, a little background. I have been actively involved in the following gaming forum communities. Prior to Swtor I didn’t really actively participate in gaming communities outside of in game communications. 

-Swtor: active for years, not active since 5.0. 
-Guild Wars 2 - fairly active for 2 years, no longer active. 
-Destiny 2 - not an active poster, but an avid reader. No longer active. 
-Overwatch - active for a few years now. Still active. 
-Homecoming - active since the resurgence. I wasn’t active in the pre-snap forums, but I did play the game for years.

 

Having been part of these communities I can say without hesitation that the homecoming community is indeed, BY FAR, the most decent, respectful, welcoming, and helpful community I have participated in. I understand that other communities may be better that I haven’t experienced, but out of the ones I have, it is no contest. 
 

Is there still toxicity in the community? Yes, on occasion there is toxicity. There are plenty of heated arguments. Sometimes mods have to remove content and lock threads.  However, in general people in this community seem to be quicker and more willing to apologize to or at least understand other members of the community.

 

I’m going to compare homecoming to the only other gaming community I am actively participating in - Overwatch. I really enjoy the game overwatch, but to be honest, the community of overwatch disgusts me. I usually spend all of 5-10 minutes on those forums before I have to stop and switch back to Homecoming.
 

Almost every single thread in that forum gets overrun by toxicity. People don’t even attempt to understand each other or the devs.  Pretty much every form of insult you can think of happens regularly (every day) in that community.  I have often thought about quitting Overwatch purely because of how toxic the community is. Don’t even get me started on in game communications. If I posted even the more “mild” stuff I see/hear every single time I play overwatch I’d likely get banned on these boards. I’m not saying the Overwatch community is ALL bad, but overall it is so full of toxicity that it can be hard to focus on the good.  I do appreciate the good people in that community and the few threads that stay on track, but they seem to be getting more and more rare. 

Contrast this with Homecoming. People are gushing advice to anyone and everyone that asks for it. Sometimes the manner in which advice is given can be questionable, but there is no denying how helpful the community is.  I have seen many arguments on these board that instead of going further get halted in their tracks by an apology or by sudden understanding. People give out influence and other items to other players seemingly every day.

 

Many people, myself included, have experienced the crushing feeling of the accidental extra zero or two when purchasing something on the market.  And yet, often times others try to help out when this happens without being asked. I remember logging into AP one day pretty early on in the resurgence last year and some level 50 opened up a trade window. I accepted and he gave me 10m influence. I was flabbergasted. That was probably 10 times more than I had ever had up to that point. These types of things happen often. 
 

Think of the number of guides that have been written in this community. Think of all the builds that people make and share with each other.  The archetype boards are chalk full of help and gratitude. Think of even the hard things like all the support in the “Fallen, but not Forgotten” board.  People on these boards, in general, seem so quick to help others succeed. They seem more willing to understand and at least agree to disagree. They are much more respectful in game and on the forums. 
 

I know it’s not all cupcakes and rainbows on these boards. Thinking back to some heated debates on this forum I think of some recent beta feedback for i27. I also think of the double xp influence nerf, Rage nerf, and DFB nerfs (I know there are others). Yes, there was definitely some heated debate and insults thrown around. There was definitely hard feelings and resentment. I’m not denying that this happens in this community. But even at its worst, it is better than a good day on the overwatch forums.
 

I’m not really sure why homecoming behaves so much better. Perhaps it is just an older community. Though adults can be just as unreasonable as teenagers, so I’m not sure about that. Maybe it’s simply because the community is really small. Maybe it’s because there is overall an attitude of gratitude for what we got back rather than rampant entitlement and “what about me” attitude that fills overwatch. I really don’t have an answer. What I can say, with surety, is that the Homecoming community is the best community of which I have been part.

 

The main reason I wanted to post this is to say a HUGE thank you to all of you, and the devs, for helping to foster a respectful and helpful community. A thank you even to all the people I have argued with recently or in the past on these boards. Even the arguments are polite and respectful comparative to other forums I have participated in. Thank you for making this community a place I enjoy participating in rather than one that disgusts me and leaves me disappointed with the human race. 

[Greycat]

No we aren't!

You're wrong!

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

 

*stomps off.*

 

 

 

🙂

[Snarky]

hmmmm, are you still writing?  sheesh.  i dont know.  i rad the first few sentences....then...

 

 

lol, no seriously.  you have a decent post.  i am prob specifically not one of the people you are thanking.  still i am also glad to be a part of the City of Villains world

[Mezmera]

All in all I think it's a great community.  A lot of people lost something they loved and never figured it'd be back so I think some of the good vibe stems from just being able to play again.  I pretty much enjoy all aspects of the community, from the hardcore statisticians to the rp'ers and even the trolls for the most part.   I mean pretty much the only thing that irks me is when some more "authoritative" people start to ramble on about how much they know because they were in closed beta back in the 90's.  Even then though some of their perspective I've found helpful so I'll usually stick to my guns but also keep an open mind that there may be broader perceptions that I might not have seen.  

 

I'm glad the game isn't in corporate hands anymore and in more caring control.  Although, I don't like at all how the closed testing for i27 went on for so long without any mentioning months prior to engage in any discussion.  Really my disappointment stemmed from the fact that most people care about the game that could be trusted some to have a good discussion about the state of the game prior to a bunch of implemented things because as you say it's a pretty reasonable community.  Just about everyone cares about the game that is still around so a bit more dialogue I'd hope for in the future with tempered expectations on all sides.  So far I like what the team has done with their version and hope to see greater things to come!

Edited December 19, 2020 by Mezmera

[Grouchybeast]

Honestly, I don't find the HC community to be all that much different to the Live community -- still mostly kind and helpful, and generally happy to play and let play, as it were.  I sometimes wish the old forums were easily accessible so I could check if it's just rose-tinted nostalgia that makes it seem like that,

[merrypessimist]

Is this where I put the obligatory "No U?!"  I forget since it's been a while.  :)

[Saikochoro]

37 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Honestly, I don't find the HC community to be all that much different to the Live community -- still mostly kind and helpful, and generally happy to play and let play, as it were.  I sometimes wish the old forums were easily accessible so I could check if it's just rose-tinted nostalgia that makes it seem like that,

I can’t really comment on the old live community as I didn’t participate on the forums back then. So my views are solely based on homecoming comparative to other gaming communities I have experience in. 

[CrudeVileTerror]

Here, @merrypessimist.

 

I'd say "use it wisely," but . . . is that even possible?

 

 

 

 

On topic as to why the City of Heroes community is the way it is:  I believe two elements of the game itself are significant contributing factors:

- It's a cooperative game with very few competitive elements (and those competitive elements are generally more a matter of "I'll win one, then you win one" instead of "I win, and you lose").

- There is a relative abundance of in-game "wealth" and an assortment of incentives to make multiple characters, but sharing with other players is so easy and doesn't necessarily feel burdensome to the person doing the giving.  If Inf were tighter or Enhancements more rare, then I suspect people would be more determined to be insular and hoard.  Sharing (and sharing freely without provocation) is a HUGE contributing factor to a cheerful temperament.

 

That's why I feel these two gameplay elements need to be preserved and fostered.

[Latex]

Overwatch is toxic because it's a competitive game, competitive nature breeds harsher opinions, I'd challenge you to name a competitive game that isn't toxic. DPS/Raidlogs made PvE WoW toxic, GW2's WvW is toxic, it's just human nature but there are tools to remove it from your line of sight.

 

City of Heroes is a weird spot, nothing in the game deters you from grouping with others or being competitive. Even the PvP is... eh, on live Sirens Call was the place to be or RV and only regulars went there. The advent of 'quick queues' in modern MMO's killed a lot of kindness in community's.

[Luminara]

A video game originally designed to allow players to vicariously experience being a superhero was always going to appeal to a specific subset of the population.  Guardians of the peace.  Defenders of justice.  Protectors of the innocent.  Promoters of equality.  It stands to reason that the forums would reflect that.

[CrudeVileTerror]

Then why are the villains consistently the nicest players, eh @Luminara?  Eh?   Huh?  EH!  Answer me that!

*grips the world in a massive tentacle*

 

[Sir Myshkin]

3 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

  I sometimes wish the old forums were easily accessible so I could check if it's just rose-tinted nostalgia that makes it seem like that

You be the judge 🙂 

 

Took a minute to find the last archive link, hopefully that works correctly.

[Luminara]

26 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

Then why are the villains consistently the nicest players, eh @Luminara?  Eh?   Huh?  EH!  Answer me that!

 

The writing is supposedly better on the other side, so people play villains.  That doesn't make them villains, or villainous, merely discerning.

 

Also, I play heroes, and I'm nice.

 

Ish.

 

Look, my cats like me, so shut up.  😛

[CrudeVileTerror]

Ah, but don't you see?

Cats only like the truly evil amoung us!

Why do you think all those evil mastermind geniuses have loyal kitties on their laps?

 

I rest my case.

[Latex]

The thing that City of Heroes fell prey to on live was cliques especially in the RP scene, it was the worst out of any community I've been part of, you needed a proverbial crowbar to get involved as an unknown.

 

I bore witness to a lot of backstabbing and bullshit in multiple SG's I've been in on live. I haven't settled into one on Homecoming but back then insulting character concepts in a subtle way or calling out character tropes in derogatory tones were top of the list. City of Heroes players are no different to any other MMO player in my experience but City of Heroes is designed in such a way that there is less of it in the open.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Latex

[CrudeVileTerror]

Yeah, I'll certainly concede that there's plenty of insular and clique'y roleplay groups.

But, to do a little advocacy, I understand that people have different interests and expectations as far as tone, genre, content, and format are concerned in roleplay.  There's also a time limit, so people can get choosy about who they spend their time with.   When you find someone you connect with effectively, you may become risk adverse in regard to the development of new relations.

None of that excuses pettiness, bullying, or other hostility, of course.

 

 

[LiquidBandage]

10 hours ago, Saikochoro said:

I’ve been thinking of making this thread for quite a while now.
 

<snip>

 

The main reason I wanted to post this is to say a HUGE thank you to all of you, and the devs, for helping to foster a respectful and helpful community. A thank you even to all the people I have argued with recently or in the past on these boards. Even the arguments are polite and respectful comparative to other forums I have participated in. Thank you for making this community a place I enjoy participating in rather than one that disgusts me and leaves me disappointed with the human race. 

Next time, lead off with the reason for the post at the beginning. 

[Clave Dark 5]

8 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

I sometimes wish the old forums were easily accessible so I could check if it's just rose-tinted nostalgia that makes it seem like that,

It's s shared pair of rose-tinted glasses, if so, because that's how I remember things too.  (0% of the time it was great, and angry or mean posters didn't last long for whatever reason (I recall seeing a few identifiable ones over on the Champions Online forum when that game was just starting up).

[nihilii]

13 hours ago, Saikochoro said:

I’m not really sure why homecoming behaves so much better. Perhaps it is just an older community. Though adults can be just as unreasonable as teenagers, so I’m not sure about that. Maybe it’s simply because the community is really small. Maybe it’s because there is overall an attitude of gratitude for what we got back rather than rampant entitlement and “what about me” attitude that fills overwatch.

I might be projecting my own passion for systems here, but I think game design deserves credit.

CoH is a game designed from the ground up to be cooperative and creative. There has been constant efforts to minimize friction between the player and these goals.

It's the subtle things like getting xp/inf multipliers when teaming, but not being FORCED to team. Which creates an accessible experience, where everyone is welcome but nobody is needed.

 

Many other games are seemingly cooperative but actually adversarial. You'd assume a PvE game can't be competitive; but if you have strict roles for classes, and hard skill floors to complete tasks, then there is competition. Between you and your teammates, between you and people from the same class for a spot on the team, between you and the entire playerbase. Meta builds everyone is expected to use are soon to follow.

CoH isn't void of competition either, but the pressure is low enough you are free to completely ignore competitive aspects and play your own way. And you're not relegated to be an outcast by doing that, either, as plenty of players will be happy to have you on their team, including power players (if only because they've got to flex their shiny minmax builds somehow 😉 ).

I agree with @Grouchybeast the Homecoming community doesn't seem too different from Live. But I also agree with your point. We're 10 years older, less likely to yell at each other for stupid stuff.

Edited December 19, 2020 by nihilii

[Grouchybeast]

7 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

You be the judge 🙂 

 

Took a minute to find the last archive link, hopefully that works correctly.

The key word is easily accessible.  The search is broken so it's basically impossible to find anything.  Scrolling back through pages of people being sad about the shutdown just depresses me.

[Parabola]

I agree that game mechanics have a huge part to play in this. No competitive drop tables and all that sort of nonsense for example. For all that I am a proponent of reducing power creep and the importance of keeping AT roles distinct I'd hate to see rigid trinity play or any kind of 'powergamer required' mechanics. The massive strength of this game to me is that anyone should be able to team with anyone and have a good experience. The areas of the game I am most uncomfortable with challenge this; the strength of incarnate powers for example.

 

I would say though that although the forum community remains for the most part as friendly, respectful and knowledgeable as it was on live I have noticed something of a change. It feels to me that the background of the intensely polarised world we live in has bled into the forums a little. The tone of discourse and disagreement in the outside world has become markedly more toxic over the years and I do see hints of that here and there on the forums.

 

In a few of the debates I have been involved with I have looked at what some people have been saying (and not saying) and I can tell they see the world very differently to me. We may be discussing the mechanics of a computer game about superheroes but peoples broader beliefs tend to show through (doubtless mine do). One area in particular that this manifests itself is collectivism vs individualism.

 

Given the toxicity of these issues in the real world and the havoc that is causing it is a testament to the strength of this community and it's love for this game that we keep them out as much as we do. We should always try to remember that we each see the world through our own lens and it looks different to other people who have lived different lives. Opinions are simply opinions no matter how strongly held, they aren't facts. We should also remember that behind every keyboard is a person and how we talk to each other really matters.

[The_Warpact]

I look at it this way, I started this game along time ago, how long I dont know, but, a long time.

 

I made friends back then that I still run with now.

I have played many games over the years and other mmo's and not one of them have I made the long standing friends I have today.

Plus, its real friendship where we talk about our personal lives, know our spouses and children's names, and actually are invested in our friendship. 

 

What other game can do that? 

[Ironblade]

On 12/18/2020 at 7:37 PM, Saikochoro said:

I can’t really comment on the old live community as I didn’t participate on the forums back then. So my views are solely based on homecoming comparative to other gaming communities I have experience in. 

I was super active back when the game was live and agree with Grouchybeast, the community was very good back then also.

 

On 12/18/2020 at 8:22 PM, CrudeVileTerror said:

On topic as to why the City of Heroes community is the way it is:  I believe two elements of the game itself are significant contributing factors:

- It's a cooperative game with very few competitive elements (and those competitive elements are generally more a matter of "I'll win one, then you win one" instead of "I win, and you lose").

- There is a relative abundance of in-game "wealth" and an assortment of incentives to make multiple characters, but sharing with other players is so easy and doesn't necessarily feel burdensome to the person doing the giving.

I think another factor is the player base.  The player base of loot shooters is mostly male and late teens / early 20's.  Even back on live, CoH players were almost 50% female and the average age was in the 30's.  NOW, many of the players are even older, but the average might not be higher since they are now introducing their children to the game - making the atmosphere even more 'family friendly'.

 

And I do think it's your first point, about the game being cooperative, that resulted in the age/gender numbers being so different from other games.

 

[Ironblade]

On 12/19/2020 at 9:01 AM, The_Warpact said:

I made friends back then that I still run with now.

I have played many games over the years and other mmo's and not one of them have I made the long standing friends I have today.

Plus, its real friendship where we talk about our personal lives, know our spouses and children's names, and actually are invested in our friendship.

I met my girlfriend in CoH, whom I live with now.

Plus we have a number of mutual friends from the game who we meet regularly for dinner.

[Patti]

Yes.  The game being easy to Access helps bring people like me who don't like to fight or argue or compete.  We just want to team up and work together for a good time.  Never any need to fight people and be mean, ever.