Hot Take: DIY!

[Luminara]

18 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I was going to ask what a Mora was, but then I realized.  It's when the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie.

 

7 minutes ago, BZRKR said:

Oh sure, I'm sure anyone could survive if they had 600 Spartans along...😁

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mora)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mora_knife

[Nemu]

You can always choose not to interact with the beggars. Besides the "inf no problem build plz," posts, I also ignore posts like "I suck at builds so I need a build" or "I need a build cuz there are none posted" and I see the same discussion on the build a few posts down. I don't feel inclined to help those people that aren't willing to put in any effort, and it's not hard to spot the repeat offenders.

 

That's not to say that I'm going to call them out and nag about it though. My not interacting with them doesn't interfere with their ability to do whatever they want to do nor my ability to enjoy my game. 

 

However I am concerned about the lurkers. I think there are a lot more lurkers than beggars that actually scour the forums and copy builds, I see quite a few necro posts commenting on builds for followup. Some people do the work but they are too shy to ask for help. And if they piggyback on a beggar post and copy a shitty build and perpetuate that as a "good build" to their peers then that to me is a problem. For example I see builds inspired by fire farming templates that gets billed as general content builds. Another common example are those builds that skip key powers or take them very late in game progression, which is not a good fit for a leveling build or a build that plans to exemp down for content.

 

I also know for a fact that some lurkers are quite capable of making builds, and they just need a little help to fine tune them. Examples below:

 

Beam/TA build needs yours assistance - Blaster - Homecoming (homecomingservers.com)

 

Help me fix this mess (Beam/Temp) - Blaster - Homecoming (homecomingservers.com)

 

So here is a call to action for the lurkers that feel they need a bit more help after scouring the forums: Just like anything else in life, raises for example, if you don't ask you will never get it. So ask. But make sure you ask nuanced questions with specific goals, the devil is in the details.

 

Protip - if you see any build with multiple full 6 slotted purple sets that should give you pause. People that build like that most likely do not have very optimized builds. You can certainly use such a build as a template, tweek it/post it and ask for additional feedback (Is this build good? I'm looking to do XYZ, is it a good fit? can it be better?). Even that little bit shows effort and you are more likely to get real help from legit build experts.

 

And to the people helping, explain the why, please. Don't just throw up a build without context. Do that not just for the OP but for the lurkers.

 

I understand some people can't use mids, but they can still ask for help, and they can still ask in a way that shows that they put in some effort. If someone presented a google spreadsheet on a post asking for help that absolutely incentivizes me to help them make the best build possible based on their requirements.

[JJDrakken]

Or DIY Here:

 😛  Mind you starting at page 1, will show you very old builds. Things have changed since then with updates, etc..  But I don't mind helping those who seek help.

[Songseven]

9 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

I am, in fact, arrogant and petty. 😏

 

 

would of made a far better title!

[Luminara]

7 minutes ago, Songseven said:

would of

 

🙄

[Songseven]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

🙄

oh the irony...

[Aurora_Girl]

So, here's a good example of what we're looking at:

 

Message 1: I gave it a shot!

Message 2: Do it for me and I willingly chose to not give it a shot myself!

[Aurora_Girl]

Also not gonna soapbox on the "blasters need to have scrapper-level survivability and Mez protection to be tolerable" thing. 

[ZemX]

That guy is paying?  Sweet!  I bet I can get someone to just give me the build, turn around, and sell it to that guy!

[Aurora_Girl]

That was the part that reallt struck me as straight up dumb. Pay what exactly? 😂 I'll charge 199M and an additional 50M for subsequent edits. 

[Hyperstrike]

On 9/27/2021 at 9:16 AM, dangeraaron10 said:

You guys ever consider that people who don't know how to build use that as an ice breaker to interact with the community?

 

No?

 

Keep being passive aggressive.  I'm sure that'll breed a happy, helpful community people actually want to join.

Take me.  Before I learned about Mids, Hyperstrike went for over 13 levels with ZERO ENHANCEMENTS (possibly as many as 16, I don't remember)!

Also, I'd done all the humorous things ignorant people do.

Six slotted brawl.
Left all attacks single slotted while "filling up" armors .

What?  Pay attention in the Tutorial?  DON'T BE SILLY!

And dear freaking Tankers!  My first attemptS at Terra Volta were was a horrendous series of frantic, angry kicks to the nuts by a dedicated crowd wearing spiked taser boots.

If I can help people avoid that kind of play experience, and give them the survivability and time to begin UNDERSTANDING what makes these builds tick, I count that as a win.

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Also not gonna soapbox on the "blasters need to have scrapper-level survivability and Mez protection to be tolerable" thing. 

 

I'd be happy with just SOME mez protection. Otherwise, meh, I'll build a sentinel and deal with the lower damage. I hate faceplanting.

[Ignatz the Insane]

I guess I'm in the minority here.  Kinda makes me sad.  I'd rather err on the side of empathy as opposed to many of the responses in this thread.  One thing most of the posters asking for build advice, no matter the wording used, they're players with low post counts.  New to the forums.  If their first encounter with the forums, no matter how misguided they are, is met with silence or worse, they're unlikely to continue coming here.  And more unlkely to continue playing.  I'd advise patience and understanding personally.  

[biostem]

58 minutes ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

I guess I'm in the minority here.  Kinda makes me sad.  I'd rather err on the side of empathy as opposed to many of the responses in this thread.  One thing most of the posters asking for build advice, no matter the wording used, they're players with low post counts.  New to the forums.  If their first encounter with the forums, no matter how misguided they are, is met with silence or worse, they're unlikely to continue coming here.  And more unlkely to continue playing.  I'd advise patience and understanding personally.  

Perhaps I misunderstood something, here, but my reading of the OP is that they're saying players should NOT come here asking for builds, and instead create their own build as they go.  In turn, my interpretation of the responses is that many are saying that people should be free to ask for help with their builds, or to outright request an entire build.  It seems to me that the OP is the one saying you shouldn't come here asking for help with your character, and just "wing it" as you go...

[Ignatz the Insane]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

Perhaps I misunderstood something, here, but my reading of the OP is that they're saying players should NOT come here asking for builds, and instead create their own build as they go.  In turn, my interpretation of the responses is that many are saying that people should be free to ask for help with their builds, or to outright request an entire build.  It seems to me that the OP is the one saying you shouldn't come here asking for help with your character, and just "wing it" as you go...

I don't think you've misunderstood anything.  That's indeed what the OP and others are saying.  But the reality is players will continue to ask for builds regardless of this thread.  My problem is the OP and many others in this thread treat those players as 'lazy' or worse.  Perhaps they're right in some cases.  I maintain that most of the posters asking for builds are new to the forums.  They need guidance rather than silence or disparagement.  I'd rather make an attempt at educating and growing the population than letting them fall by the wayside.  As I said earlier, it's hard.  Many of the new posters seem both oblivious and entitled.  I get that.  But give them a chance to grow.

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

I don't think you've misunderstood anything.  That's indeed what the OP and others are saying.  But the reality is players will continue to ask for builds regardless of this thread.  My problem is the OP and many others in this thread treat those players as 'lazy' or worse.  Perhaps they're right in some cases.  I maintain that most of the posters asking for builds are new to the forums.  They need guidance rather than silence or disparagement.  I'd rather make an attempt at educating and growing the population than letting them fall by the wayside.  As I said earlier, it's hard.  Many of the new posters seem both oblivious and entitled.  I get that.  But give them a chance to grow.

 

At the risk of sounding like a Twitterina it's privilege.

 

We do things we don't think are difficult for us and don't understand how it is not the same for others. We conveniently forget (or time softened the edges) of how long it took to become good. And that we had to be interested in it to begin with. And the hours we struggled until we became decent.

 

Yes, anyone can learn how to put a build together. But, does everyone want to put all the hours needed into it? Anyone can do anything. Learn martial arts? Learn how to fix their car? Learn to knit.

 

But to begin with are they even interested? I have the time to learn knitting if I wanted. I have no interest in learning knitting. It does not mean I don't like some cozy mittens for winter. Maybe I should learn how to knit then? No, still not interested, I'll just buy them.

 

Conveniently it is forgotten or downplayed, what an incredible number of IO sets are in game, how each set has six bonuses EACH, how some powers take some sets but not others. It takes a long time to get into this. At least a month and I say it as someone puttering with builds, looking up, and seeing that it ate 8 RL hours of my time. What privilege assuming everyone has interest in spending hours playing Tetris with bonuses. And that magically doing it will improve their enjoyment of the game? Or ability to play it.

 

 

This whole argument is so disconnected with reality. People liking good food and going to the restaurant meeting that lone person waving a protest sign outside: LEARN HOW TO COOK! YOU WILL APPRECIATE FOOD MORE!

[SmalltalkJava]

Making build sucks, and I think a lot of people think it probably sucks, I don't know what percentage of people feel that way, but I do know that at least My percentage portion feels that way.  I find it extremely tedious and monotonous.  Oh my god, I find it so damn boring and it takes so damn long, I'm surprised it doesn't just chase people away from the game and drive the population into the ground.  I love talking about them though, what makes them tick, what may or may not work well, etc,..   Sure, I make builds, but damn it really sucks a lot of fun out of the game.  Making my own build doesn't make me appreciate playing my character any more than playing a character that uses someone else's build that was posted for the community to use.  Others may like using their own builds over someone else's, and good for them!  That's their cup of tea man!  

 

I love it when people post there builds, to me it is like they hung up a piece of art in a museum.   So as far as I'm concerned let's decorate the museum with works of art.  I love telling people that I'm using @Sovera's brunker build, or one of @Sir Myshkin's proc builds or @DreadShinobi's kin/rad defender build or one of the many others that I've taken from the forums.   As for build that I create, I will post every single build that I make if as long as I think it is mostly coherent.  I do this for one single purpose, so people can at Least use it as a start point.  Finding a build on the forums and then cracking it open to look and seeing it is really cool and I feel a lot of appreciation for every single one that is out there.

 

I wish someone took requests for builds that where I could say,  I want a build for an x/y archetype, that uses procs in these certain skills, and have 95% hit chance against +4 mobs,  and can use hover and fly and get the s/l defense as high as you can get it.  or at least resists as high as you can get it.   We can talk about about what you think valid options would be, we can then talk about what may or may not work. 

 

So let's decorate the museum.

 

 

 

[Mopery]

Making builds is time consuming, time better spent actually playing the game.

 

It takes a metric buttload of experience to understand what powers to choose, what sets to slot where, and why you slot those powers the way you do. After making many dozens of builds, and playing most of them, I have developed certain idiosyncrasies in my builds. Sometimes I can't fit everything I want into a build, and it may be difficult to explain to anyone else why I have built the way I do, but to me it makes perfect sense.

 

I would never have learned how to make a build at all if I had not been able to look at various builds posted in the forums, back on Live and here on HC. The ability to read what others have to say about their builds and why they built them that way is important if you want to be able to apply their knowledge and acquire some of your own.

 

I enjoy looking at builds made by other players because I often find myself doing the same basic thing over and over. It's tough to break old habits, which is where observing what others are doing comes in. Sometimes the build another player has made will reveal some mechanics or tricks I've never thought to add to a build, and I'm inspired to rebuild an old character from the ground up. On rarer occasions I can't understand why they have built they way they do, because I haven't actually played the powersets only farmed them up. For instance, I do not understand how to build a Bio armor character at all. I have tried my best and failed miserably, while I have seen others turn Bio armor into godmode. There's just not enough time in this life to master every possible powerset combination...

 

tl;dr - Looking at other people's builds can reveal useful ideas for your own builds.

[Glacier Peak]

I used to rely on the 'on paper build' I spent hours creating in MIDs only for it to turn out to be a terrible 'playing build.' I would actually spend all my influence buying the right IOs and sets and then respec and then test it out on the live shards. I've since learned of the cool MIDs export to game tool by xhiggy that takes what you've built in MIDs and export it to the beta so that you can actually test out your build before investing the time and effort in to your live character.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[Dona Eis Requiem]

I didn't read any malicious intent in the OP. Because of the way I personally learn things, I agreed; try it out first.

When I first came to CoH during live, I had the luxury of being invited by a IRL friend. 

I asked them 1 question when I logged on to create my first character: "What is the easiest to solo?"

Now this kinda threw them for a loop because they wanted to show me the ropes.

I wanted to figure things out and get comfy enough with the basics before I would even play with a real world friend.

As time went on, I started to ask questions more. Eventually we headed into Mids territory. 

It was a pleasant experience, having someone take the time to go through things with me to increase my understanding of the how and why.

Does *everyone* learn that way? No. But some do. 

I never played an MMO before CoH. I didn't want to because every game I was interested in, I'd go to the forums first.

99.9% of what I read only reinforced what was keeping me away from playing anything online with other people: outright hostility and nastiness

instead of any civil discourse. (Who tf wants to deal with that during leisure time?)

I don't doubt that there are vastly more lurkers than there will ever be folks actually posting.

 

 

[roleki]

Just because I spend inordinate amounts of time in Mids fretting over where I'm going to get that last 1.235% of S/L resist doesn't mean I think everyone should.  If someone asks for slotting advice or a build and it's something I've done before, I am more than happy to send mine along, with the caveat that this is what works for ME.  If it's helpful, great, if it's not what they are looking for, well, maybe it'll be what someone else is looking for down the road.  It doesn't make me any poorer for sharing it, and except for the most gifted mental gymnasts, doesn't make anyone poorer for my having shared it.

 

I know that I am grateful that there are people around here that DO post builds and answer questions on slotting; it's that willingness to share that encourages reciprocity and turns a forum of strangers into a community.  If it weren't for people sharing their advice and what their experience has been with this or that, this space would just be a bulletin board where people nail up their navel-gazing screeds or sloppy wet shitposts detailing how someone else's X is ruining THEIR Y and the devs need to do something about it.  

[ZemX]

19 minutes ago, roleki said:

Just because I spend inordinate amounts of time in Mids fretting over where I'm going to get that last 1.235% of S/L resist doesn't mean I think everyone should. 

 

Strangely, I have less annoyance with finding the last 1.235% than finding the first 30% or whatever.  This is why I love starting with a complete build and customizing it vs. starting from scratch.  I start from scratch if I can't find a build I like well enough to tweak.  But otherwise, I'd rather play the game of tradeoffs on a complete build if I want more of this over here and can deal with less of that over there, stat-wise.  Oh, this build I downloaded is all purples and winters and full PvP sets?  Hmm... what does it look like with less expensive sets that are similar, but not as good?  Because I'll probably build it that way first and only eventually work up to such a lofty load of IOs.  I'm just not rolling around in that much excess cash... yet.

[tidge]

I'm not particularly irked by requests for builds (or build advice). I will admit to emoting *facepalm* when I see a blanket request for a full build (with no parameters) and then a response form the requester "No thanks, not what I am looking for."

 

I recently found an area of improvement for one specific, long-played character that I feel like I slightly improved (for the content I favor) only after helping another player with a suggestion for a similar build. The bitter irony of this specific situation is that I have now convinced myself I have 1 slot that probably isn't doing as much for me as I'd like and so I'm now endlessly tweaking the build to gauge potential improvements.

[kubwulf]

11 hours ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

I don't think you've misunderstood anything.  That's indeed what the OP and others are saying.  But the reality is players will continue to ask for builds regardless of this thread.  My problem is the OP and many others in this thread treat those players as 'lazy' or worse.  Perhaps they're right in some cases.  I maintain that most of the posters asking for builds are new to the forums.  They need guidance rather than silence or disparagement.  I'd rather make an attempt at educating and growing the population than letting them fall by the wayside.  As I said earlier, it's hard.  Many of the new posters seem both oblivious and entitled.  I get that.  But give them a chance to grow.

 

Hi!  New poster here.  Oi.  

 

Having played when COH first came out, I'm aware that people, like me, are just rediscovering the game.  What I have seen in my brief forays into the forums, is that people will ask for a build, someone will post a MIDS or something similar, with no explanation.  "Here ya go. Here's a build."  

As someone returning, some of the powers are new and different to me.  Especially incarnates.  If I were to ask for a build and copied it exactly, would I really learn anything?  Would I know the why of a power or enhancement selection?  I think there is a very wide gulf between providing a build, and providing a build with information.  

Someone else mentioned the lurkers.  I think that if more people in the community were willing to post builds with reasoned responses and explanations, @Aurora_Girl would have less of an issue.  I'm guessing here, of course.  She may well have an issue either way; but it seems to me that the crux of the issue is build posts without knowledge gain.

[Mezmera]

9 minutes ago, kubwulf said:

 

Hi!  New poster here.  Oi.  

 

Having played when COH first came out, I'm aware that people, like me, are just rediscovering the game.  What I have seen in my brief forays into the forums, is that people will ask for a build, someone will post a MIDS or something similar, with no explanation.  "Here ya go. Here's a build."  

As someone returning, some of the powers are new and different to me.  Especially incarnates.  If I were to ask for a build and copied it exactly, would I really learn anything?  Would I know the why of a power or enhancement selection?  I think there is a very wide gulf between providing a build, and providing a build with information.  

Someone else mentioned the lurkers.  I think that if more people in the community were willing to post builds with reasoned responses and explanations, @Aurora_Girl would have less of an issue.  I'm guessing here, of course.  She may well have an issue either way; but it seems to me that the crux of the issue is build posts without knowledge gain.

 

This is why I don't use mids.  There's lots of things that changed from live that I hadn't experienced and wouldn't know how I wanted to tailor my characters to fit my playstyle.  Upon my return I just built my first characters as I had remembered last on live with the caveat that I knew proc's were a bit different so I tried to take advantage of those new rules where it best fit.  

 

I was familiar with incarnates but there was some new powers like the Origin pools and other changes to pool powers that I hadn't experienced which affected my characters more than I had known when first back. 

 

Heck I'm even still adapting, I recently changed out a 5th piece of Manticore which netted me a 7.5 recharge bonus for a Force Feedback proc which would net me on average a 30 recharge bonus so long as I am actively fighting.  If ever someone asks for a build on something I have lots of expertise on I will give away some of my ancient secrets but try to leave them room to adapt a build to how they themselves like to play.