I grind like a bitch, and I still can't keep my holes filled

[Clave Dark 5]

Best advice I can think of (on top of everyone above me there): team, PUG, TFs, whatever. 

 

Drag this weak and terrible toon to 50, even with egregious holes in your slotting.  Be lazy on the teams, hang out in back where it's safe, whatever. 

 

No one will call you out for this, and if you say you're new, they may even give you gifts. If they do call you out, block them and keep playing.

 

Make it to 50, keep playing.  Keep teaming.  Inf with drops etc. will start to roll in in large chunks.  Keep being lazy if you need to, whatever.  😃  Once that toon is slotted and established, you won't have to hide in back AND the money will start to pile up, by simply playing (not farming, speed-running etc.)  Just playing, easy peasy. 

 

Enjoy playing a superhero.  😃

[Sovera]

Read the guide in my signature and you should be more than fine. Even just doing the tour earns 1 million (5 Merits, each Merit worth 3 Converters so 15 Converters, each converter worth around 70k so 70x15=1 million).

 

Doing the early storylines that end by level 9 earns another 9 merits. So 9 Merits = 1.8 million. So by level 9 and combining both you should have almost 3 million.

 

Buy generic IOs but not SOs as the vendor sold SOs turn bad after 5 levels and need to be re-bought where generic IOs stay good until 50.  The three million will buy all the generic IOs your build will need, and that's in the first half hour of playing!

 

Of course generic IOs are just the barest minimum and the actual gear will cost a lot more, but at least you will not be running naked.

 

 

I predict you must have quite a few Merits to your name if you haven't been on a diet of radio missions.

 

Quote

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way. But development here is not inherent, it hinges on filling power slots. If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

 

You're also truly being hyperbolic. I get that it's a new game but the drama is palpable 😄 

 

Any game involves gearing up. You either get it from drops, grind it from bosses, craft it, or buy it. Even in WoW as we level we end up in the AH buying stuff to cover what quests did not and don't get me started in Guild Wars 2 where the drops are crap and diluted over a multitude of useless affixes so while leveling solely via drops and quest rewards is possible it is a slog compared to hitting the AH every 10 levels and buying a whole suit of upgrades for a few silvers.

 

Sell Merits and buy what you need by typing /ah. There are no economic shenanigans other than hitting an ATM to transform Merits into Converters and then toss those into the /ah.

 

 

Edited February 29 by Sovera

[KITANYA]

We have such a good community here

 

 

Say that you are a new player to your team, they WILL help you out, it's not like other games communities where they complain about you being new or your performance.

[Ukase]

18 hours ago, temnix said:

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way. But development here is not inherent, it hinges on filling power slots. If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

So, I respect the position you're in. Most of us that didn't have a mysterious (or known) benefactor dropping a chunk of inf on us have gone through the same kind of "growing pains". 

There are a number of tricks that have nothing to do with "economic shenanigans" that could be of some use. You've already learned the most painful one - turning XP off. So, here's a few more tips and tricks that won't require "economic shenanigans" that could alleviate some of the burden. 

You mentioned Kings Row...and in the same breath, you mention Praetoria. I don't know what level you are, but since you mentioned kings row, I am going to assume you're over level 20. 

Consider joining or running a DiB trial. Drowning in Blood is a short trial that offers four individual week long buffs, you get to pick one. 

 

Another task I recommend is the Invention Tutorial. With the new changes, I suspect you've gotten this contact: 


This is a simple, non-combat click fest. But, you get a free invention enhancement out of it. And..this one does not expire like SOs do. I think this is the path to solvency. The problem is these are often more expensive to craft than the SO! But, you only have to buy it once. And, truth be told, as you grow a pile of influence, you'll likely want to buy another higher level one, every 5-10 levels. But that's just for a larger buff. They do not drop to zero like the SOs that turn red after 4 levels. 

Another option is to participate in the frequent DFBs, as there are 5 SOs given at your level - one for each AV defeated. Tinder, Meinst, The steroid-freak-built Lost boss, and the two giant green hydra heads. They each give an SO, and if you weren't over level 20, you'd get another buff that expires at ...level 22. 

I can't say these activities will have you rolling in loot, but they can ease the pain of weak or missing enhancements. 

Another option, in lieu of selling your salvage - use an SG empowerment buff station. There are public SG bases available - not sure what server you're on, but if you check the server specific forums here, you'll likely see the codes required for entry and you can come and go at will and use their buff stations freely - as long as you have the salvage for it. 

Now, I could mention things like reward merits and how you can visit a merit vendor and exchange those merits for recipes, which is inefficient, or you could exchange them for converters, or boosters and sell those ...but I am afraid those options might seem like "economic shenanigans". 

The last thing I'll mentions is "Day Jobs" . Certain Day Jobs can provide a small buff on your character. How long the buff lasts depends on how long it was logged off at that day job. It's really counter-productive for leveling, yes, we know. But, we have 1000 slots to make characters. Stands to reason you'd make another one and become more efficient now that you've learned a few tricks. 

Like running DFB 4 times for a fair number of SOs and buffs that would last until level 22. I wouldn't do this on every character, but it might be worth it until you can scrape a stack of influence together. 


Lastly, if you would like a pile of influence for free, you only have to ask in the help channel. I promise you someone is going to drop some influence on you. How much is anyone's guess. The more entitled you come across, however, the less you're likely to get. 
 

[golstat2003]

18 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Look for scheduled Hami raids on your server, Hami-O's can go for 5mil or 35mil+ on the AH, if you run them back to back then you get merits after you've snagged an HO.

 

 

Just a note that you will have to run them on different characters. There is an 18 hour lockout on the same character once that character selects a Hami-O as a reward. If you use the same character within the lockout time window to defeat Hami a second or thrid time, that same character can select 4 Emp merits or Reward merits from the reward table, after they do damage to Hami, after Hami is defeated.

 

EDIT: I try to catch the Hami raids on Everlasting and Excelsior a few times a week when I can on my main crafter. Though I usually choose the Reward Mertis option, convert those to Enhancement Converters, and the play converter roulette on cheap IOs or reciepes I get from the AH. Doing this for a week, usually nets me about 500-700 million inf after 5 days. On very good weeks I can make up to 1 bill within 7 days.

Edited February 29 by golstat2003

[WuTang]

20 hours ago, temnix said:

I confess: I don't know how to play this game. I would think it should be self-obvious: I learn the basics, I fight, level up and that's it. But apparently there is some deep secret way that I am supposed to learn. Here is the thing: I never have enough Influence for all my power slots. I earn experience much faster than they drop Enhancements I could sell for enough to cover my own Enhancement needs. Single-origin Enhancements are very expensive, and all of them jump in price every five levels. I get two new slots every other level, and no money to fill them with. It may be objected that single-origin ones are the best kind and that I can't expect to have them everywhere without turning some special tricks, and in truth I could better afford dual-origin Enhancements. But by and large they would not be powerful enough against enemies, whose power scales noticeably with level. Note also that I am using every free Praetorian Enhancement from the Prestige vendors (and those are somewhat cheat-like), that I sell all my salvage, even larger Inspirations, and even all that does not amount to keeping even.

 

Without Enhancements in the slots at all enemies kick my bubble butt. A few whites together are already a big problem. With single-origins and Praetorians everywhere I am still challenged by an orange and a few yellows, but that is all right, they are supposed to be powerful. I like danger. But this can't go on. Every time I level up, the single-origins age by a few percentile points. Recently I turned off XP accumulation and ground around King's Row, looking for blues and greens, being careful with whites. It took two evenings to hassle up the money I needed, though I did devote some time to discovering the area, looking at the scenes and so on, without which I would have vomited. After two evenings, when I could not look at another Skull's baseball bat without feeling nauseous, I had finally filled my slots with single-origins and Praetorians. Then I switched XP accumulation back on and got on with the game's stories. The Enhancements are lasting me for now, but I don't have anything to replace them with in a couple of levels. Will I have to repeat that maneuver? I don't care to, and it wouldn't be enough at the rate they are climbing in price and quantity. The selling price of Enhancements is several times lower than the buying price, and I can almost never use the ones enemies drop. Eight times out of ten they are of an incompatible origin, the rest of the time irrelevant or too weak. As it happens, my scrapper only has use for Accuracy, Damage, Defense Buff, a little Recharge and Heal; as it happens, they are the most expensive kind. Nor have I made any original, fun, irrational choices in distributing slots. No, I dutifully slotted my attack powers and defense, with only one slot put in Health, for slightly faster healing.

 

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way. But development here is not inherent, it hinges on filling power slots. If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

I did the same before I realized... Enhancements that drop off the baddies are just for selling to the vendor. Do not buy them at all, wasting your inf. You can use one that drops to plug a hole until you can craft a better one, that's fine, but don't buy them. The crafted ones do not diminish as you level so their potency remains, now their relevance may wane, but as some here have undoubtedly mentioned, crafted level 25s can last you til 50.

[cranebump]

I'm assuming you can also grab the explore badges from Echo: Galaxy to get 5 more merits, if you're going the enhancement converter route. Easily over a mil. Sell your first orange on AE, that should put you close to 2. If you're not into crafting IOs, you should have plenty to run on DO's for a while. To be frank, though, once you get used to the game a bit more, you'll probably be able to get to 20 without slotting anything, depending on the route you take (and the toon you run).

[ZacKing]

18 hours ago, biostem said:

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do, but I would *never* use reward merits to buy SOs...  Much better, IMHO, to buy something like an enh booster then sell those for inf, then use the info to buy SOs...

 

Same here, especially when you can run stuff like DFBs and SBBs that drop SOs which can be used or sold for inf.  Buying SOs with merits is a waste.

[Ukase]

18 hours ago, biostem said:

I'm not going to tell anyone what to do, but I would *never* use reward merits to buy SOs...  Much better, IMHO, to buy something like an enh booster then sell those for inf, then use the info to buy SOs...

While I completely agree with this, bear in mind the OP's aversion to "market shenanigans". Now, I'm not clear what a market shenanigan is or isn't...so I think the advice given isn't awful in that context. 

[StarseedWarrior]

21 hours ago, temnix said:

I confess: I don't know how to play this game. I would think it should be self-obvious: I learn the basics, I fight, level up and that's it. But apparently there is some deep secret way that I am supposed to learn. Here is the thing: I never have enough Influence for all my power slots. I earn experience much faster than they drop Enhancements I could sell for enough to cover my own Enhancement needs. Single-origin Enhancements are very expensive, and all of them jump in price every five levels. I get two new slots every other level, and no money to fill them with. It may be objected that single-origin ones are the best kind and that I can't expect to have them everywhere without turning some special tricks, and in truth I could better afford dual-origin Enhancements. But by and large they would not be powerful enough against enemies, whose power scales noticeably with level. Note also that I am using every free Praetorian Enhancement from the Prestige vendors (and those are somewhat cheat-like), that I sell all my salvage, even larger Inspirations, and even all that does not amount to keeping even.

 

Without Enhancements in the slots at all enemies kick my bubble butt. A few whites together are already a big problem. With single-origins and Praetorians everywhere I am still challenged by an orange and a few yellows, but that is all right, they are supposed to be powerful. I like danger. But this can't go on. Every time I level up, the single-origins age by a few percentile points. Recently I turned off XP accumulation and ground around King's Row, looking for blues and greens, being careful with whites. It took two evenings to hassle up the money I needed, though I did devote some time to discovering the area, looking at the scenes and so on, without which I would have vomited. After two evenings, when I could not look at another Skull's baseball bat without feeling nauseous, I had finally filled my slots with single-origins and Praetorians. Then I switched XP accumulation back on and got on with the game's stories. The Enhancements are lasting me for now, but I don't have anything to replace them with in a couple of levels. Will I have to repeat that maneuver? I don't care to, and it wouldn't be enough at the rate they are climbing in price and quantity. The selling price of Enhancements is several times lower than the buying price, and I can almost never use the ones enemies drop. Eight times out of ten they are of an incompatible origin, the rest of the time irrelevant or too weak. As it happens, my scrapper only has use for Accuracy, Damage, Defense Buff, a little Recharge and Heal; as it happens, they are the most expensive kind. Nor have I made any original, fun, irrational choices in distributing slots. No, I dutifully slotted my attack powers and defense, with only one slot put in Health, for slightly faster healing.

 

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way. But development here is not inherent, it hinges on filling power slots. If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

The market has been really funky lately to make inf but the only way is to craft and sell, dont sell salvage and etc thats a mistake right now.

 

Also just buy basic ios at level 32 or so they are better then single origins anyways and way cheaper in the long run. Also it helps to join farms usually you can afk those.

Edited February 29 by StarseedWarrior

[cranebump]

Should add you can also pick up explore merits, now that they spawn the locations you need to find as tips. Generally agree that the converter thing isn't optimal, but it is quick, for those who don't want to spend time crafting. You really can just sell things off and buy from vendors, if that's your druthers.

[cranebump]

7 minutes ago, StarseedWarrior said:

The market has been really funky lately

True. Yesterday I was looking to purchase some components and Luck Charms were pulling 4K. Haven't seen that in...well, I can't recall.

[StarseedWarrior]

1 minute ago, cranebump said:

True. Yesterday I was looking to purchase some components and Luck Charms were pulling 4K. Haven't seen that in...well, I can't recall.

That and prices on allot of things are way way down so your not making any profits.

[FFFF]

23 hours ago, temnix said:

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way. But development here is not inherent, it hinges on filling power slots. If I am being herded into consignments or some weird and time-consuming economic shenanigans, then... I am not interested enough even to make a joke.

 

So you just don't want to avail yourself of the mechanisms in the game that allows you to have plenty of influence?

 

Even if you don't want to play the market, how difficult is it to get merits (which you do for just doing story arcs / TFs), converting them to Enhancement Converters, listing the batch for 10 inf each and selling them for 65-70k a pop?

 

100 merits = 300 enhancement converter = 18M influence (assuming the bottom price of 60k per each enhancement). Just running through the full Hollows arcs can net you 85 merits. 18M is more than enough to fund a character on SOs for the rest of your hero career.

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, StarseedWarrior said:

That and prices on allot of things are way way down so your not making any profits.

 

That's why I convert things into specific types IOs (Healing -- > Rare Heal Prods, LOTGs or other Defensive IOs, etc)  that I know will make money. You do enough time you get to intrinscily know what will make money.

 

I've never failed to be able to IO out a toon with purples, Attuned, etc after 7 days of using converters. And I'm on like my 35th fully IO'd out level 50 since joining HC.

Edited February 29 by golstat2003

[golstat2003]

54 minutes ago, FFFF said:

 

So you just don't want to avail yourself of the mechanisms in the game that allows you to have plenty of influence?

 

Even if you don't want to play the market, how difficult is it to get merits (which you do for just doing story arcs / TFs), converting them to Enhancement Converters, listing the batch for 10 inf each and selling them for 65-70k a pop?

 

100 merits = 300 enhancement converter = 18M influence (assuming the bottom price of 60k per each enhancement). Just running through the full Hollows arcs can net you 85 merits. 18M is more than enough to fund a character on SOs for the rest of your hero career.

 

Yeah I never understood the complaint. And I've seen it more than once on the forums and online. You MUST put at least SOME effort in.

 

Unless you use one of the methods to make money, then expect to stay on SOs. That's just been City of Heroes since IOs came into existence. And as you said you can make enough money doing simple things for just SOs for the entire trip from 1-50. 

 

EDIT: As multiple people have said in the market forums and even in THIS thread making just enough to get COMMON IOs that you don't have to upgrade is simple and easy.

[Player2]

The single biggest benefit to my lots and lots of alts is the Re-Use/Recycle strategy.

 

I play my early levels with the boosters available at the S.T.A.R.T. vendor and slot in any useful DOs and SOs as I find them.  When I hit level 27, I use basic Invention Origin enhancements because they're better than the level 50 SOs when you reach level 50, while the level 25 ones are a little sub-par.

 

I usually respec my characters one or twice throughout their advancement, usually when there's a major change to how something in the game works or if I've found a new way that works better than something I've been doing.  Whenever I do a respec, I leave all my old enhancements in storage bins in my personal SG base and upgrade to better things.  Sometimes this means buying some new stuff with higher level characters that can afford it, but it always means that my lower level toons can save their influence for later on too as they pick up the hand-me-downs at level 27.

[Oubliette_Red]

5 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

 

Just a note that you will have to run them on different characters. There is an 18 hour lockout on the same character once that character selects a Hami-O as a reward. If you use the same character within the lockout time window to defeat Hami a second or thrid time, that same character can select 4 Emp merits or Reward merits from the reward table, after they do damage to Hami, after Hami is defeated.

 

EDIT: I try to catch the Hami raids on Everlasting and Excelsior a few times a week when I can on my main crafter. Though I usually choose the Reward Mertis option, convert those to Enhancement Converters, and the play converter roulette on cheap IOs or reciepes I get from the AH. Doing this for a week, usually nets me about 500-700 million inf after 5 days. On very good weeks I can make up to 1 bill within 7 days.

 

I'm on Torch and when I attend the nightly Hami'sm which could be 3 times in a week or 1 in 3 weeks depending on my mood, I usually take a HO on the first run and merits on the second run of the evening then I'm out.

 

We also have SNS (Saturday Night Synapse) every weekend running anywhere from 2-4 leagues plus 1 or more overflow league for people that show up for the Babbages beatdown. Last weekend there were 5 leagues, 28 Babbages, 1 Kronos and enough overflow to spawn a second Skyway. So plenty of merits and mini-monster salvage to go around.

 

Edit: Also, most folks end up with multiple 50's eventually, I'm a slow poke and only have around 5 of them in my roster of around 35 characters. I chose 1 to do the majority of my crafting and marketeering on the AH. She also funds most of my other characters with startup costs, I usually have multiple emails sitting with 5mil for new characters to grab when they are made that way they can get off the ground running from the get-go.

 

Edited February 29 by Oubliette_Red

[Ironblade]

On 2/28/2024 at 1:29 PM, temnix said:

I think I should be able to play this or any other game like this: I fight, complete quests, develop powers and with a little selling of what I don't need, buying what I do, a tiny bit of saving, maybe, continue on my merry way.

 

In my experience, it has not been like that in any game I can think of.  Whether you're talking about an MMO like Everquest, Black Desert or Elder Scrolls.  Or if you're talking about open world survival like Valheim, 7 Days To Die, etc.  It's always a varying amount of struggle at low levels.  Some are worse than others.  This game is actually pretty good compared to many since you aren't useless with poor gear (enhancements).

 

What I find works in this game, for a new character, is to run the Death From Below trial about four times.  Each time you run it, you can get a buff that lasts. . . . don't quote me on this, but I think it's 7 in-game days or until you hit level 20.  There are four buffs: accuracy, damage, defense and END recovery.  You'll also get SO's from each arch-villain defeated (there are five).  Of course, they won't all be useful and the ones you get on the first run will probably expire by the fourth run.  But, between the buffs and the SO's you get, you'll be serviceable.

 

My early goal is to get high enough level to start running task forces.  I enjoy them and someone is always starting one.  If not, I'll start one.  Positron part 1 starts at level 8.  Task forces give Reward Merits which can be sold or used to generate greater funds.  Also, it's worth watching out for the 'Weekly Strike Targets'.  Every week, there are 3 task forces or strike forces (villain side) that will give bonus XP and double the number of reward merits.  Of course, not every week features a low level task force so that depends on the timing.

[macskull]

14 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

"If you are grouped with a higher level person and receive no xp for overcoming foes, then you also will not receive any invention, salvage, recipe or inspiration drops." - https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Patch_Notes/2007-05-01

That's... not what that means. That patch note means that if I were on, say, a level 1 character teaming up with a level 50 character, but was not sidekicked to that level 50 character, I would not receive any drops from defeated mobs in addition to not receiving any inf or XP. Due to the way sidekicking works now that mechanic isn't relevant anymore, but that patch note says nothing about inf/XP division based on the share of damage dealt to a target. In fact, looking through every patch note from 2004 to present there are exactly zero mentions of removing the behavior you're describing. Given this, I'm pretty sure you're Mandela Effect'ing yourself here.

Edited March 1 by macskull
clarity

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 2/28/2024 at 1:29 PM, temnix said:

I confess: I don't know how to play this game.

 

In your defense, we should all remember that the origins of Homecoming was a secret "illegal" server that hosted veteran players who played amongst themselves for seven years.  Most changes the HC devs have made have been targeted towards veteran players and making their progress better by their own personal standards.  Those standards have always seemed to me to be "make it easier and faster to do what I want to do" and since every last one of them was an experienced player, inf really wasn't an issue.  So we get rules like getting signature powers earlier (so your 20s are filled with getting great new useful powers, but you can't slot them worth a damn until the 30s) and making SOs available at level 2.  Level 2!!!

 

Against your defense, why in the world are you buying SOs from the vendor?  There are DOs right at the top, and they are so much cheaper.  Your drops from defeating mobs will often be SOs that you can sell if you can't use, and selling SOs to buy DOs is simple.  Could it be that not only do you want the overpowered goodies early (which I personally think was a terrible idea) but you also want to get all those overpowered goodies for cheap or free?  (I think this too is a terrible idea).

 

I absolutely agree that (maybe up until this recent issue) the devs have focused on giving toys earlier and earlier, but they haven't focused on making those toys cheap enough for people who (in your words) don't know how to play the game.  Well, as you learn to play the game you'll learn how to get those toys, but until then, why not spend your inf on the cheaper ones that may not be the absolute top of the line?

[eiynp]

it might be nice if SOs decayed over a longer timeline (say, five or ten levels); they still wouldn't replace basic IOs for anyone knowledgeable but they wouldn't be quite so much of a trap purchase for newer players

 

broadly though this isn't really a solvable problem; the game has a lot of systems and that's part of the charm, even if they can be confusing.

[UltraAlt]

13 hours ago, macskull said:

That's... not what that means.

 

Whatever.

I know what was going on in-game.

 

I know what...

13 hours ago, macskull said:

If you are grouped with a higher level person and receive no xp for overcoming foes

... implies...

If you don't overcome foes, then you don't get xp for overcoming foes -and- if you don't get xp from foes overcome when you are on a team, then the team isn't dividing up xp among the team members.

 

Lot of mechanics were hidden when this game as first released.

 

So you show me where it says how XP worked on a team when the game was first released.

Prove it.

[eiynp]

Back-In-The-Day(tm) each hero could only have one sidekick, so it was possible to group with people well below your level in a way you can’t really do anymore. To prevent degenerate power-leveling you wouldn’t get exp from mobs more than +5 to your character (iirc)

 

it was nothing to do with the distribution of exp within groups

[Greycat]

20 minutes ago, eiynp said:

Back-In-The-Day(tm) each hero could only have one sidekick, so it was possible to group with people well below your level in a way you can’t really do anymore. To prevent degenerate power-leveling you wouldn’t get exp from mobs more than +5 to your character (iirc)

 

it was nothing to do with the distribution of exp within groups

 

"You are getting too far from your mentor."

"your mentor is too far away!"

"Your mentor is in range."

"You are getting too far from your mentor."

"Your mentor is too far away!"

 

.... god, I hated some characters with superjump.

 

(And let's not forget "your exemplar lost connection, so you're getting dropped from this task force you've been on for four hours." Ahh, the ... good?... old days.)