Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Super Atom]

Just now, ThunderCAP said:

I won't battle the obvious keyboard-lions that are and will come out. There is value in easy sets, more so for tanks. You can read plenty of guides about the value of easy sets in both defense and offense for tanks, I won't write those off for you and it really won't matter in there.

Cause the point remains: there are peoples who like easy sets, there are archetypes who need them more then the rest, just leave out the useless showing off.

What isn't easy about the new changes? I'd love to help but you haven't exactly specified what exactly about energy focus isn't easy for you, the cone is wide enough so you don't truly need to reposition and the gimmick is passive enough to where even if you ignore it, you'll still gain strong benefits.

[ThunderCAP]

3 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

What isn't easy about the new changes? I'd love to help but you haven't exactly specified what exactly about energy focus isn't easy for you, the cone is wide enough so you don't truly need to reposition and the gimmick is passive enough to where even if you ignore it, you'll still gain strong benefits.

I specified plenty already, re-read:

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by ThunderCAP

[Super Atom]

Just now, ThunderCAP said:

I specified plenty already, re-read.

I read your post, but it wasn't really anything about the set and more about you personally. Tanking wise, EM only gained from this change if from nothing else but the cone, which increases in targets if you use it after TF. TF is faster, ET can be faster allowing you to reposition quicker overall. The cone will help you keep aggro from those silly blasters paired with your whirling hands. You don't really need to monitor the gimmick outside of for maximum benefit use TF before ET, which is an extremely easy rule of thumb. The set is incredibly simplistic. and has improved your general AOE capabilities as well as lowered animation times. I see no downsides other than personal flavor opinions clashing on the way this change was done, but for tanking? the cone alone is a giant improvement.

[Lines]

Have you given it a go, ThunderCAP? You can easily ignore the TF>ET combo and still be very effective - more than on live from what I gather.

 

The mechanic doesn't have to affect you if you don't want it to, and you'll still be buffed.

[Bopper]

38 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

40 second buff to ST damage on the em/sr brute even staying with old craptacular ET. TF/BS/ET/BS/repeat.

Yes, it's a buff overall. Yay.

Still leaves the shitty ridiculously long animation for ET in place unless you purposefully go TF/ET and build an ugly attack chain wasting power picks. Or go sub-optimal with TF/ET/BS/EP/Bar.

Ain't gonna lie, yay for the buff. Yay for more AoE. Still hate this ET change. It's crap.

Have you tested the rotation i offered here?

 

It requires a lot of recharge, but it will beast.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Bopper said:

Have you tested the rotation i offered here?

 

It requires a lot of recharge, but it will beast.

I have not. Thank you and I will with the em/bio scrapper after I get her slotted out.

[Solarverse]

Just now, Lines said:

Have you given it a go, ThunderCAP? You can easily ignore the TF>ET combo and still be very effective - more than on live from what I gather.

 

The mechanic doesn't have to affect you if you don't want it to, and you'll still be buffed.

I think once he/she plays around with it, he/she will enjoy it much more than they realize. The ONLY problem I have with it at this point is that they have changed something with the sound files. I am trying to make a mod for it to give it the original sound effects, but am unable to locate the files. They are not in their normal place.

[Hopestar]

2 hours ago, AmrasNotHere said:

Not sure if this was addressed for Power Crash, spelling typo in the description while viewing the power at the trainer. Uneashing!!! 🙂

Also Energy Transfer is not showing up under the power section when looking at player info. Really loving the changes so far. 

Also, the comma should be removed from "You focus your internal energy on your fists, and release it".

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Solarverse said:

I think once he/she plays around with it, he/she will enjoy it much more than they realize. The ONLY problem I have with it at this point is that they have changed something with the sound files. I am trying to make a mod for it to give it the original sound effects, but am unable to locate the files. They are not in their normal place.

You know I gotta ask... why can't you grok the problems those are of us are having with the dual animations when you have such issues with the sound FX?

[Lines]

3 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

The ONLY problem I have with it at this point is that they have changed something with the sound files. I am trying to make a mod for it to give it the original sound effects, but am unable to locate the files. They are not in their normal place.

In the new launcher structure? Have you checked in the i24 folder? I don't know the names of the energy melee sounds specifically (because nobody knew how to name things back in 2004) but I think they'll be in there.

[Solarverse]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

You know I gotta ask... why can't you grok the problems those are of us are having with the dual animations when you have such issues with the sound FX?

Because as long as I have a way to avoid the nerfed animation and I can get back to original animation, I'm happy as a pig in mud. The sound effects is something that I can fix on my end, but before I can fix that, I have to know what files they are using and the location they have placed them. It's possible this move was done on live before Homecoming though. What I can say is that the files are not where they used to be according to the Rosetta Stone.

However, I don't really have a dog in that fight, because as long as I have the original animation available to me, I don't care what happens to the set, heh. Anybody can get what they want...just don't take away my original animation!

[Solarverse]

5 minutes ago, Lines said:

In the new launcher structure? Have you checked in the i24 folder? I don't know the names of the energy melee sounds specifically (because nobody knew how to name things back in 2004) but I think they'll be in there.

No, it would be in the piggs folder with the sound files. or at least they *should* be. The files used to be Chargeup_1.ogg (located in the V_Powers folder) and PunchHit2.ogg located in the Powers folder. However, manipulating those files changes nothing. So they have at some point been retired. I just need to know the name and location of the new files for Energy Transfer and I can do the rest.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Solarverse

[Saikochoro]

Most of my feedback is in the scrapper thread as I’ve only tested EM/SD scrappers so far. 
 

Overall, I love the changes. Power crash is not overly strong and EM is still far behind other sets in terms of AoE from what I have tested so far. However, this is a good thing as EM has outstanding single target damage. I think this is a good thing and how the set should be. 
 

I like the energy focus and release mechanic as well as how crits on scrapper/stalker heal instead of take away health with energy transfer. I think it was a good call to not allow full crit on total focus and to not allow crit damage on energy transfer.  Unlucky streaks of non-crit energy transfer cans still crash your health without other sources of healing so that is also a good balance point. 

Lastly, I saw mention of turning total focus into AoE and I fully disagree with that. Energy melee does not need more AoE than it has already given. It should remain a top tier single target set and I think these changes accomplish that very nicely. 
 

Overall I am very pleased with the EM changes and proliferation to scrapper. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Super Atom]

2 minutes ago, Saikochoro said:

Lastly, I saw mention of turning total focus into AoE and I fully disagree with that. Energy melee does not need more AoE than it has already given. It should remain a top tier single target set and I think these changes accomplish that very nicely. 
 

Overall I am very pleased with the EM changes and proliferation to scrapper. 

100% PC/WH is strong enough to keep up without being too much now.

 

plus incarnate judgements 😛 

[Lines]

11 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

No, it would be in the piggs folder with the sound files. or at least they *should* be. The files used to be Chargeup_1.ogg (located in the V_Powers folder) and PunchHit2.ogg located in the Powers folder. However, manipulating those files changes nothing. So they have at some point been retired. I just need to know the name and location of the new files for Energy Transfer and I can do the rest.

Overriding both of those worked for me.

[Troo]

On 10/24/2020 at 2:12 PM, Infinitum said:

No, you would be wrong if you cant see how much of a net gain this is, like I keep saying its a net gain if you never use focus.

 

If you use focus it blows old pre nerf EM out of the water.

 

They have given you a Ferrari and you are asking for an 88 ford escort.

Arguments depending on the first draft of a power set change are potential folly. I would submit that currently, the existing beta setup could be over performing.

 

It is also only out performing the old pre-nerf EM set IF using the powers an exact or very narrow order. 

 

In order to claim a net gain we have to first establish what we are measuring. DPS, control, single hard target, enemy groups, min/max builds, average players.

 

Is current beta Energy Punch > Bone Smash > Energy Transfer chain out performing the old pre-nerf Energy Melee?

Does the current setup avoid corpse blasting with the non TF >ET combo mechanic?

If a player does attack a target which is then defeated mid animation did they waste an attack?

 

Take the blinders off, drop the bias and open our minds.

If this is the change, when the final numbers are dialed in, it is a middling solution that did nothing but add an annoying mechanic to a set that did not previously have one while failing to address a number of basic issues. (granted some folks love combo mechanics, no offense intend to yall)

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Troo

[Solarverse]

Just now, Lines said:

Overriding both of those worked for me.

Odd, I have successfully made well over 30 mods for this game. Why am I having so much issue with this one? Let's take this to PM's not to derail the thread.

[Troo]

@Solarverse is it because it is on beta?

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Troo said:

Take the blinders off, drop the bias and open your mind.

If this is the change, when the final numbers are dialed in, it is a middling solution that did nothing but add an annoying mechanic to a set that did not previously have one while failing to address a number of basic issues.

Yeah its not middling by any stretch of how the numbers run, and what you gain.

 

Even if you never used the mechanic, the buffs are solid and almost as good as original EM with that alone.  Add focus in, which is so easy, to just activate one power - it blows pre nerf EM out of the water.

 

There are no blinders here this is an awesome change.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

Yeah its not middling by any stretch of how the numbers run, and what you gain.

 

Even if you never used the mechanic, the buffs are solid and almost as good as original EM with that alone.  Add focus in, which is so easy, to just activate one power - it blows pre nerf EM out of the water.

 

There are no blinders here this is an awesome change.

Numerically. Artistically it's crap.

[Vanden]

6 minutes ago, Troo said:

it is a middling solution that did nothing but add an annoying mechanic to a set that did not previously have one

and buff Energy Punch and Whirling Hands, and speed up Total Focus and Bone Smasher, and add a desperately-needed second AoE attack

[Solarverse]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

@Solarverse is it because it is on beta?

It's not having any affect on live either.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Numerically. Artistically it's crap.

Yeah thats your opinion, which i disagree with.

[Super Atom]

Just now, Infinitum said:

Yeah its not middling by any stretch of how the numbers run, and what you gain.

 

Even if you never used the mechanic, the buffs are solid and almost as good as original EM with that alone.  Add focus in, which is so easy, to just activate one power - it blows pre nerf EM out of the water.

 

There are no blinders here this is an awesome change.

I think It's AOE is still middle-ground area, it certainly isn't stronger AOE wise than elec melee or rad melee, which is a good thing. it's ST capabilities is amazingly strong and all that's asked of you is that you open with the now faster TF. I'm almost sure using BU>TF>ET is now about as fast as using BU>TF before, so you gain a whole power in the same time frame for St damage and the cone is just wonderful.

 

I cannot say enough about this change to the cone, It's the best thing about any of this for me and improves the set dramatically by itself.

[Bopper]

50 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I have not. Thank you and I will with the em/bio scrapper after I get her slotted out.

Scrapper i might recommend something else if you use ATO proc