Focused Feedback: Teleportation Pool Revamp

[Andreah]

2 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I imagine they don't want to step on gravity's toes too much. Still, a slow or chance for knockdown would be nice.

 

Either way, I like the power quite a lot on my shade.

I was thinking revised teleport would pair well with gravity control; thematically especially.

[Vanden]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

I imagine they don't want to step on gravity's toes too much. Still, a slow or chance for knockdown would be nice.

 

Either way, I like the power quite a lot on my shade.

Maybe like a one-second immobilize, to keep them from running away immediately.

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, Andreah said:

Wouldn't it be great if most powers had alternative sound effects to customize among, and not just VFX?

 

We can do that now.  Creating the sounds and finding what needs to be replaced (substituted in the correct folder, which functions as an override, doesn't delete the existing sound) is the hard part.  I think it's @Solarverse who has a thread dedicated to sound mods.  I'm just not going to ask him to make a mod out of Lo Pan saying, "Indeed!" in Big Trouble in Little China, or "Yoink!"... not out of copyright concerns, or because I don't want to waste his time, but because I'm down to one good lung and I'd probably die laughing.

[Solarverse]

14 minutes ago, Andreah said:

Wouldn't it be great if most powers had alternative sound effects to customize among, and not just VFX?

@Luminara is correct. I have over 30 (lost count) sound mods for all sorts of powers. You can find a list of the mods, information and a tutorial on how to download and use the CoH Modder Tool that @The Philotic Knight has put together for modders to upload their mods to and several videos on what the mods sound like. If you check out my youtube channel which shouldn't be hard to find, I even have a video that shows the Radiation Blast mod in live action. However, due to the restrictions currently on posting videos of CoH footage (even if not footage of this server) to these forums, you'll have to find the video on your own...which again, should not be difficult. Trust me, you have TONS of choices.

The link to the page is in my Sig. Enjoy!  🙂 

[Azrik]

Loving the changes to this pool so far. You are going to make my stone tanker super happy. 🙂

[mrudat]

Perhaps a generic option for customising a power to be silent, so your character can say "Thoom!" "Freem!", "Yoink!", ... instead?

[dtj714]

Take 2 -

 

1. TP Target - Fine, combine Recall Friend and Teleport Foe if you are dead set on making room for other powers. Not much impact really.

 

2. Combat Teleport - This is actually a cool power, and (potentially) gives the pool a "progressive core" (think hover, fly, afterburner) - combat port, standard port, and LR (interzone) port.  Only problem is teleport is the only travel power that requires a multi-key bind to be truly functional.  Now I need to have two - one for this and one for regular teleport?  Again, IMHO it would be really nice if regular TP just had this functionality based on the port distance and/or combat status (sort of like snipes), which would also mean more room for other powers so you wouldn't have to get rid of...LRTP.

 

3. Teleport - Does anybody actually slot any of the other travel powers for greater effect?  Fly is the only other one I ever take, and that certainly isn't, so I honestly don't know.  Proposed changes are fine I guess.

 

4. Team Teleport - This needs a rework, not used at all in current form.  Make it an ATT clone (Hey, you can get it as a power instead of spending $10M infl! Yay?) or make it a team-wide in-zone mission port (i.e., ports everyone to mission door once all are in zone).

 

5. LRTP.  Please, for the love of God, don't remove this and give everyone access to it via accolade unlocks.  Find a way to make it more useful to those who take the pool.  For comparison, would you be willing to give everyone access to Cross Punch, or Burnout, via accolades?

 

6. Fold Space - Ok, it may be a cool parlor trick, but frankly it's horrible as a top tier pool power.  How is it useful to anyone who doesn't want/need a bunch of mobs right in their face?  In fact, it could be detrimental (Team not ready? Bunch of squishies? Too bad, I just ported a bunch of mobs on top of us!) or even to grief people.  If you insist on keeping it, at least make it like a group version of TP Target (i.e., ATT if used on an ally).

 

Finally, on WS's - New Starless Step (combat port) should replace dwarf step (both WS and PB) as that form's standard port, and stay as a power choice for use in human.  Leave Slip as LRTP.

 

Edit - I totally get WS's loving the new Slip.  But again same thing as the T5 in the pool for everyone else? Not so much.

Edited October 25, 2020 by dtj714

[Luminara]

12 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Trust me, you have TONS of choices.

 

 

[arthurh35353]

11 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

6. Fold Space - Ok, it may be a cool parlor trick, but frankly it's horrible as a top tier pool power.  How is it useful to anyone who doesn't want/need a bunch of mobs right in their face?  In fact, it could be detrimental (Team not ready? Bunch of squishies? Too bad, I just ported a bunch of mobs on top of us!) or even to grief people. 

Now this is a totally big deal. We should never have powers that you could potentially grief people with. Fold space is not a good fit and breaks a lot of things if you look at it hard.

[ScarySai]

15 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Finally, on WS's - New Starless Step (combat port) should replace dwarf step (both WS and PB) as that form's standard port, and stay as a power choice for use in human.

No, bad idea. Leave the dwarf port alone, but give the forms the option of using starless step, if it has been taken.

[derficus]

19 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

No, bad idea. Leave the dwarf port alone, but give the forms the option of using starless step, if it has been taken.

I'm curious why you wouldn't want the dwarf TP to work that way.  I was just thinking it would be nice on my PB.  As it currently sits I use dwarf step only occasionally, but if it had zero activation time I'd use it a lot more.

[dtj714]

11 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

No, bad idea. Leave the dwarf port alone, but give the forms the option of using starless step, if it has been taken.

Why not just give all forms access to all powers...

 

Giving dwarf the combat version as an inherent and giving human the ability to pick it (since human has and needs the basic port as its main travel power) makes more sense both functionally and thematically. Nova needs, and should get, neither since it gets flight.

[ScarySai]

15 minutes ago, derficus said:

I'm curious why you wouldn't want the dwarf TP to work that way.

Because it's already fast, and letting starless work in all forms is a more elegant solution than chopping away dwarf-port to make it work like starless does. Each form has a travel power, none of them have a combat-travel like starless.

 

8 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Giving dwarf the combat version as an inherent and giving human the ability to pick it (since human has and needs the basic port as its main travel power) makes more sense both functionally and thematically.

Thematics are subjective, I would argue losing the ability to warp space quickly just because you assumed the form of a nova to be nonsensical. Functionally, the ability to port away without having to shapeshift into human first is much more fluid gameplay.

 

8 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Nova needs, and should get, neither since it gets flight.

It doesn't need it, but it would certainly be a nice addition to the warshade's arsenal, and make it much more desirable overall.

Edited October 25, 2020 by ScarySai

[derficus]

16 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

Because it's already fast, and letting starless work in all forms is a more elegant solution than chopping away dwarf-port to make it work like starless does. Each form has a travel power, none of them have a combat-travel like starless.

I suppose it would preclude using dwarf step as a long distance travel power, but is that actually something it gets used for?  In any case, my PB can't get starless.

[ScarySai]

My shade has to surrender a power pick for it's combat travel power, your PB has it built in, while being able to surrender that same exact slot to the fastest travel power in the game which doubles as a LOTG mule.

 

PBs and warshades are different, who would have guessed.

[DoctorDitko]

Playing a professional teleporter, who has Gravity control and a secondary I forget, I think most of these changes are excellent.

 

He has every teleport power in the game. All of them, even the sucky ones. Concept character, what can I say?

 

Recall Friend and TP Foe combined? All win!

 

Team Teleport is used only for pranking team members, or the occasional trip to the top of a building. Won't miss it much. (I'll just have to find a different way to remind them they need to visit the Gull if they don't like being moved.)

 

I am a bit concerned Wormhole will lose some of its situational excellence, with Fold Space being available to everyone.

 

I like the changes to TP itself, but could you address the Hover issue? It is currently the only travel power that needs you to take another pool power to be safe while travelling. Aloft sounds like an excellent idea, thanks, cohRock!

 

Combat Teleport sounds like fun, and I suspect the idea behind +To Hit is, you can TP behind someone and knife them by surprise. OK, but I'd prefer a different side effect. The no-END-needed Defense of Hover or CJ is a real draw for those pools. +To Hit is easy to find.

 

LRTP -- counting the opportunity cost -- is currently a complete and utter waste of a power choice. I'm not sure everyone here realizes how limited it is. After spending all the power pool choices to get to it, LRTP lets you -- slowly -- travel to inconvenient places in:

Atlas, Kings Row, The Hollows, Skyway, Faultline, Steel, Talos, Independence Port, Croatoa, Brickstown, Founder's, Peregrine, and Kallisti Wharf. That leaves, IIRC, 40 zones unavailable.

 

Most of your destinations already have Auction House teleports to them. Not to mention Ourobouros. ALL are easily reached by the Base Portals. Or you know, maybe the Tram?

 

Making it into an "I know this place so well, I can get there blindfolded!" power is kind of neat, I'll have to see how it plays out. Does everyone remember that you get 5 merits and a dash of XP for exploring each zone, not to mention an accolade for doing all of them plus a little fighting? Seems like a bargain.

 

Overall, I have to say in theory I applaud these changes. Give me a while to test them out, I'll provide an update.

(The problem is, in theory there is no difference between theory and practice. However, in practice...)

 

Regardless, these changes seem like you put a lot of thought into them. Thanks, guys! Remind me to double your pay!

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by DoctorDitko
reasons

[Myrmidon]

9 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

I am a bit concerned Wormhole will lose some of its situational excellence, with Fold Space being available to everyone.

Fold Space is a PBAoE centered on the caster, Wormhole is controllable. If anything, I want both on my Controller, (since if possesses enough Defense to fight in the pit).

[Myrmidon]

2 hours ago, dtj714 said:

 

5. LRTP.  Please, for the love of God, don't remove this and give everyone access to it via accolade unlocks.  Find a way to make it more useful to those who take the pool.  For comparison, would you be willing to give everyone access to Cross Punch, or Burnout, via accolades?

Sorry, but comparing Long Range Teleport to either of those two powers is completely ludicrous. They’re not even in the same zip code.

[Solarverse]

38 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

Fold Space is a PBAoE centered on the caster, Wormhole is controllable. If anything, I want both on my Controller, (since if possesses enough Defense to fight in the pit).

Not to mention (or rather I am mentioning) that Wormhole also comes with a Stun. So you don't pay the price for taking the alpha after the teleport. Teleport a mob without the stun and I think players will quickly be popping greens, lol.

[InvaderStych]

Subjective feedback on Combat Teleport:

 

I'd still be inclined to take this power even if it didn't buff anything at all.

 

After running with it more practically in DA (as opposed to spamming it around) I feel like the overall pacing is excellent and the minimal delay to activate a queued power feels just right.

 

Outside what it should/shouldn't buff and what sets it could/couldn't take, here's me asking to please not slow down the pacing in exchange for better meta-numbers.  Somewhere up-thread there was a reference to the design intent being for us to take it for it's own sake, rather than what it can slot - if that's the case then, imo, the pacing (eg fun-factor/utility) is spot-on and hopefully isn't up for trade-off.

 

And thanks for this excellent new toy! 😄

Edited October 25, 2020 by InvaderStych

[Avilister]

I sort of feel like way too many people are trying to critique these powers without actually using them.

 

Here's some of what I've found. I didn't see it posted anywhere, so Fold Space (or rather Shadow Slip, which is what I've actually been testing) has a short 1.67s activation and does not appear to be interruptable (though the tooltips says it takes both interruption and range enhancements, I know it does not take range, I didn't even try interruption).

 

It also has line of sight checks.

 

While I'm testing out this warshade, I mostly main a Grav/Time controller, so I had concerns vis-a-vis Wormhole as well. This power is just... different. First, its not targeted. It'll grab everything in range up to its target limit. Second, there's no crowd control applied. While I've always been chagrined by putting a KB->KD enhancement in wormhole, this doesn't knock them down or stun them. They're just... there. Around you. As a warshade, this is actually pretty great, as you can immediately eclipse and then mire them and are all-but-guaranteed to have most of them in range for it. Third, like I said, it has line of sight checks. I tested this quite a bit running around in PI, which has quite a few low walls and other obstructions. Shadow Slip (ie: Fold Space) will not grab targets you don't have line of sight to. This is good and bad I think. Wormhole (as some of you are surely aware) doesn't really care about LoS - you can grab mobs through walls in other rooms or around corners, no problem. Fold Space won't.

 

Its a nice tool to either re-group a scattered pull or, as a warshade at least, immediately group up some dudes to fire your Eclipse at, but I don't think its a total replacement for wormhole. Having both would give you options, for sure, but Fold Space, as mentioned by other posters, is dangerous if you don't have some defenses up - they're pretty much going to immediately start attacking. (Wormhole, of course, is no-notify, and so with sufficient stealth, they might not even react to that.) Fold Space does notify targets, so if solo, they'll agro you immediately. I haven't tested on a team, they might get distracted by taunt aura or the like though.

 

-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

Combat Teleport (or rather Starless Step, as I was on a Warshade) feels sort of pointless. It will be FANTASTIC for Stoners and any other characters with significant movement impairments slapped on them, but it sort of just doesn't feel necessary to me. Sure, its cheap and with even a little recharge (in my case, just global and from haste) it recharges -very- quickly (I only run out of charges if I try to spam it). But.... I don't need this as a Warshade, and I don't think I'd need it on most other characters either. The To-Hit buff does stack, for what its worth, though the duration is pretty quick. Its not something you'd try to actively stack in most cases because you'd be teleporting rather than, you know, killing stuff. As a warshade, it'd be a nice perk if it were an inherent, but when this patch makes it to live, I wouldn't pick it pretty much ever. I do agree that it might have more utility if it replaced the Dwarf teleport, though. Fold Space (ie: Shadow Slip) would be pretty nice in Dwarf form too, I agree, though I don't think its as necessary or as critical as several other posters seem to be portraying it.

 

A text error. Starless Step has text specifying that it does not take Range enhancements twice: " Note that Starless is unaffected by Range changes. Note that Starless Step is unaffected by Range changes."

 

A quirk I noticed: Combat Teleport does not reorient you. If you target it behind you or something, you just scoot back, but you remain facing the same direction.

 

In short, Combat Teleport is... okay.... but I wouldn't waste a power pick for it on pretty much anything but a stone armor character (for whom, I'll again stress, it will be G-R-E-A-T).

Edited October 25, 2020 by Avilister

[dangeraaron10]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but I'm testing out Fold Space in Atlas Park and I noticed that with large enough groups, you'll sometimes bring the mobs to you stacked in a straight line pointing away from you, making only like half of the enemies in range for your average AoE on a Melee toon, even a Tanker.  And if you don't follow up with some sort of control rather quickly, the enemies scatter immediately.  

[macskull]

4 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Now this is a totally big deal. We should never have powers that you could potentially grief people with. Fold space is not a good fit and breaks a lot of things if you look at it hard.

Well, since the teleported targets aggro on the caster I would say that's not very likely.

[dtj714]

2 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

Sorry, but comparing Long Range Teleport to either of those two powers is completely ludicrous. They’re not even in the same zip code.

Exactly. But guess what?  They’re all T5 pool powers. The better solution would be to buff the power, not give it to everyone and replace it with something with niche utility. 

[Myrmidon]

1 minute ago, dtj714 said:

Exactly. But guess what?  They’re all T5 pool powers. The better solution would be to buff the power, not give it to everyone and replace it with something with niche utility. 

Long Range Teleport is now an Accolade power, not a T5. Fold Space is a proper replacement.