Star Allergies: Causes, means to address?

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, nihilii said:

What you're touching on here is not that alternate currencies aren't successful motivators, but rather that the net rewards for Vanguard Merits are too lackluster to encourage pursuing RWZ content specifically.

Warp back to the early Homecoming days where Vanguard Merits had a much better conversion rate, and Mothership Raids were so popular they, in fact, prompted a change.

 

Economic incentives work. If anything, in MMORPGs they work too well. Flip one switch and you change the gameplay landscape.

 

Which pretty much doesn't mean people want anything but reward merits, then. Which would be an argument for removing an extra currency, not keeping it around. After all, MSRs aren't *un*popular now by any means. I see them run multiple times every night.

 

Extra currencies "make sense" (from the perspective of a business) when an MMO is trying to make money from customers or subscribers. Grind = "They'll stick around longer to try to get things." It's not meant to reward *us,* and makes no sense in our current setup.

[Darmian]

20 hours ago, cranebump said:

As an advocate of story-focused stuff, I should probably do my part and form more story arc teams

DO!  Lead a team through the entirety of Mobius!  OR...form a team that does that but don't take the star, just act as a tour guide for queries.

[nihilii]

Players primarily want reward merits because the Homecoming team purposefully chose to open almost everything to reward merits. i.e. some costume pieces used to be exclusive to Vanguard, now they're available to you at level 1. Reward merits were also improved in being able to trade for almost anything in the game, and costs lowered. They're almost as liquid as influence, save that you can't transfer them easily and that conversion tends to go in one direction. It's normal for people to converge to the most liquid currency.

 

I think extra currencies can make sense if you want to have extra levers to direct player activity. I can't see the paid business or free hobby game factoring much into that picture.

 

Nor even grind, for that matter. You could have a game with 30 different currencies where maxxing out each currency takes only 10 minutes of gameplay, and you could have another game with just one currency where maxxing out said currency would require 100 hours of gameplay.

 

There's nothing inherently evil about wanting to encourage people to experience a variety of content, even if some approaches are more heavy-handed than others.

 

Go to the logical extreme and remove all alternate currencies from CoH. No Vanguard merits. No reward merits. No incarnate threads or components. Influence replace all of these, at a rate at least as great as what is currently possible with the current options.

I guarantee you you'll see most of the playerbase in an AE farm. The easygoing nature of Homecoming when it comes to rewards has already encouraged a sizeable number of players to live in AE.

 

The more freedom of choice you give, the more people as a whole will choose the path of least resistance. It's only natural.

Ideally, players should be gently nudged towards options, without feeling like they're constrained. One man's grind is another person's incentive - and that first man's non-grind might cause a playerbase-wide convergence towards a select few activities that cause boredom in other players.

In conclusion, let's add a dynamic autorebalancing xp/inf multiplier on enemy factions based on how many of these mobs have been defeated the last week. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

 

[Snarky]

i led for a good season or so on live.  did not enjoy the experience.  recruiting is unrewarding and i prefer to be part of the chorus of common sense voices in a team saying no to +4 posi than the team leader trying to maintain authority over peeps that join a team and start telling you what is needed for the new world order.  plus, i'm a rogue.  that crap doesnt pay any extra

[Xenosone]

I ran teams alot on live. I ran theme teams on hc. Im simply bored. While i enjoy saving Hopkins from countess crey i can do it only so many times before i get frustrated with hour of glory from paragon protectors. 

[Rishidian]

On 3/17/2021 at 6:36 PM, twozerofoxtrot said:

"Be the change you want to see in the world."

       -Otto von Bismarck

I want to be a Silver Dollar.

But I usually end up being a bad penny.

 

I wouldn't mind leading.  I just don't know where to get the ITF's, or what levels they are.  So I end up soloing.

 

I suppose I need to keep a notebook on who offers what.  😞

[Andreah]

I consider running teams almost every time I'm logged on. The few times I have, I've wanted to quit almost immediately. I mean log off instantly.  And it's not anything anyone else has done or said, or might do or say, or anything.

 

I have the skills, knowledge, and ability to run teams. I just fundamentally don't like doing it.

 

When I have the star, I immediately am no longer having fun. I feel responsible for managing a team that's fun for the others, and that weighs on me. I'm naturally introverted, and that kind of position sucks the energy of life right out of me.

 

No amount of bonus loot, or experience, or badges, or anything like that will make it fun. I can't be bribed into finding it to be fun. That would only make me feel resentful. Why do I have to be paid to play a game in a role I detest, a game I ought to enjoy for its own sake?

 

Let the people who are natural leaders, who enjoy it, energize from it, and shine with it, continue to lead the teams. The rest of us should try to be good, gracious, and appreciative followers.

[Clave Dark 5]

I generally don't lead because I've seen a lot of teams lose people if there's any sort of delay, such as being slow with the recruiting (like three minutes of waiting and people can get bored and leave; less likely for TFs though), or me trying to guess what level of difficulty the mission is set for (gung-ho brutes leaving after one mission is set too low is something I've seen more than once.

 

But I do play at odd hours and know that there's enough people out there I could just go ahead and ask and get a full team.  I've considered doing it (my latest fifty needs a couple of TFs for the Taskforce Commander accolade).  I have led a few DfBs, because anyone can do that, ha ha.

[Ghost]

Depends upon the mood I'm in.

There have been times I will log off after 30 minutes of looking for a TF to join (that I'm interested in)

Sometimes I will put together a TF team.  Other times, I will put together and run several TFs - one right after the other.

 

The only time I do not like leading, is when I get bombarded with tells to join.

I invariably miss someone, or invite one too man, which causes me to feel bad for most of the run.

 

[Shred Monkey]

On 3/19/2021 at 4:19 AM, nihilii said:

In conclusion, let's add a dynamic autorebalancing xp/inf multiplier on enemy factions based on how many of these mobs have been defeated the last week. 

And on that day... There shall be such a game... A game where all content is created equal.  A game where people of all ATs and alignments seek out under-used content with the same desire, the same drive, the same unbridled fervor as they do their AE farms today.  And on that glorious day, how wonderful a game this will be.

[Icono04]

On 3/20/2021 at 1:51 AM, Andreah said:

I consider running teams almost every time I'm logged on. The few times I have, I've wanted to quit almost immediately. I mean log off instantly.  And it's not anything anyone else has done or said, or might do or say, or anything.

 

I have the skills, knowledge, and ability to run teams. I just fundamentally don't like doing it.

+1 to this

(bolded text my emphasis)

[Grindingsucks]

On 4/8/2021 at 7:25 AM, Icono04 said:

+1 to this

(bolded text my emphasis)

 

And you know what?  That's completely legitimate.  Some people really love to lead teams.  Other people don't.  This game is a recreational pastime that we participate in to have fun and relax.  If you find leading teams to be a drag (too boring, too stressful, whatever), there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with declining to do that.

 

If anyone who might be offended by that (I can't imagine why anyone would be) stops to think about it, I'm sure they would prefer to have a team leader that is enthusiastic and competent, rather than one who is reluctant and unhappy, as this can only diminish the team combat experience for everyone.

 

It's just a game, folks.  Let players play to their strengths and everyone should have a better time, as a result.  Trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole benefits no one.

[golstat2003]

9 hours ago, Grindingsucks said:

It's just a game, folks.  Let players play to their strengths and everyone should have a better time, as a result.  Trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole benefits no one.

 

I really wish all the folks posting the various "devs change the game to be what I think is the best playstyle" posters of the last month or so would read the bolded.

[Ukase]

On 3/19/2021 at 7:18 PM, Rishidian said:

I want to be a Silver Dollar.

But I usually end up being a bad penny.

 

I wouldn't mind leading.  I just don't know where to get the ITF's, or what levels they are.  So I end up soloing.

 

I suppose I need to keep a notebook on who offers what.  😞

Have you ever bothered to look? Have you ever bothered to ask? If not, why not? 

[Snarky]

11 hours ago, Grindingsucks said:

 

And you know what?  That's completely legitimate.  Some people really love to lead teams.  Other people don't.  This game is a recreational pastime that we participate in to have fun and relax.  If you find leading teams to be a drag (too boring, too stressful, whatever), there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with declining to do that.

 

If anyone who might be offended by that (I can't imagine why anyone would be) stops to think about it, I'm sure they would prefer to have a team leader that is enthusiastic and competent, rather than one who is reluctant and unhappy, as this can only diminish the team combat experience for everyone.

 

It's just a game, folks.  Let players play to their strengths and everyone should have a better time, as a result.  Trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole benefits no one.

I prefer my team leaders be miserable.  Warms my undead heart.

[Giovanni Valia]

A friend of mine wanted to do the LRSF a couple nights ago, so we recruited random people from [LFG]. He hadn't completed the patron arc on his character, so I ended up with the star.

 

The people that joined our team said nothing for the entire SF and rushed through to the end. I just don't find "speed-running"  to be any fun, and quite frankly I'm not sure what is really gained by playing that way. Do people really need merits that badly? Mid-way through the SF I'm already thinking, "Let's just get this over with." This sort of "IDC about game-play, I just want the reward" behavior really puts me off from leading teams.

[Lunchmoney]

On 3/20/2021 at 12:18 AM, Rishidian said:

I wouldn't mind leading.  I just don't know where to get the ITF's, or what levels they are.  So I end up soloing.

 

I suppose I need to keep a notebook on who offers what. 

Or ask. Here or in game.

Or open the HC wiki page. It's all there.

[CaptTastic]

5 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

A friend of mine wanted to do the LRSF a couple nights ago, so we recruited random people from [LFG]. He hadn't completed the patron arc on his character, so I ended up with the star.

 

The people that joined our team said nothing for the entire SF and rushed through to the end. I just don't find "speed-running"  to be any fun, and quite frankly I'm not sure what is really gained by playing that way. Do people really need merits that badly? Mid-way through the SF I'm already thinking, "Let's just get this over with." This sort of "IDC about game-play, I just want the reward" behavior really puts me off from leading teams.

This, for me, is a big problem. It wasn’t like it on Live and I wonder if it’s more a Discord thing, if people are now just used to talking their way through games on a headset. 
 

I remember using Team Speak back in the day, but typing was the rule, now it’s the exception. 
 

I find it really frustrating as Discord is hard for me. I have a stutter and play through the night mostly, when others in my house are asleep, and I don’t want to wake them up talking. 
 

I don’t mind leading at all btw. Actually quite enjoy it. But, as you say, trying to build a ‘team’ in terms of atmosphere and experience is the hardest part by far. 

[Lunchmoney]

39 minutes ago, CaptTastic said:

I wonder if it’s more a Discord thing

I've said it before and I'll say it again; if I find myself on a team that is silent as they are using voice chat, I'll politely leave. 

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, CaptTastic said:

This, for me, is a big problem. It wasn’t like it on Live and I wonder if it’s more a Discord thing, if people are now just used to talking their way through games on a headset. 
 

I remember using Team Speak back in the day, but typing was the rule, now it’s the exception. 
 

I find it really frustrating as Discord is hard for me. I have a stutter and play through the night mostly, when others in my house are asleep, and I don’t want to wake them up talking. 
 

I don’t mind leading at all btw. Actually quite enjoy it. But, as you say, trying to build a ‘team’ in terms of atmosphere and experience is the hardest part by far. 

It is not a Discord thing.  My SG was on Discord last night.  We ran MLTF LRTF ITF back to back.  It was mentioned in Discord some people struggle NOT to speed the first two specifically.  Because if you know the objectives, and know you can knock out an objective, why would you fight every mob on a two hour map instead of going and doing the objective?  We barely discussed the TFs.  We chatted and BS'd and joked.  Those three TFs in particular are very objective oriented.  No kill alls.  (unless you decide to do a kill most ITF....)  On kill most ITF PUG teams....not much team chat.  I have ran...a few.  There aint much except hi at the beginning, thanks at the end.  Maybe once or twice "over here" in the middle.

[Heraclea]

4 hours ago, CaptTastic said:

I find it really frustrating as Discord is hard for me. I have a stutter and play through the night mostly, when others in my house are asleep, and I don’t want to wake them up talking. 

 

I don’t mind leading at all btw. Actually quite enjoy it. But, as you say, trying to build a ‘team’ in terms of atmosphere and experience is the hardest part by far. 

I don't have a mic on the PC I usually play on, and don't want one either.  Chatting player voices breaks immersion for me.  It reminds me of bad games I quit playing because the encounters required so much coordination and catherding that they felt like a second job.  And I despise the Discord interface either on the app or on the web; is this something you're supposed to run on a smartphone or something?  I have it, but it's been more than a couple months since I logged in. 

[CaptTastic]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

It is not a Discord thing.  My SG was on Discord last night.  We ran MLTF LRTF ITF back to back.  It was mentioned in Discord some people struggle NOT to speed the first two specifically.  Because if you know the objectives, and know you can knock out an objective, why would you fight every mob on a two hour map instead of going and doing the objective?  We barely discussed the TFs.  We chatted and BS'd and joked.  Those three TFs in particular are very objective oriented.  No kill alls.  (unless you decide to do a kill most ITF....)  On kill most ITF PUG teams....not much team chat.  I have ran...a few.  There aint much except hi at the beginning, thanks at the end.  Maybe once or twice "over here" in the middle.

I meant the lack of atmosphere in a team compared to live was a Discord thing. SG teams a little different as most people know each other, but in general teaming there is very little (typing) talking compared to Live. Think that’s a shame really. 

[Giovanni Valia]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

There aint much except hi at the beginning, thanks at the end.  Maybe once or twice "over here" in the middle.

 

Yeah, that's a big problem for me. I doubt the random people I recruit on PUGs all happen to be in the same discord chat. The most enjoyable teams are those when everyone is engaged, interacting, and friend-ships are built. For me, CoX is supposed to be a social game. Especially when the combat is as easy as it is compared to other games.

 

Take away the social aspect and what is left? As I told my friend that night on the LRSF, it just felt "soulless" and really drained any enthusiasm I had for leading. I'm not sure what the solution is to this, and I'm not going to tell people how to play the game.

[Apparition]

12 hours ago, Giovanni Valia said:

A friend of mine wanted to do the LRSF a couple nights ago, so we recruited random people from [LFG]. He hadn't completed the patron arc on his character, so I ended up with the star.

 

The people that joined our team said nothing for the entire SF and rushed through to the end. I just don't find "speed-running"  to be any fun, and quite frankly I'm not sure what is really gained by playing that way. Do people really need merits that badly? Mid-way through the SF I'm already thinking, "Let's just get this over with." This sort of "IDC about game-play, I just want the reward" behavior really puts me off from leading teams.

 

I played on live from February 2005 through November 2012, with the exception of a break of one year in 2007.  I primarily played red side, and ran LRSF numerous, numerous times.  Up until last year, I had never, ever not sped through LRSF, even way before Incarnate abilities.  Neither had any friends of mine.  It's just the way LRSF was and is run.  Same for MLTF/STF.  Doing those two TFs/SFs non-speed is pretty much unheard of.  So for PUGs to assume a speed run for those two is pretty natural, IMO.  My friends and I ran a non-speed LRSF last year, and it felt weird.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Apparition

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Giovanni Valia said:

 

 

Take away the social aspect and what is left? As I told my friend that night on the LRSF, it just felt "soulless" and really drained any enthusiasm I had for leading. I'm not sure what the solution is to this, and I'm not going to tell people how to play the game.

That is why I run a vampire character and never lead.  I am just draining your life force away.  btw, thanks.  Delicious.