Focused Feedback: Enhancements

Communistpenguin · November 10, 2021

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

They actually can't be slotted into sprint. That's a detail that should be mentioned in the notes. Good catch.

gotcha, then yeah, kinda useless. If i am already rocking superspeed in combat, I dont usually worry about being slowed down too much.

Wavicle · November 10, 2021

I have to agree. The Thrust special seems pointless since there is no Combat Running power.

Wavicle · November 10, 2021

Honestly, the Launch special also seems pointless.

Overall, the specials in these travel sets do not seem worth slotting.

Wavicle · November 10, 2021

The intention with these sets was, I believe, to provide something to do with Travel Powers now that they benefit from slots.

However, the specials were designed to go in Combat movement powers (even though there is none for running).

I feel like this is a clear design flaw.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Wavicle

Booper · November 10, 2021

56 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

The intention with these sets was, I believe, to provide something to do with Travel Powers now that they benefit from slots.

However, the specials were designed to go in Combat movement powers (even though there is none for running).

I feel like this is a clear design flaw.

All the unique IOs were designed to be used in Travel Powers to benefit travel while also providing a utility if engaged in combat (either actively or passively. However, I agree with the concerns on Thrust. The benefit it provides when traveling out of combat is primarily an edge-case scenario. The advantage it gives in combat is mostly mitigated by your travel speed being suppressed when you attack. This would require you to use Sprint for in-combat speed while Super Speed is active and provides run resistance, which is a lot to ask of a player. I have an idea for replacing this effect, but it might not be available in the next patch.

As for the others, I will highlight what the unique IOs do for travel powers, but I'll also share other use-cases:

Hypersonic gives +2 Fly when flying and can be used in Mystic Flight, Fly, Hover, Group Fly, Evasive Maneuvers, etc. The +2.0 Fly will benefit any of these powers; however, it has the most efficient benefit in Mystic Flight and Fly. These powers go from having 1.0 Fly protection to 3.0 Fly protection, which is significant if this is the only form of Flight you are using (typically the case for Mystic Flight). Essentially, this is enough to absorb most -Fly debuffs (most -Fly debuffs are -2.0 or less). The split enhancement is also helpful in this case as you'll benefit most from enhanced fly speed in Flying travel powers.

Others may look at Hover and see the benefit of going from 4.0 Fly protection to 6.0 Fly protection, which is nice as some critter attacks do -5.0 Fly (not many, and most of them are melee attacks). This is a good use of the protection; however, the flying speed enhancement will not do much for Hover.
Some may look to pair the +2.0 Fly in Evasive Maneuvers. When Flying, this will make the Hover+EvMa combine for 10.0 Fly protection (nice try Web Grenades!), or you can pair Fly+EvMa for 7.0 Fly protection.
No matter what slotting choice is taken, all options are beneficial, which opens up many build choice options.

Launch gives +8' Jump Height and +40' Max Jump Height (200' is normally the cap). The Max Jump Height buff is beneficial to anyone who slots this IO into Super Jump or Mighty Leap. That's an extra 20% of hang-time that you'll have when traversing the map. The 8' Jump Height may not matter much to these powers given their large base values, but FWIW it is equivalent to 7.2% enhancement. On the flip-side of that, Infiltration is unlikely to benefit from the Max Jump Height as its base jump height is only 30.6'. Even with buffs and enhancements, you'll probably remain below the traditional 200' cap. However, the flat 8' jump height is equivalent to a 26.2% jump height buff (almost a free enhancement).

Others may look to two-slot wonder Combat Jumping with this IO. The base jump height of CJ is 8', so the IO would be equivalent to a 100% enhancement. Folks might slot the IO in CJ and leave it active while using Super Jump. This will provide the same benefits; however, at the cost of possibly being underslotted in SJ to reach the new 240' cap.

Warp gives +100' Perception. This effect should give you enough perception to detect enemies even at your max teleport range. Also, the split enhancement will go farther in buffing Teleport (base 350') than Combat Teleport (base 100').

The Warp IO is also useful for environments where perception debuffs are used. One of the common themes of superheroes who use teleportation, they often are accompanied by a secondary power of enhanced spatial awareness (helpful in avoiding telefraging). Anyways, in environments where your perception is debuffed significantly (e.g. 50'), still having an extra 100' of perception will almost feel like they never debuffed you.

Common in this Feedback thread (too many to quote), there has been feedback regarding "why not just make them global set bonuses"? A few reasons for that:

One, if you get a +2.0 Fly as a set bonus, you're never touching the ground again.

Two, these unique IOs should not be treated as things you slot into mule powers. If you want the benefit, you have to use the power.

Three, I wanted to allow those who do wish to "one-slot wonder" to boost the enhancement of the unique without fear of losing the bonus if they exemplar.
Finally, I wanted the buff to always work from level 1 to level 50. As long as you have the power, you can have the buff.

One of the other common feedback responses (too many to quote, so I'll speak to it generally and hope it finds you), these sets were not designed to become automatically better options than what was already available. They were designed purposely to allow players additional build options while not adding to power-creep. The intent was to have these sets fall between the Universal Travel sets (Blessing, Winter's) and the non-universal Travel IO sets (e.g. Freebird, Unbounded Leap, Celerity, etc). The two-slot and three-slot set bonuses are purposely weak to perform in-line with the non-universals while offering a significant four-slot set bonus to reward anyone willing to invest that many slots into a travel power.

When designing the set bonuses, the goal was to be thematic across sets by providing a Sustain (Regen, +HP, Recovery, EndDiscount), a Resistance, and a Defense. There are too many defense set bonus options in the game so I chose to make the Resistance the big reward and the others small rewards. This being said, I am always willing to listen to others' opinions. Below I will list out the three set bonus breakdowns that I considered.

2-piece | 3-piece | 4-piece
T2 Sustain | T2 Resistance (2.25%) | T3 Positional/Type Defense (2.5% / 1.25%)
T2 Sustain | T2 Resistance (2.25%) | T4 Type/Positional Defense (3.13% / 1.565%)
T2 Sustain | T1 Positional/Type (1.25% / 0.625%) | T5 Resistance (4.5%) (Current implementation)

If one of the other two options seems more appealing, I'll listen to those arguments and consider them; however they will have to be very good arguments to merit introducing more large defensive set bonuses into the game.

Sovera · November 10, 2021

31 minutes ago, Booper said:

All the unique IOs were designed to be used in Travel Powers to benefit travel while also providing a utility if engaged in combat (either actively or passively. However, I agree with the concerns on Thrust. The benefit it provides when traveling out of combat is primarily an edge-case scenario. The advantage it gives in combat is mostly mitigated by your travel speed being suppressed when you attack. This would require you to use Sprint for in-combat speed while Super Speed is active and provides run resistance, which is a lot to ask of a player. I have an idea for replacing this effect, but it might not be available in the next patch.

I can only speak for myself here. Your reasoning is sound, but I feel it is going to fall into the same trap as the pool powers and that is where the effort of balancing ends making something which is not touched.

Which is a pity considering the time and effort placed into these things.

While your reasoning is sound what I feel to be the bottomline remains: people are not going to spare a build's more precious commodity in slots with diluted uses. Which will make the IOs sit gathering dust once out of the testing phase.

Much like power pools where we don't go 'well, my build has no AoE until level X so I'll grab an AoE from the power pool (Acid Vial or whatever the name is)' or 'I lack a ST attack so I'll grab a ST power from the power pools' because the effort of balancing the power pools has made all powers bad. Bad enough that after the time and testing done they sit un-picked other than theme or, if the expression can be forgiven, by those who don't know better.

This is a game design choice because of not wanting a power pool to compete. Which to me does not make sense. It does not need to be better, it just needs to be alternative for builds who need it.

Back to the subject at hand this is my point. It doesn't have to a point of view everyone has or even be the majority, but, in practical terms it's how I feel it.

- Traveling is something we do for a short percentage of our gameplay time.

- Baseline travel power works fine unlike, for example, an attack that is going to be useless if we don't slot it's accuracy, recharge, damage, and endurance reduction.

- Slots are at a premium. Being at a premium something must not be slotted so that the slots be given to a travel power. Are people not going to slot their endurance? Or their attacks? This is the important thing.

Which brings me back to a substitute for Kinetic Combat. Or at least the reason why they are slotted. It's just one of the examples that could be used but I mention Kinetic Combat because it's one of those I throw willy nilly on things like Brawl and Punch/Kick.

Looking at the broad view on things that's what I'd recommend: what are people slotting the most? What could be a substituted for these new IOs? It does not have to be better than what is available, but if they can put the slots in something just for the bonuses they could put them in the travel power to obtain the same as an alternative. It does not need to replace it, because people can still place those slots in the original, but now they can choose and put them in travel powers.

Also, at some point consider DDR. We have -recharge already, but DDR eats resistance tanks. I would be making some tough decisions if DDR were available in the form of bonuses.

Luminara · November 10, 2021

22 minutes ago, Booper said:

If one of the other two options seems more appealing, I'll listen to those arguments and consider them; however they will have to be very good arguments to merit introducing more large defensive set bonuses into the game.

All of the travel powers (except Teleport) already cap with very little enhancement, and the set bonuses for 4-slotting the new travel sets are already easily obtained by adding one more slot to a power which a player would have at 5/6. The bonuses for slotting 4/4 don't really pay for that slot cost in comparison to those other slotting options. A 4.5% Resistance bonus can easily be obtained, for example, for the cost of one additional slot in a power which the player would otherwise slot with 5/6 of a set.

Why 4-slot Super Speed or Speed of Sound when one can already hit the Run Speed cap with two slots in the power, three or four +Movement Speed bonuses (all of which are acquired in the process of enhancing other powers more effectively than enhancing the travel power) and Sprint? Why invest heavily in Flight powers when the Flight Speed cap is achieved with practically no effort and the slots offer much greater return on investment from spreading them around? If players are going to "waste" slots by adding enhancements which provide no appreciable gain beyond their set bonuses, why would they do so by stuffing them into travel powers and gaining a single T5 bonus when they could gain three or four T5 bonuses by putting those slots into other powers?

It's not that the T5 bonuses are undesirable, it's that the slot investment doesn't pay off in comparison to existing options. If you expect players to use these new sets, you need to make them compelling. They have to be worth the slot cost. These aren't. If you give players a choice between "wasting" three slots on a travel power for a 4.5% Resistance bonus, or "wasting" 1 slot on another power for the same bonus, they're going to take the second option every time. Same with the +Range bonus. Yes, it's higher than the 2 piece 5% bonus offered by Bombardment, but the player can build up 15% +Range, twice what you're offering with the TP set, with 2/6 Bombardment in multiple Ranged AoE powers, or 10% if they're limited to two Ranged AoE attacks, which is still more +Range for a lower slot investment, and that's if they actually want +Range (it has a lower overall build value than other options, such as +Recharge).

GraspingVileTerror · November 10, 2021

To add to what the two above me are saying . . . perhaps if the 3-piece Bonuses were interesting, rather than Defense (or a pitifully small Endurance Discount in the case of Warp), then players -might- say to themselves "Well, already have the 3-piece Bonus, may as well grab the 4th."

I'd bump up the Endurance Discount on Warp, and switch the Defenses to things like Damage, Recharge, and/or . . . what else might not be abundant from other sources which people chase, aside from more Defense? Maybe a fat stack of +Max Endurance?

Luminara · November 10, 2021

34 minutes ago, GraspingVileTerror said:

To add to what the two above me are saying . . . perhaps if the 3-piece Bonuses were interesting, rather than Defense (or a pitifully small Endurance Discount in the case of Warp), then players -might- say to themselves "Well, already have the 3-piece Bonus, may as well grab the 4th."

I'd bump up the Endurance Discount on Warp, and switch the Defenses to things like Damage, Recharge, and/or . . . what else might not be abundant from other sources which people chase, aside from more Defense? Maybe a fat stack of +Max Endurance?

I wouldn't recommend any of those. 4 enhancements is just too far, even taking the Uniques/Globals into consideration. Travel power speed is hard-capped. Once a character is there, the character is there, and with all of the powers, set bonuses and other slotting options we have, we can get there without even trying, and certainly without 4-slotting our travel powers.

ED, on the other hand, still allows players to garner some small improvement when they're in the red. It may not be much, but not much improvement is better than no improvement at all. And that gives players a lot more incentive to use those slots in other ways. They can shave 0.11s off of the recharge time of a power, or reduce the endurance cost by another 0.2, or increase the Defense offered by 0.1%, and that may not be ZOMGSOAWESOME, it's still more than 0% increase from over-slotting a travel power, while also giving them the benefit of the same T5 bonus and doing so for a single slot.

@Booper is asking us to justify increasing the T5 bonuses, but even with T6 bonuses, these sets wouldn't justify usage beyond 2 or 3 pieces, and, frankly, the bonuses they offer at 2/4 and 3/4 aren't any better than what's already available in other travel sets. The final bonus has to be something the player couldn't obtain otherwise to make it worth over-slotting for travel speed, specifically because over-slotting for travel speed is the least beneficial use of slots. Every other possible use of those slots is superior. A 7.5% speed cap increase, so those slots wouldn't feel entirely wasted. A 1% bump to the hit chance cap, from 95% to 96%, would guarantee that the set with that bonus would be the single most popular set in the entire game. Some DDR, as @Sovera suggested. X% chance for 5s of 50% Endurance Discount. X% chance for +KnockUp on all attacks. Scaling Regeneration with HP loss. A Flemish Giant that appears and wiggles its nose at enemies. A 4s cameo appearance of Statesman's ghost giving the player a thumbs-up (dual finger guns would be more amusing). Animation/Activation Time reduction. Reduction of travel power cost to combat travel power cost when in combat. Removal of suppression. Replacing all attack animations with a Fonzie emote.

A 4 piece bonus for a travel power, which isn't going to benefit beyond 2 pieces, has to be not only desirable, but something the player can't exceed or replicate by spending two or three slots elsewhere. None of these sets offer anything that players can't pick up elsewhere, and due to the travel speed caps, they further encourage players to avoid using them. They should be 3 piece sets, or they should be reworked from the ground up to make them worth the 4th piece.

tidge · November 10, 2021

Some random points:

The only characters I have that (almost always) multi-slot "Travel powers" have Kinetics. I just wanted to make the point that it isn't strictly a Travel pool issue, even if it is just that for 95% of the characters made.

Would it be the end of the world to have the new Slow set be a PVP set, with commensurate bonuses? I feel that Slow and Threat powers really deserve either/both a PVP or/and Very Rare treatment. Do we simply not think those can be balanced in PVP play?

Edited November 10, 2021 by tidge

arcane · November 10, 2021

1 hour ago, tidge said:

Some random points:

The only characters I have that (almost always) multi-slot "Travel powers" have Kinetics. I just wanted to make the point that it isn't strictly a Travel pool issue, even if it is just that for 95% of the characters made.

Would it be the end of the world to have the new Slow set be a PVP set, with commensurate bonuses? I feel that Slow and Threat powers really deserve either/both a PVP or/and Very Rare treatment. Do we simply not think those can be balanced in PVP play?

Slows are pretty useless in PvP so it wouldn’t make a ton of sense. Taunt, maybe.

tidge · November 10, 2021

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Slows are pretty useless in PvP so it wouldn’t make a ton of sense. Taunt, maybe.

I'm thinking about them as "scale to any level, plus boosted".

BrandX · November 10, 2021

I can't say I would slot these sets, even with the suggestions I'm about to make, but some thoughts...

Why not go 2% Positional Defense and 1% Typed Defense? I say this, as it would seem to make the bonuses not only different than others, but it'd knock that second defense to 1% minimum, which would be nice.

Also, why not go a straight 5% on those Resistances. Want to give a little oomph to those who 4 slot a travel. Nice even 5%. It's like those 6 slot 6% Bonuses, but it's 1 less percent but 4 slotting travel powers.

Warp

2 Set) 10% Slow Resist

3 Set) 1.75% End Dicount

4 Set) 5% Psi/Toxic Resist

Seeing as how some Winter Sets have 10% Slow Resist at 2 Set Bonuses, it doesn't seem out of place and 5% Resist in the 4 Set Spot equals the others (4.5% if the 5% is just to high).

Could even switch Set 2 and 3 if needed.

All that said, if I find a build with the slots to spare, I'd feel tempted to 6 slot Infiltrate (will have to look into some Ninja Build perhaps)

scottocamp · November 11, 2021

The slow set looks great. Thank you!!

But I can't imagine ever using any of the travel sets. The unique enhancements and the set bonuses would have to be *much* better to even tempt me. I don't even see the need for more travel sets. Would be much cooler to get a purple fear set or better stun sets or better ranged sets. Or pretty much anything else besides more travel power sets. That said - if the set bonuses offered something like DDR or a 15% range bonus or 10% resistance to everything or something equally extraordinary then perhaps I would seriously ponder four slotting Super Jump. But the sets as presented I fear will be completely ignored. Which is kind of heart-breaking given the obvious effort put into them.

Killerhurtz · November 11, 2021

On the auction house, the new run enhancements are under Running, instead of Running & Sprints & the new jump enhancements are under Leaping instead of Leaping & Sprints

Edited November 11, 2021 by Killerhurtz

AboveTheChemist · November 11, 2021

1 hour ago, Killerhurtz said:

On the auction house, the new run enhancements are under Running, instead of Running & Sprints & the new jump enhancements are under Leaping instead of Leaping & Sprints

This is intended. From the April 27th, 2021 patch notes (specifically the last bullet):

On 4/27/2021 at 4:54 AM, Jimmy said:

Sprint / Run / Jump Invention Sets

Added a new IO set category: Sprints
Both existing Running sets (Celerity, Quickfoot) are now also in the Sprints category, and are listed as "Running & Sprints"

Both existing Leaping sets (Unbounded Leap, Springfoot) are now also in the Sprints category, and are listed as "Leaping & Sprints"

Sprint powers now only accept Sprint sets, not Running or Leaping sets

All other Running and Leaping powers are unaffected, and enhancement conversion only respects the original Running and Leaping categories

TL;DR: This has no impact on existing slotting, builds or conversion, we've made this change in order to be able to introduce new Running and Leaping sets in the future without having to balance around them being slotted in Sprint

Edited November 11, 2021 by AboveTheChemist

Replacement · November 13, 2021

Gonna go a different direction on my feedback:

How opposed would you be to adding some Recharge to all the travel sets except Hypersonic?

And... How opposed would you be to adding it without a decrease in scale (the way Heal/Absorb is full str both, or the universal travels are +full everything).

Reasoning: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=stalker_defense.ninjitsu.kuji-in_rin&at=stalker

I imagine in time, we will see something similar pop up elsewhere, such as SR> Practiced Brawler.

More:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.kinetics.speed_boost&at=defender

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.teleportation.teleport_foe

Booper · November 13, 2021

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

Gonna go a different direction on my feedback:

How opposed would you be to adding some Recharge to all the travel sets except Hypersonic?

And... How opposed would you be to adding it without a decrease in scale (the way Heal/Absorb is full str both, or the universal travels are +full everything).

Reasoning: https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=stalker_defense.ninjitsu.kuji-in_rin&at=stalker

I imagine in time, we will see something similar pop up elsewhere, such as SR> Practiced Brawler.

More:

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=defender_buff.kinetics.speed_boost&at=defender

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.teleportation.teleport_foe

Adding Recharge would decrease the scale. Also, in your examples, I don't know why anyone would want to slot a travel/recharge enhancement. For Kuji-Rin, the travel speed buff is only 5 mph. I think players who would wish to enhance that would rather use Universal Travel sets that way they buff both the run speed and jump speed. If recharge is desired, they should be looking at Damage Resistance sets where they can buff the 22.5% psionic resistance while also decreasing the cooldown of the power.

As for Speed Boost, the recharge time is already 2 seconds. I hope nobody ever feels the need to slot it with recharge reduction, especially now that it's an AoE buff.

Teleport Target (more specifically, Teleport Foe) could take advantage of recharge reduction, however I don't believe it's enough to justify giving a set the capability for a power that is not a travel power. I would recommend slotting the new Threat/Accuracy/Recharge DSOs instead (Accuracy/Range is available too).

Booper · November 13, 2021

On 11/10/2021 at 4:31 AM, GraspingVileTerror said:

To add to what the two above me are saying . . . perhaps if the 3-piece Bonuses were interesting, rather than Defense (or a pitifully small Endurance Discount in the case of Warp), then players -might- say to themselves "Well, already have the 3-piece Bonus, may as well grab the 4th."

I'd bump up the Endurance Discount on Warp, and switch the Defenses to things like Damage, Recharge, and/or . . . what else might not be abundant from other sources which people chase, aside from more Defense? Maybe a fat stack of +Max Endurance?

I'm not against "more interesting" set bonuses, so long as it's thematic (no offensive bonuses). There just aren't that many "interesting" set bonuses to choose from. A 5% Slow Resistance could be one, 4.5%-6% Movement Speed could be another. Those two fit thematically with a Travel set. Even for the sustains, a Max Endurance of 1.35% could be considered. Now, all of these numbers are assuming the resistance is still the T5, so these are of the T2 variety. I did asked earlier if anyone would rather have a different set of bonuses from the three I considered (where resistance became a T2 3-set bonus) but there have been no suggestions for those other options.

Replacement · November 13, 2021

3 hours ago, Booper said:

Adding Recharge would decrease the scale. Also, in your examples, I don't know why anyone would want to slot a travel/recharge enhancement. For Kuji-Rin, the travel speed buff is only 5 mph. I think players who would wish to enhance that would rather use Universal Travel sets that way they buff both the run speed and jump speed. If recharge is desired, they should be looking at Damage Resistance sets where they can buff the 22.5% psionic resistance while also decreasing the cooldown of the power.

As for Speed Boost, the recharge time is already 2 seconds. I hope nobody ever feels the need to slot it with recharge reduction, especially now that it's an AoE buff.

Teleport Target (more specifically, Teleport Foe) could take advantage of recharge reduction, however I don't believe it's enough to justify giving a set the capability for a power that is not a travel power. I would recommend slotting the new Threat/Accuracy/Recharge DSOs instead (Accuracy/Range is available too).

For Kuji-in Rin, I was more thinking about something like one of the uniques + recharge + 2-piece set bonus, then 2 pieces of a resist set to get the rest of the needed recharge and another set bonus.

Basically, a reason to actually slot the set types this power.

For speed boost - my bad, that should've been Siphon Speed but it turns out it doesn't even take travel sets.

And despite the link text, that teleport power was actually Combat Teleport (funny unchanging internal names).

But ah well, maybe we'll eventually get some new sets specifically for the recharge cases instead. For example... When you create a class of sets for teleport target and fold space... 😅

tidge · November 13, 2021

3 hours ago, Booper said:

Adding Recharge would decrease the scale. Also, in your examples, I don't know why anyone would want to slot a travel/recharge enhancement.

(Existing) Travel power sets can be slotted in Kinetics powers. Maybe someone wants Inertial Reduction up sooner?

Edited November 13, 2021 by tidge

Booper · November 13, 2021

12 minutes ago, tidge said:

(Existing) Travel power sets can be slotted in Kinetics powers. Maybe someone wants Inertial Reduction up sooner?

That is a good example. Although the power's effects are already permanent without recharge.

Booper · November 13, 2021

25 minutes ago, Replacement said:

And despite the link text, that teleport power was actually Combat Teleport (funny unchanging internal names).

You're right. I typed in the name and didn't check the internal name. Given the charges and the relatively short cooldown, it seems as a power not many would feel compelled to slot recharge reduction for.

neuropsych · November 13, 2021

Question about the new DSOs: if a power doesn't normally allow a particular enhancement to be slotted, would slotting DSO still affect that stat? For example, Assault allows endurance reduction, but not damage one. If one were to slot the damage/endurance reduction DSO, would assault's damage be boosted?

EDIT: and also same question for Build up: would slotting the damage/recharge DSO boost the damage, even though build up normally doesn't take damage enhancements?

Edited November 13, 2021 by neuropsych

DreadShinobi · November 13, 2021

16 hours ago, Booper said:

I'm not against "more interesting" set bonuses, so long as it's thematic (no offensive bonuses). There just aren't that many "interesting" set bonuses to choose from. A 5% Slow Resistance could be one, 4.5%-6% Movement Speed could be another. Those two fit thematically with a Travel set. Even for the sustains, a Max Endurance of 1.35% could be considered. Now, all of these numbers are assuming the resistance is still the T5, so these are of the T2 variety. I did asked earlier if anyone would rather have a different set of bonuses from the three I considered (where resistance became a T2 3-set bonus) but there have been no suggestions for those other options.

Here are some questions, thoughts, and considerations I have about the new travel IOs @Booper. These are more specific to run/jump/fly and not the teleport IOs which I will not comment on. This post will also not comment on the specifics around the unique proc in each set, though to put it out of the way I think there is some serious room for improvement there.

You've stated that the purpose of these IOs is to bring some combat viability to continuing use of your travel power. The set bonuses I would consider for this would be recovery based, both +recovery and +endurance. Do something unique? Put both +recov and +maxend in the same set. The specific set bonuses are less important than the combination of them together. If a player is investing 4(!) slots into their travel power it needs to be for something they cannot find elsewhere. This makes keeping your travel power toggled on during combat less punishing by having the endurance sustain available to not care if you have an extra and expensive toggle active. I would also consider changing the 4th IO to endurance/proc rather than travel/proc even if it is ramming the ED cap. Ramming the ED cap on +jump/run/fly is generally just not helpful.

The other set bonus I would consider is a run/jump/fly set bonus. These are pretty common at 2 slot investment and I love them. These set bonuses are _unsuppressed_ movement speed which improves the combat quality of your movement. 7.5% at 2 slots or 9% at 3 slots.

There are so many options for resistance set bonuses that can be acquired by putting your slots into powers that actually need the enhancement, like primary/secondary powers. If that same slot is going to be considered for a travel power it doesn't need to be better, it just needs to do something unique that you can't acquire by putting those slots elsewhere where that single slot has dual function (enhancement+set bonus). With this set at a 4pc investment into a travel power the set bonus is weighted heavier than the actual enhancement value. Think of it similarly to kinetic combat slotting into brawl/boxing. It is worth putting those slots into an attack like brawl because you can't replicate it elsewhere in the build. A 4.5% resistance buff is neither a build necessity nor is it so slot worthy that you would give up a slot in a power that gets actual usage /and/ provides a set bonus (or proc in a used power).

I also really don't at all see how a resistance set bonus is thematic for travel powers. +end, +recov, +unsuppressed move make more sense to me. So does +def set bonuses (you're faster so you are harder to target/hit), but wouldn't this set be great if it was made to be great without +def set bonuses which BotZ already offers?

Now I know this may be a less than desirable choice of action, but is revamping these new sets to be 3 pc sets something that is off the table? You may find all things to be generally more agreeable if one of the new IOs in each set was nixed. Yes, more options are great, and there is nothing wrong with that, but you already have an overwhelming amount of feedback that a 4pc IO set for a travel power serves little purpose. People would like there set bonuses to come from enhancements that actually do something for the power that they are slotted in, that would be why they are called set bonuses.

Also, in the post quoted above you mention looking at 4.5%-6% move set bonus, 5% slow resist, and 1.35% max end. Why are you set on lowballing the values here? As detailed above these are set bonuses that you are putting a precious slot towards that do little for your character other than provide a set bonus. There are many(!) precedents in existing sets that show 7.5% move/jump/fly set bonus is just fine as a 2pc set bonus and these actually find usage. Feels good. 9% coming in hot with winters gift, and seriously I cannot remember the last time I have seen a build on these forums that has 3 pc winters gift slotted. This is very important because it shows how unattractive that resistance bonus pick up actually is when the cost is a slot into your travel power. Nobody is going to be looking at 5% slow resist when you get 15% from winter sets, often at 2 or 3pc, and 20% from winters gift one slot wonder, which is hardly a universal pickup. Put a 5% slow resist on these IOs and you accelerate their quicksell to a vendor. Max end? Well it would be really nice to see 2.25% at the 3 or 4 pc alongside a 0.04% recovery buff at the 2 pc.

tldr:

+move

+move/+endredux

+endredux

+endredux/proc

----or revamp to 3 pc set.

set bonus

2 pc - 0.04 recov

3 pc - 9% run/jump/fly

4 pc - 2.25% max end

tc.

Edited November 13, 2021 by DreadShinobi

Sign In

Focused Feedback: Enhancements

Recommended Posts

Communistpenguin

Wavicle

Wavicle

Wavicle

Booper

Sovera

Luminara

GraspingVileTerror

Luminara

tidge

arcane

tidge

BrandX

scottocamp

Killerhurtz

AboveTheChemist

Replacement

Booper

Booper

Replacement

tidge

Booper

Booper

neuropsych

DreadShinobi

Browse

Activity

Game Account

Wikis