Focused Feedback: Stone Armor - Revamp and Proliferation

[Yellowjacket]

20 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

I would love to see a crystal version of Granite.

It can't be that hard to use one of the crystal models from DE right? Could be an animation issue, but it seems like they have regular rigging.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Yellowjacket

[Generator]

11 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Also, how is there no cacophony about the biggest change to Granite armor!? YOU CAN JUMP!!! Has anyone tested whether the jump height is affected by enhancements or buffs?? When I tried it out, my first reaction was wow, but now after using it a bit I think the curb hop height is appropriate.

It's been so long since I fooled with Stone Armor, so if I'm talking nonsense please go easy on me.

 

I forget if Rooted had the same can't-jump schtick as Granite.  If it did, can Rooted also be able to curb-hop now?

 

(Haven't had a chance to check on this, been a busy weekend.)

[Glacier Peak]

41 minutes ago, Generator said:

It's been so long since I fooled with Stone Armor, so if I'm talking nonsense please go easy on me.

 

I forget if Rooted had the same can't-jump schtick as Granite.  If it did, can Rooted also be able to curb-hop now?

 

(Haven't had a chance to check on this, been a busy weekend.)

The HC Team did a tweak to Rooted last page update where Rooted no longer has the penalties of -movement, though it's power effects only work while... well Rooted lol

[InvaderStych]

On 11/2/2021 at 12:15 PM, Booper said:

The DoT effect has a chance to critical hit for Scrappers.

 

Many thanks to the magical person/people who made this design decision and made it possible, btw.

 

 

Kinda hope it is a sign of things to come for scrapper secondaries. 😉

[Dispari]

Minor typo for Geode, end of the first sentence. It should say "absorb incoming damage while you heal AND recover endurance at an incredible rate." The icon is also that of a pet power, which I don't think is very appropriate. The icon for Hibernate (also Granite) would be more appropriate. It's not like you're going to get the power confused with another one you can't have.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Dispari

[Dispari]

For Geode, this might just be me but this thing is a bit too big! It scales on character height, so if you're 8 feet tall...

[Captain Powerhouse]

40 minutes ago, Dispari said:

The icon is also that of a pet power, which I don't think is very appropriate.

 

Geode IS a pet. You can even target it, and enemies can kill it. If it dies, your geode buff is canceled.

[Dispari]

Hmmmm. That IS a decent point. You're right. Even though I knew it was a pet I wasn't thinking of it as one so much as armor.

[Vanden]

Yeah, it’s a weird icon, but for what the power does I do think it works.

[Fiery_Deception]

Haven't tested the Stone Armor changes, but they look great and cannot wait to try it out on both scrappers and brutes/tankers. However looking at the rework I do have one minor nitpick about Rooted:

 

On 11/2/2021 at 3:15 PM, Booper said:

  Rooted  Toggle: Self +Res(Knockback, Sleep, Disorient, Hold, End Drain, DeBuff DEF), +Regeneration

• While this power is active, you merge with the Earth and draw forth its power to become resistant to Knockback, Sleep, Hold, Disorient and Endurance Drain effects, and increase your Hit Point Regeneration rate. Rooted also grants you resistance to Defense DeBuffs.

 

Can you PLEASE remove the white circle around the icon since the ability is not a PBAoE? The icon was never updated on retail and since this is getting an update it would be nice if the icon reflected what it actually does.

 

Thanks for all the hard work you guys do!

 

 

 

 

[Lazarus]

OK so i spent the past 2 days playing around with this set on a scrapper.

Just for clarification i have on TORCH a 50 decked stone tanker built for "NON GRANIT" and a high lvl brute .

MY though are

 

- STONE SKIN,  very nice change,..balances out the hole set,..

 

- BRIMESTONE ARMOR,..also a very welocme change,..whats the proc % ?,..varies be cast time i know but it also has to fallow a formula,. This i tested with BOXING and would get from 0-3 procs.  AND the damage is what value? 

 

- CRYSTAL ARMOR,. another good change buuut,..20% is to low,..its needs 30% falt out,.  AT 20% its giveing only .33 per second,..with 6 toggles running BEFORE even looking at leadership or fighting,. endurance consumption is around 1.5 end/sec,.  increase to 30%

 

-MINERALS, nice  change of +15% recharge

 

-EARTHS EMBRACE, again a welocme change,..PERHAPS you cold help off set the large END consumption by also adding some ENDURANCE,.SAY 10 PTS? JUST A THOUHGT

 

-GEODE,..oh boy where to begin,..first its   B I I I I G,...second if its a pet is there a no collision mechanic?  I can see people blocking hallways,..doors,..caves with this thing.

 

ONE other finale though,. With so many good picks in this set STONE ARMOR eats ALOT of enhancement slots,..i mean a lot.

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by Lazarus

[ivanhedgehog]

21 hours ago, Arcadio said:

I wish minerals could be used with granite. I can appreciate that stone is much stronger outside granite now, but I wish granite was a little less harsh still... The defenses are amazing, but most armor sets can be built for that level of mitigation. While it's still nowhere near as easy to make up for the granite penalties. 

They could lower some of the disadvantages. other sets can hit cap easily that dont get kneecapped.

[Ice Ember]

Slots on a tank which is not played primarily in Granite are a premium.  Very few left over for attacks and pools.  The changes as proposed make playing in regular armors and not Granite more appealing.  My stone tank was made to use set bonuses and to not be in granite full time So I will look forward to these changes. 

Will Stone Skin get +5% defense to Psi as stated below?  I doubt it because Granite did not have it to begin with.  I would prefer resistance to Psi be added though...

 

Stone Skin

• The following stats were moved to Stone Skin from Granite:
• Added Resistance against Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative and Toxic damage. +10%/7.5% for Tankers and Brutes respectively.
• Added Defense to all but toxic. +5%/3.75% for Tankers and Brutes respectively.
• This power should now accept Defense enhancements and sets.
  
  Granite
• Players should now be able to do small 1.5ft high jumps while in granite form. This is high enough to jump some small bench-sized ledges, but not enough to jump over enemies or fences.
• The following stats were moved to Stone Skin from Granite:
  • Resistance against Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative and Toxic damage reduced by 10%/7.5% for Tankers and Brutes respectively.
  • Defense lowered by 5%/3.75 for Tankers and Brutes respectively.
    
     

Edited November 8, 2021 by Ice Ember

[Glacier Peak]

33 minutes ago, Ice Ember said:

Slots on a tank which is not played primarily in Granite are a premium.  Very few left over for attacks and pools.  The changes as proposed make playing in regular armors and not Granite more appealing.  My stone tank was made to use set bonuses and to not be in granite full time So I will look forward to these changes. 

Will Stone Skin get +5% defense to Psi as stated below?  I doubt it because Granite did not have it to begin with.  I would prefer resistance to Psi be added though...

 

Stone Skin

• The following stats were moved to Stone Skin from Granite:
• Added Resistance against Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative and Toxic damage. +10%/7.5% for Tankers and Brutes respectively.
• Added Defense to all but toxic. +5%/3.75% for Tankers and Brutes respectively.
• This power should now accept Defense enhancements and sets.
  
  Granite
• Players should now be able to do small 1.5ft high jumps while in granite form. This is high enough to jump some small bench-sized ledges, but not enough to jump over enemies or fences.
• The following stats were moved to Stone Skin from Granite:
  • Resistance against Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative and Toxic damage reduced by 10%/7.5% for Tankers and Brutes respectively.
  • Defense lowered by 5%/3.75 for Tankers and Brutes respectively.

I'm not sure where you see Psi defense would be added. Granite never had defense to Psi, so there wouldn't be anything to transfer to Stone Skin. Patch notes are just saying that portion of Granite's resists/defense was transferred to Stone Skin.

[BrandX]

19 hours ago, Lazarus said:

OK so i spent the past 2 days playing around with this set on a scrapper.

Just for clarification i have on TORCH a 50 decked stone tanker built for "NON GRANIT" and a high lvl brute .

MY though are

 

- STONE SKIN,  very nice change,..balances out the hole set,..

 

- BRIMESTONE ARMOR,..also a very welocme change,..whats the proc % ?,..varies be cast time i know but it also has to fallow a formula,. This i tested with BOXING and would get from 0-3 procs.  AND the damage is what value? 

 

- CRYSTAL ARMOR,. another good change buuut,..20% is to low,..its needs 30% falt out,.  AT 20% its giveing only .33 per second,..with 6 toggles running BEFORE even looking at leadership or fighting,. endurance consumption is around 1.5 end/sec,.  increase to 30%

 

-MINERALS, nice  change of +15% recharge

 

-EARTHS EMBRACE, again a welocme change,..PERHAPS you cold help off set the large END consumption by also adding some ENDURANCE,.SAY 10 PTS? JUST A THOUHGT

 

-GEODE,..oh boy where to begin,..first its   B I I I I G,...second if its a pet is there a no collision mechanic?  I can see people blocking hallways,..doors,..caves with this thing.

 

ONE other finale though,. With so many good picks in this set STONE ARMOR eats ALOT of enhancement slots,..i mean a lot.

 

 

That's what I love and feel all sets should.  Good picks all around!  Hard to give up!

[Ice Ember]

3 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

I'm not sure where you see Psi defense would be added. Granite never had defense to Psi, so there wouldn't be anything to transfer to Stone Skin. Patch notes are just saying that portion of Granite's resists/defense was transferred to Stone Skin.

The part where it says ALL

 

Added Defense to all but toxic. +5%/3.75% for Tankers and Brutes respectively.

[Glacier Peak]

26 minutes ago, Ice Ember said:

The part where it says ALL

 

Added Defense to all but toxic. +5%/3.75% for Tankers and Brutes respectively.

I don't see Psi there either. If you're trying to say the patch notes need clarified, that's fine.

[Ice Ember]

32 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I don't see Psi there either. If you're trying to say the patch notes need clarified, that's fine.

Will Stone Skin get +5% defense to Psi as stated below?  I doubt it because Granite did not have it to begin with.  I would prefer resistance to Psi be added though...

 

That is why I was asking a question.  I thought it was pretty clear. 

[InvaderStych]

On 11/7/2021 at 1:04 PM, Lazarus said:

BRIMESTONE ARMOR,..also a very welocme change,..whats the proc % ?,..varies be cast time i know but it also has to fallow a formula,. This i tested with BOXING and would get from 0-3 procs.  AND the damage is what value? 

 

I'd also love to see what info @Booper and Company would be willing to share with the class about Brimstone's dmg proc.

 

Some anecdotal stuff:

 

Seems to be 0-3 tics with a "cancel on miss" or similar effect.  I thought at first the patch notes reference to "(scales from 0-3 seconds)" was the DoT duration from Brimstone, but now I realize that actually means that the dmg scale caps at 3s activation time; anything longer doesn't increase dmg any further if I understand it correctly.

 

It does feel like the "Ranged Scale" modifier is a bit low.  Impale's (Spines) Brimstone bonus felt quite low for the activation time after having done light experimentation with Hammer, Rad, Savage, and Spines in that order.  For Throw Spines it was pretty abysmal.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by InvaderStych
spoke too soon

[ivanhedgehog]

This might come out wrong, but why have a t9 that you dont want people to take? Back in I7 stone tanks were the toughest, but paid a price for that. Now, anyone can get those stats and not pay a price. Which is why very few actually run stone tanks. I could see them removing the -damage from granite. the other disadvantages are bad enough to make running out of granite worthwhile, while not leaving granite as a worthless appendage.

[Wavicle]

48 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

This might come out wrong, but why have a t9 that you dont want people to take? Back in I7 stone tanks were the toughest, but paid a price for that. Now, anyone can get those stats and not pay a price. Which is why very few actually run stone tanks. I could see them removing the -damage from granite. the other disadvantages are bad enough to make running out of granite worthwhile, while not leaving granite as a worthless appendage.

Granite is great with a build of mostly SOs or Common IOs. There are often powers that are intended to be great while leveling but not as important with a kitted out 50. Some Armor set emergency buttons are among those powers.

 

 But that said, I still basically agree with you.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Wavicle

[Zepp]

Done some testing... I tested Granite and non-Granite builds on Brutes. It seems that the non-Granite build is more viable than on live. The Granite build barely changes, except for the jump.

 

The non-granite build is now a good option for a hasten-free build, whereas the Granite build still requires a rock-solid high recharge build to be viable.

 

Overall, it seems like the changes make Rock Armor similar to other armor sets in that the T9 is now basically there as a mule or something to place if you have an extra slot to fill.

I like that non-Granite builds are now more competitive with other armor sets, I am nor sure how I feel about Granite armor being basically an Oh S! power that is mostly useless. Geode is an interesting alternate power for Scrappers, although I probably won't take it either.

I really like the minimal effects options, although it does look a little hodgepodge if you are running all the toggles...

[Sovera]

To be honest the -dmg of Granite makes little sense. We turn into a giant who swings fists the size of boulders. If anything the -recharge could say but instead it's a PLUS 30% damage... which overall may be moot because of the -recharge.

[JayboH]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:55 AM, InvaderStych said:

 

Many thanks to the magical person/people who made this design decision and made it possible, btw.

 

 

Kinda hope it is a sign of things to come for scrapper secondaries. 😉

Hell yes!

 

Scrappers get completely screwed when it comes to damage auras when compared to the other two melee classes that tend to get them.  Brutes get fury damage, tanks get 50% larger AOEs.  Scrappers?  Scrappers get nothing, no crits at all, making them get the worst melee damage auras possible, which does not seem right since they have lower survivability.

[Myrmidon]

On 11/7/2021 at 1:42 AM, Super Atom said:

 

instead players respec'd out of the armor set and now you barely see them, unicorn armor set.

That’s definitely going to change.

 

 

Excellent work, Captain.