Don't mezz me bro. Gimme gimme.

[Solarverse]

On 11/23/2021 at 2:13 PM, Neiska said:

 but this game is very much designed as "play your way."

 

It wasn't always "play your way" it became play your way over the years as players complained their way to the game becoming that way.  The game used to be, "This is the game, take it or leave it" but sadly players complained it in to what it has become...the ultimate instant gratification game.

Those of us who appreciated the game for what it was, lost that game and had to settle for what the instant gratification players created. So yeah, there are some of us who will ALWAYS be a bit salty about that. Just like there are players who are salty about the Original Devs going through insane amounts of trouble to end PLing, just to turn right around and open up a huge can of worms with allowing AE to allow players to do the same damn thing. It makes you wonder, what was the point in ending all the ambush mobs in all the mission and putting aggro caps on players if they are just going to turn around and make AE to where people can abuse the hell out of that too? Yet we are fine with AE power leveling? The power leveling in this game has gotten way out of hand as it is. The over abundance of Power Leveling is starting to have a negative affect it would seem based on countless threads I have seen popping up. It shows when we finally get some challenging content in the game and players are already complaining about the content being challenging. IMO Power Leveling has spoiled players rotten, they don't even want a challenge anymore. They want everything just handed to them, this is apparent when you see more players requesting AE than you do players requesting mission teams.

[Apparition]

8 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

 

It wasn't always "play your way" it became play your way over the years as players complained their way to the game becoming that way.  The game used to be, "This is the game, take it or leave it" but sadly players complained it in to what it has become...the ultimate instant gratification game.

Those of us who appreciated the game for what it was, lost that game and had to settle for what the instant gratification players created. So yeah, there are some of us who will ALWAYS be a bit salty about that. Just like there are players who are salty about the Original Devs going through insane amounts of trouble to end PLing, just to turn right around and open up a huge can of worms with allowing AE to allow players to do the same damn thing. It makes you wonder, what was the point in ending all the ambush mobs in all the mission and putting aggro caps on players if they are just going to turn around and make AE to where people can abuse the hell out of that too? Yet we are fine with AE power leveling? The power leveling in this game has gotten way out of hand as it is. The over abundance of Power Leveling is starting to have a negative affect it would seem based on countless threads I have seen popping up. It shows when we finally get some challenging content in the game and players are already complaining about the content being challenging. IMO Power Leveling has spoiled players rotten, they don't even want a challenge anymore. They want everything just handed to them, this is apparent when you see more players requesting AE than you do players requesting mission teams.

 

That’s because when Homecoming first started, many, many players went “I want all of my 50s back *NOW*!” and just PLed to their hearts’ content, without thinking about nor caring about what permanent damage that would do the game, especially to new players.  “Meh, it’s an ancient game.  Who cares?  New players will figure it out.”

[Solarverse]

On 11/24/2021 at 12:43 AM, Greycat said:

 

You think that's new players complaining how cakewalk-easy the game's gotten, huh...

 

I'm as old school of a player as they come, I complain about how easy the game has gotten and fought against it tooth and nail the entire time players kept complaining and wanting it to be easier. I fought against the debt cap being lowered, I fought against AE, I fought against free inspirations upon leveling, I fought against level rezes, I fought against aggro limits, I fought against removal of ambushes, I fought against IO's and set bonuses, I fought against Incarnates, I fought against Hollows being changed from an actual Hazard Zone to the playground that it is today....none of it mattered. I have watched this game go from being challenging to EZPZ over the years in defeat of the self gratification masses that out numbered me.

[cotesan]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:26 PM, Troo said:

No risk, all reward.. it's what players want.

 

Why unlock anything by playing the game anymore? Incarnate content.. ha, just farm your way there.

 

Here have some new costume pieces, some new difficulty settings, new power sets, new content, new IO sets..

 

All we have to do is show up!

 

Thanks Homecoming.

 

not all players play the same

or want the  same things

 

 

Absolutely agree. Play your character, earn some things by playing.. imagine that?? 
not into the everyone gets a trophy culture. 

[Without_Pause]

(looks at thread complaining about farming)

 

(goes back to soloing lowbies on +0/x1 without 2x XP boosters)

Edited December 1, 2021 by Without_Pause

[roleki]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

 

is this not what Council are for? 

 

Hey, if I want to walk into an office building door and find myself in a sewer fighting re-skinned Nazis, I'd just go to work.  

[Coyotedancer]

*does an extra farm run (or ten) just to annoy the curmudgeons*

 

Do keep in mind that for some of us, farming really, honestly is part of the fun of the game. It's not about participation trophies or even leveling other people's noobs. It's just something that we enjoy. Just like you guys enjoy drudge-walking ten miles in the snow. Barefoot. Uphill. Both ways. Carrying ten pounds of rocks. 😝

[Rishidian]

Things are not the way I wish they were.

 

They are just the way they are.

 

--Borrowed from Rich Mullins

[biostem]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:26 PM, Troo said:

Here have some new costume pieces

I've never been a fan of locking costume pieces behind certain achievements or such, except maybe some faction logos/symbols.

[Neiska]

5 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

It wasn't always "play your way" it became play your way over the years as players complained their way to the game becoming that way.  The game used to be, "This is the game, take it or leave it" but sadly players complained it in to what it has become...the ultimate instant gratification game.
 

 

 

Fair, and live was before my time. That said, however,

 

People are free to enjoy the game as they please. Both back then as well as now. I mean, you can try to pigeonhole people much as you like, but not everyone will enjoy the same content as everyone else. At this point, removing the AE would do more harm than good. Personally, I like AE. It lets me try out many builds, as well as have the money to fund them, without having to sink in a year per character. Now you may not like this. Which is 100% fine!

 

But let's not act like that's ruining the game here. I mean, that makes as much since as a die-hard base builder saying "anyone who doesn't spend 8 hours a day building bases is playing the game wrong, and all non-base building activities needs to be nerfed." Doesn't that sound silly? 

 

I do hasten to add that while I appreciate your dedication to "the classic" game, things change. Players change. Peoples ages, life circumstances, preferences, all change. I would argue that if the "slow mode" of leveling was the "only" way to play available, the game may not have exploded as it did when launched. To be fair, we will never know. 

 

And I disagree this game is "instant gratification". I mean, I have spent nearly a year now trying different Mastermind builds. I even made a farming guide for them. Even now I am still experimenting, testing ideas, trying new things. None of that would have been possible without AE or Farming. And these days I spend more time tinkering in mids, brainstorming builds, and testing them, than I do much else.

 

I guess my point is - Not everyone runs all the story missions. Not everyone collects badges. Not everyone plays all the raids. Not everyone even teams. I would say that there is a good chunk of people who do their own thing - whatever that activity is.

 

But I can almost guarantee you that the "these new peoples are spoiling everything" opinion doesn't help matters, it can come off as elitist/gatekeeping. Not to sound personal here but, who exactly are you to lecture other players on how to play? Or what to enjoy? Or even what "the real game" was? I would bet that each issue/patch that launched, it was received with mixed results. Some liked it, some didn't. But obviously, the "game" is still alive here and now, even if you dislike the changes. Like them or not, this is "the real game" now. 

 

So I will continue to go by "live and let live."

 

None of this is meant as a personal attack against you or anyone personally, I only needed to bring context. Best wishes!

[golstat2003]

Play the game how you like. The ASF release has options for increased difficulty and more content well get that. Set it to Relentless and have at it.

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, Coyotedancer said:

*does an extra farm run (or ten) just to annoy the curmudgeons*

 

Do keep in mind that for some of us, farming really, honestly is part of the fun of the game. It's not about participation trophies or even leveling other people's noobs. It's just something that we enjoy. Just like you guys enjoy drudge-walking ten miles in the snow. Barefoot. Uphill. Both ways. Carrying ten pounds of rocks. 😝

 

I'll do the same next time I'm in game.

 

*does an extra farm run (or ten) just to annoy the curmudgeons*

 

Imagine that . .  . actually enjoying farming. Crazy right. It's like different players like different things. Who knew!!!

 

(yes I know the sarcasm meter is turned up to 11 on that one. ha ha)

[Without_Pause]

4 hours ago, Rishidian said:

Things are not the way I wish they were.

 

They are just the way they are.

 

--Borrowed from Rich Mullins

Can't say I ever expected a Rich Mullins reference here.

[Troo]

Terms that trigger folks:

farm

unlock

bro

 

I merely mentioned them in a 'thanks HC.' topic.

 

Sure, there are undercurrents of larger topics and potential sarcasm.. but it's not so easy to write in a fashion that is left to the readers interpretation. AND come up with a epic t-shirt.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Troo

[Clave Dark 5]

18 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I'm as old school of a player as they come, I complain about how easy the game has gotten and fought against it tooth and nail the entire time players kept complaining and wanting it to be easier. I fought against the debt cap being lowered, I fought against AE, I fought against free inspirations upon leveling, I fought against level rezes, I fought against aggro limits, I fought against removal of ambushes, I fought against IO's and set bonuses, I fought against Incarnates, I fought against Hollows being changed from an actual Hazard Zone to the playground that it is today....none of it mattered. I have watched this game go from being challenging to EZPZ over the years in defeat of the self gratification masses that out numbered me.

That tells me your a very combative person.

[The_Warpact]

10 hours ago, Troo said:

Terms that trigger folks:

farm

unlock

bro

 

I did not really bag on any of these, merely mentioned them in a 'thanks HC.' topic.

 

Sure, there are undercurrents of larger topics and potential sarcasm.. but it's not so easy to write in a fashion that is left to the readers interpretation. AND come up with a epic t-shirt.

I'm going to add "Boomer" to this list, please, note that term has nothing to do with the ASF.

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

That tells me your a very combative person.

Yeah, sure. I sure as hell aren't scared to speak my mind, if that's what you mean.

I do find it a bit hypocritical of you to say that, since I have seen you fight against players who are trying to change the meta of the game. Back then, I was defending the meta of the game as well...so honestly, I don't see how yours is justified and mine is simply being combative. I guess you felt like being combative by making that statement and you just wanted to cast the first stone...congrats I guess.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Solarverse

[Rahabina]

On 11/23/2021 at 1:12 PM, PeregrineFalcon said:

No, worse than that.

 

After they get PL'd to 50, after they get the perfect Alpha-God build from the forums, then they play a little while and then come to the forums and post "This game is too easy, brah! Nerf players! Nerf softcap! Nerf IOs. Nerf whateverelseIthinkistheproblem!"

Or someone beg for PL so they can work on unlocking their incarnate slots while they doorsit and file their nails

Edited December 2, 2021 by Rahabina

[battlewraith]

Power leveling is probably keeping the game alive. The majority of the playerbase has played the game for years (or are maybe related somehow to such players--kids, etc.). They don't have the time or the interest in playing the traditional way. PLing allows people to fast forward to the content they enjoy, experiment with builds, get the resources they need in a reasonable amount of time, etc, Take away the farming and it would wither away.

 

IMO challenge has never been a strong point for coh even before the development turned away from teamwork and started catering to soloists. That doesn't mean things weren't/aren't challenging to do. It's just that the difficult things all boil down to a formula that needs to be followed. Once the conditions are met that more or less static challenge becomes routine. The difficulty is getting the proper pieces in place from the get go.

 

The strength of the game is in creativity and immersion. It allows you to really make you own character in a way that most games don't. It allows you to make stories and have an experience of the world that other games in my experience don't. The fact that it's a really easy game supports this. 

[Rahabina]

6 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

The strength of the game is in creativity and immersion. It allows you to really make you own character in a way that most games don't. It allows you to make stories and have an experience of the world that other games in my experience don't. The fact that it's a really easy game supports this. 

I agree with this somewhat, I have never found much RP immersion but character wise, each one that I really like I have a story for. Mostly I powerlevel my own toons as I have done all the content, then usually I like to exempt down and help low level teams rather than powerlevel people.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Rahabina

[Aeroprism]

Lots of solid (and emotional) arguments here. 

 

The game changed, changes and will change again.

 

Ask yourself: Does a specific change REALLY prevent you from playing the way you like? You like the long way to 50? It's still there! What sort of obstacle do legions of 50 PLed players place in the way of that? None.  Heck, legions of 50s made the market sink to ridiculously accessible levels, allowing people like me to drown in Inf and people not like me to afford excellent builds without having to grind for weeks.

 

Embrace the new but don't sacrifice what you love.  I appreaciate the best of both worlds. I take the team/solo route to 50 but I'm not afraid to use the 2X exp from the P2W to get through some level ranges I have played a hundred times already. And If I don't want it, I just don't take it.

 

I am seriously not convinced that any of the changes made on Homecoming breaks the game for those who want to play it like it used to.

[Neiska]

To play armchair philosopher a moment,

 

Different people will enjoy different things, and have different goals.

 

For some, its risk vs reward - completing a long arduous journey to reap the rewards. For them, the challenge itself and overcoming it, could be the reward.

For others, its simple enjoyment - enjoying the game for what it is. This has many contexts and variations, far too many to list and attempt to categorize, which in itself I think would be a disservice.

 

For another group - it could be unusual activities, such as base building, or playing the auction house, or whiling away the hours roleplaying and making friends.

 

So, in essence, people are comparing ways they enjoy the game, as well as their goals in it. Which I would say is normal and even to be expected.

 

That said however, one thing I will not agree with or support is the mentality or opinion that everyone must play a certain way, or enjoy a certain activity. I do hasten do add that no one here has said such directly in words, but it could be insinuated. I believe it is wrong to try and limit another players form of enjoyment of the game, in favor for another. Or to try and change or remove their goals. For that surely will end the game more than any other paradigm. 

 

If others enjoy the game in a certain manner - be it power leveling, farming, enjoying the iron man challenge, hanging out roleplaying, or building a financial empire, I say more power to them. So long as such things do not directly infringe upon another's enjoyment. 

 

So what if some like racing to level 50 as fast as they can, to begin testing their builds? So what if some like enjoying farming or funding several builds? So what if some enjoy the hardest challenge possible? How does any of "their" actions, affect "your" own gameplay and goals within the game? I would argue, that it would not. At least not directly. And if it does affect you in some manner, then perhaps its not your own form of enjoyment that you seek, but instead to control, police, or remove other forms of enjoyment that which you do not enjoy yourself. 

 

You don't enjoy power leveling? No one is forcing you to.

You don't enjoy farming? Again, no one is twisting your arm.

You don't enjoy a certain difficulty? No one is holding you at gunpoint, nor is there any trophy or cash prize to be won.

You don't enjoy a certain way a team is formed, or its members? You are certainly free to leave, and start your own team, and host it in the manner you desire. I cannot guarantee people will join it, however.

 

And none of this is meant as an insult or attack on anyone here. I only hope to perhaps remind people that this really is just a game, and one that I personally feel we are lucky to be able to enjoy. As well as to highlight that, perhaps, people are missing the forest, from seeing all the trees. 

 

Our community is small enough. And I feel that attitudes such as I described will do more to drive people away, than many actions we have seen suggested, insinuated, or mentioned both here and elsewhere. 

 

"More options" are good, for everyone. Remove those options, and people are inclined to go where they will find such options, in this game or another. Rare is it, that a player who preferred one aspect of a game, lingers around if such aspects or options are removed. More likely, they tend to look elsewhere, particularly with the number of other games widely available now.

 

Just some food for thought. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

 

Best wishes

[cotesan]

It’s great that we can play how we each like, however unlockable items are a great incentive for people to team, play etc. again you can choose to pl or not. It’s win win.

 

I do miss the old days of this game, pre p2w.. cape missions and respecs etc they had people playing and earning items. It made it fun and rewarding. 
 

you like door sitting? Wonderful. 
you want to get addons and bonus content, great. All choice. 

[Troo]

I don't think folks, in general, should feel the need to be defensive over how they play.

 

My main is level locked at 32 (same as on live). This makes some folks glitch. "why not at least 33?!" "bonuses exempt down" "why?!!!"

 

(That character is also infamy capped and pownz longbow in Siren's)
 

Play how you want.

..and take the bit of grief you deserve when you ask stupid shit

like 'How 2 get 2 Hami?' on an decked 50 T4.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Troo

[Troo]

 

2 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

Embrace the new but don't sacrifice what you love.  I appreaciate the best of both worlds. I take the team/solo route to 50 but I'm not afraid to use the 2X exp from the P2W to get through some level ranges I have played a hundred times already. And If I don't want it, I just don't take it.

I can dig this ^.

 

2 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

What sort of obstacle do legions of 50 PLed players place in the way of that? None.  Heck, legions of 50s made the market sink to ridiculously accessible levels, allowing people like me to drown in Inf and people not like me to afford excellent builds without having to grind for weeks.

w e l l , none  i s  fairly absolute.

and 

market prices may have more to do with consolidation and converting, not to mention seeding. (just my guess)

 

Alts are great for the game and I'd would not want to discourage that aspect, so I get folks power leveling and using 2xp. 

 

Spoiler

The following may be minor (and should ready go in other topics):

• I do think pick-up-groups are affected to some extent. BUT those are pickup groups.
• Door sitting surely adds little to the game.
• Being a PL'd 50 with relatively little infamy (this may just breed more farming).
• New players/accounts following 'just make a fire farmer' advice has some impact.
• Take a team of sub 75 badge folks into some of the new content. Could have an impact.

There are likely more but that's not why I'm here discussing the new stuff we got.

 

my point with this thread is we collectively ask, and look what we get just for showing up. Agree/Disagree.. it's pretty cool

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Troo