What Can Be Done to Recruit Players?

[Ghost]

6 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Funny my last comment got a thumbs down, just shows me how selfish and spoiled MMO players can actually be. You can thumb that down too.

I have you a thumbs down because you said that you quit playing because of a sound change.

Not sure how that equates to me being selfish and spoiled,  but whatever makes you feel better I guess.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Ghost

[Solarverse]

4 minutes ago, Ghost said:

I have you a thumbs down because you said that you quit playing because of a sound change.

Not sure how that equates to me being selfish and spoiled,  but whatever makes you feel better I guess.

 

Odd my personal reasons for not playing bothered you enough to thumb me down for it. But okay, I can live with that. My reasons are my reasons just like anyone else who quits playing for one reason or another. I guess my reason wasn't good enough in your book of acceptable reasons. Doesn't matter, my reply didn't fit this particular thread anyway, so that was on me.

[Troo]

11 hours ago, Solarverse said:

My odd personal reasons for not playing

 

I fixed it for you. 🙂

[Solarverse]

55 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

I fixed it for you. 🙂

Hahaha! Hey man, it is what it is, lol.

[Glacier Peak]

How has nobody posted this yet?

 

 

We just need a slick recruitment video played in the markets of Buenos Aires and the Outer Colonies to get more folks interested! 

☠️🐞

Edited May 5, 2022 by Glacier Peak

[KaizenSoze]

I am sure this has been said many times in the 13 pages of replies.

 

We just need to advertise the existence of the game.

 

Due to this thread, I posted on reddit.com/r/gaming. It didn't get a lot of upvotes, but it did get 6K+ views.

 

This is a good month to advertise, since it's the third anniversary of Homecoming.

 

 

[Troo]

30 minutes ago, KaizenSoze said:

I posted on reddit.com/r/gaming.

 

54 "joined the community" in the last 24 hours

[nihilii]

I haven't logged in in 2022.

I agree with the posters pointing the finger at farming on steroids (causing a retention problem).

When you overoptimize, there is a point where atmosphere goes away, where rituals disappear. Gone is the sentiment of playing a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game rather than an arbitrary mesh of numbers and functions.

It's normal to defend your current high as a junkie. I know I do, my playstyle for 2021 was mostly to AFKfarm new builds from start to finish, then have fun with them for a couple dozen hours. But, even if it feels good in the moment, there are externalities that eventually can't be ignored.

 

(This is not a "oh I was a fool like you all but now I've realised my mistakes" post, when I log back in again I will play in the same way as before. It is *rational* in the current state of the game to farm, simply because oldschool grinding on your own is not going to change the overall playerbase behavior. The problems are systemic and need systemic changes.)

I still think the weekly TF was one of the best changes ever introduced to this game. Driving focused activity, bringing players together. Extending that behavior to more areas of the game could do so much. i.e., an automatically rebalancing system that would increase rewards for lesser fought factions or the arcs/TFs least done each week... could drive both diversity and community. A game that is mostly figured out like CoH needs dynamic elements to stave off just running the optimal path, IMHO.

[Apparition]

16 minutes ago, nihilii said:

I haven't logged in in 2022.

I agree with the posters pointing the finger at farming on steroids (causing a retention problem).

When you overoptimize, there is a point where atmosphere goes away, where rituals disappear. Gone is the sentiment of playing a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game rather than an arbitrary mesh of numbers and functions.

 

 

Yep.  When Homecoming first went online, so many people insisted that they want all of their characters back NOW NOW NOW that they farmed and PLed dozens of characters to level 50, set them out, Incarnated them between veteran levels and iTrials... and then what?  After all that grind, there was nothing left to do.  So they left.  It happened with literally dozens of people that I personally know.

[Snarky]

50 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

 

Yep.  When Homecoming first went online, so many people insisted that they want all of their characters back NOW NOW NOW that they farmed and PLed dozens of characters to level 50, set them out, Incarnated them between veteran levels and iTrials... and then what?  After all that grind, there was nothing left to do.  So they left.  It happened with literally dozens of people that I personally know.

people do what they want. what they need.  something was taken. they got it back. they may have been done with the game BEFORE closure. but the knowledge that what was theirs was taken will spur many to use their unique set of talents to get something back.

 

anyone can play, we welcome people who play for nostalgia, to prove a point, to claw back what was stolen.  

 

what we need is people who WANT to PLAY, for whatever reason.  players who want to run content, badge, socialize.  farmers farm.  has zero impact on my life.  because they would never play with me.  they are flying a plane, i am walking around cap au diable

[Apparition]

I've said all of this (although I don't think together in one post), over the past couple of years, but it still remains true (although people will vehemently disagree):

 

1. AE XP should have been cut to 25%.

 

2. XP from radio and newspaper missions should have been cut to 50%.

 

3. The only thing veteran levels should have given you is badges.

 

4. The double XP booster should have cost 5 - 10 million INF per, and the 50% XP booster should have cost 2.5 - 5 million INF per.

[Snarky]

i disagree

[Ghost]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

I've said all of this (although I don't think together in one post), over the past couple of years, but it still remains true (although people will vehemently disagree):

 

1. AE XP should have been cut to 25%.

 

2. XP from radio and newspaper missions should have been cut to 50%.

 

3. The only thing veteran levels should have given you is badges.

 

4. The double XP booster should have cost 5 - 10 million INF per, and the 50% XP booster should have cost 2.5 - 5 million INF per.

Why?

I am curious.

[ShardWarrior]

3 hours ago, Apparition said:

Yep.  When Homecoming first went online, so many people insisted that they want all of their characters back NOW NOW NOW that they farmed and PLed dozens of characters to level 50, set them out, Incarnated them between veteran levels and iTrials... and then what?  After all that grind, there was nothing left to do.  So they left.  It happened with literally dozens of people that I personally know.

 

While I do not doubt your personal experience, it is definitely not universally true of everyone nor would I say it is even representative for a majority of people.  I personally belong to several chat channels filled with players who farm alts exactly as you are describing and are still actively playing every day.  They have been here since Homecoming opened up and most if not all would not be here if they could not farm alts as they can.

 

None of us have any real idea why others outside our social circles come and go.  Ascribing blame to activities we may not like is very easy.  Anyone here can just as easily point the finger at the utterly toxic disdain some here have toward ostracizing people who might enjoy farming.  Those trying to impose their attitudes and opinions of "how to play right" like @Krimson mentions above can be another reason people were driven away.  Many may have left simply because this is an old game and does not have many of the modern QoL features newer games have.  Several people I know have left because they are older and at a different point in their lives and do not have the time to devote to the game anymore. 

 

Bottom line is no one knows for sure.  Trying to paint AE, farmers and farming as the sole reasons is very short sighted in my opinion, not to mention referring to the people who enjoy it as "addicts".  Those kinds of toxic behavior and attitudes are doing more damage than AE ever will in my opinion.

 

 

[Excraft]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

I've said all of this (although I don't think together in one post), over the past couple of years, but it still remains true (although people will vehemently disagree):

 

1. AE XP should have been cut to 25%.

 

2. XP from radio and newspaper missions should have been cut to 50%.

 

3. The only thing veteran levels should have given you is badges.

 

4. The double XP booster should have cost 5 - 10 million INF per, and the 50% XP booster should have cost 2.5 - 5 million INF per.

 

Ok so tell us, what are the nerfs to story content or whatever other activities you enjoy to balance this out.  Can story arc XP be made non-repeatable ever and have it's XP cut by 50%?

 

Making XP boosters have a high price tag is an open door invitation for gold farmers to start creeping in and that's something the team here have said they don't want to see happen. 

 

People have different preferences.  Options are a good thing.  Some people ask for farms because that's the activity they're interested in.  Others want to take the slow road.  Both can exist here and have all the fun they want.  There's something here for everyone. 

 

If everyone left Homecoming because of farming, where did they go?  There's no P2W vendors on Rebirth for quick farming up alts and that server doesn't have a big population either, so there goes the "everyone likes the slow road" nonsense. 

[cranebump]

3 hours ago, Apparition said:

I've said all of this (although I don't think together in one post), over the past couple of years, but it still remains true (although people will vehemently disagree):

 

2. XP from radio and newspaper missions should have been cut to 50%.

 

One reason I used to run those radios back in the day was for the rewards. You could get jump pack and/or jet pack in KR. Then you had the other stuff you could get in other zones (not to mention the temp powers some of the sides gave you. If anything, I'd like to see radios expanded in some way. With P2W, these are just skipped (though my first 50 upon return managed to do them all, and now has the ability to repeat them at the contact in Steel). I'm not sure what can be added to make them more attractive, unless maybe it's significant progress toward Day Job badges (I mean, if you're protecting a bank, you're literally helping law enforcement, so...how about immediately granting the Day Job for X/time in game. Also: how about some sort of power/buff that comes with the Stouthearted badge (and vill equivalent)? Might grant incentives to protect AP. 

 

Beyond that, radios ARE in game missions. Not sure that cutting them does anything except railroad everyone straight into nothing but 100% story arcs. Not sure this would be a good thing, overall.

[Coyotedancer]

4 hours ago, Apparition said:

I3. The only thing veteran levels should have given you is badges.

 

Nope. 

 

Having to grind iTrials was never fun. Adding emp merits as a vet level reward was one of the *best* things that was done..., right along with gaining iXP in regular play post-50 and getting rid of the reward time-gates in DA.

 

Not having to run BAF-after-BAF-after-Lambda-after-TPN-after-endless-rounds-of-the-first-bit-of-Magi is a relief, frankly. I know I'm far from the only one who really doesn't miss the annoying, boring, repetitive pain in the ass that incarnating a character was back in the Live days.

[macskull]

7 hours ago, Apparition said:

I've said all of this (although I don't think together in one post), over the past couple of years, but it still remains true (although people will vehemently disagree):

 

1. AE XP should have been cut to 25%.

 

2. XP from radio and newspaper missions should have been cut to 50%.

 

3. The only thing veteran levels should have given you is badges.

 

4. The double XP booster should have cost 5 - 10 million INF per, and the 50% XP booster should have cost 2.5 - 5 million INF per.

• Points 1 and 2? Nah. Don't strongarm me into playing how you want me to play. The only reason AE XP got reduced to 50% was to take off some of the mapserver load when the game first came back - it was supposed to be a temporary change which ended up being permanent, but other servers running the same codebase as Homecoming still have normal XP in AE. (Those other servers also still have the winter super packs for 10m inf instead of 25m inf, which tells me those sorts of changes are targeted toward curbing certain behavior on HC and the powers that be are now okay with where things are at.)
• Point 3? Don't particularly care. Veteran levels were added while the game had a substantially smaller population which made running iTrials (and therefore getting incarnate stuff unlocked) near-impossible. Hell, you used to get Empyrean merits for every veteran level which got scaled back to its current implementation. Not having to grind out iTrials to unlock incarnate stuff is A Good Thing since it lets players play how they want.
• Point 4? If you'll recall, XP boosters used to work exactly as you're describing (except cost scaled by level) but were changed to their current implementation about three weeks after Homecoming was spun up. Even at 10 million inf per booster the cost was trivial - just give your lowbie some inf and the drops you get during that hour will easily make up for what you spent.

 

EDIT: We can come up with all the things we want about ingame issues making players leave, but we are forumites/discordites and represent a small portion of the population. Realistically it's the slow pace of content updates which causes player attrition - and given the dev team is all-volunteer with other things going on in their lives, that isn't going to change. The updates we get are good, obviously, but they don't come often enough to keep players' attention. If the goal is to recruit and bring in new players, there needs to be out-of-game publicity, which the HC team is not doing for reasons known only to them.

Edited May 9, 2022 by macskull

[Luminara]

8 hours ago, Apparition said:

I've said all of this (although I don't think together in one post), over the past couple of years, but it still remains true (although people will vehemently disagree):

 

1. AE XP should have been cut to 25%.

 

2. XP from radio and newspaper missions should have been cut to 50%.

 

3. The only thing veteran levels should have given you is badges.

 

4. The double XP booster should have cost 5 - 10 million INF per, and the 50% XP booster should have cost 2.5 - 5 million INF per.

 

Why not just punch new players in the dick a few times?

[Oklahoman]

17 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Why not just punch new players in the dick a few times?

 

Is this a proposal for a new version of Outbreak/Breakout?

[Ironblade]

9 hours ago, Apparition said:

Yep.  When Homecoming first went online, so many people insisted that they want all of their characters back NOW NOW NOW that they farmed and PLed dozens of characters to level 50, set them out, Incarnated them between veteran levels and iTrials... and then what?  After all that grind, there was nothing left to do.  So they left.  It happened with literally dozens of people that I personally know.

Sounds like they remembered the game through rose-colored glasses.  They wanted their old characters back, got them and then, "eh, who cares".  The game wasn't like they remembered/wanted or it WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A GRIND.  They played in a way that led to burn-out or boredom or simply lack of enjoyment.

 

I've recreated about 18 characters from live and made 5 new ones.  About 15 of them are level 50 and fully incarnate, with exactly ZERO farming/PL'ing, and I don't feel like it has been a grind at all.

[Ironblade]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

Why not just punch new players in the dick a few times?

 

Why not?  If it's good enough for the animals, it should be good enough for new players.

 

[Troo]

9 hours ago, Apparition said:

I've said all of this (although I don't think together in one post), over the past couple of years, but it still remains true (although people will vehemently disagree):

 

1. AE XP should have been cut to 25%.

 

2. XP from radio and newspaper missions should have been cut to 50%.

 

3. The only thing veteran levels should have given you is badges.

 

4. The double XP booster should have cost 5 - 10 million INF per, and the 50% XP booster should have cost 2.5 - 5 million INF per.

 

There is some truth above, as well as in many of the responses to it. The game is ridiculously easy now. That is good and bad.

 

Remember when we had to complete a trial to respec? When was the last time folks ran Tree of Thorns Respecification Trial without a weekly prompt? I've done it once since coming back.

 

@nihilii has something with "I still think the weekly TF was one of the best changes ever introduced to this game. Driving focused activity, bringing players together. Extending that behavior to more areas of the game could do so much." +100

@Excraft yes, "People have different preferences.  Options are a good thing."

@ShardWarrior yes, "Trying to paint AE, farmers and farming as the sole reasons", I agree. It's not as simple as one thing.

 

I think the point is:

For a new person, everything in the game is new content. Skipping all or much of that content in a race to an endgame which doesn't exist could be a disservice.

 

Absolutely folks should be able to play how they want. This is not the same as the game disproportionately rewarding play that over capitalizes on specific game mechanics.

 

We're all familiar with the challenges of finding balance.

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Troo
lashes for Troo discouraged..

[Glacier Peak]

Well since this thread has gone on now for a good couple of pages, any chance we can get a HC Team rep to chime in on their views?

 

@Jimmy @Cipher @Number Six @Telephone @Flowers @Buckets?

[ShardWarrior]

18 hours ago, Troo said:

For a new person, everything in the game is new content. Skipping all or much of that content in a race to an endgame which doesn't exist could be a disservice.

 

That is very true.  With that said, "could be" are the keys words here.  Trying to lay blame squarely on farming as the sole reason the game has a low population or is not attracting new players is problematically subjective. 

 

Again, people are different.  New players may be interested in PvP and have no interest in grinding repetitive story content ad nauseam or they may want to experience the content with fully decked out characters.  Or they may want to experience every bit of story content they can get their hands on and level up that way.  As others have already pointed out, there is something for everyone here to enjoy. 

 

18 hours ago, Troo said:

Remember when we had to complete a trial to respec? When was the last time folks ran Tree of Thorns Respecification Trial without a weekly prompt? I've done it once since coming back.

 

What specifically is preventing you from forming a team and running it?  I have seen people advertising respec trials outside of them being the WST.  Granted, they are rare to see in LFG, however people are running them.  People run them for the badges and they can be a nice diversion from the usual TFs being run.

 

18 hours ago, Troo said:

This is not the same as the game disproportionately rewarding play that over capitalizes on specific game mechanics.

 

The very same thing can be said about DFB, DiB, SBB or any other content that can be sped through for high rewards with little to no risk involved. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by ShardWarrior