Devs, please explain why you are nerfing one of the most popular activities on Homecoming

[Sneakers]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:00 PM, MHertz said:

You misunderstand. I couldn’t care less that farms exist and I don’t think anyone else needs to get in a twist about it either. People will always seek to maximize advantage; devs will always fix bugs. That’s how it goes.

 

Nope, I understand. Your post was elaborate and even has metaphors to further elaborate. 

You made a statement about food and animals and what happens when you take the food from certain animals.

I asked you a question regarding your post. And you completely dodged it.

If you don't care about it then move on. 

 

Why does the exp buff have to be a bug? 

Ever consider that the people who designed AE intended for it to be end game content?

That they may of added the incentive on purpose?

 

This is a topic for a reason.

Obviously you have a opinion on it otherwise you wouldn't of posted that neat little comparison to animals and food.

Don't you realize how spot on you are with what you posted?

 

"You see this in nature. When there is a source of food, something comes along to consume it. The population which prefers that excess of food now booms. Then the food source goes away and that population falls away, or moves somewhere else, leaving ripples in the other populations as it goes."

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Sneakers

[Glacier Peak]

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, Sneakers said:

Why does the exp buff have to be a bug? 

Ever consider that the people who designed AE intended for it to be end game content?

That they may have added the incentive on purpose?

 

AE content, as designed, didn't give experience, influence, enhancements, salvage or recipes.  So no, the designers didn't set the XP equation to use a multiplier instead of making it additive intentionally as an additional reward for participating in AE content, because they didn't intend to allow XP in AE.  It was a mistake.  A bug.

[Sneakers]

1 minute ago, Luminara said:

 

AE content, as designed, didn't give experience, influence, enhancements, salvage or recipes.  So no, the designers didn't set the XP equation to use a multiplier instead of making it additive intentionally as an additional reward for participating in AE content, because they didn't intend to allow XP in AE.  It was a mistake.  A bug.

 

When was exp added into AE?

How do you know for sure what you're saying that it was a mistake is true?

Can you offer any further explanation?

[Ruin Mage]

The intention of the AE was for it to be used to create missions and ideally 5-mission story arcs. It's called the Mission Architect. This is proven by the fact that Paragon Studios did try to take a bat to farming during Live. However, the farming ability stayed in AE for reasons. Be it that the farming population on live lost their shit (which was likely larger/more vocal on live versus here), or the blanket removing EXP also sort-of hurt mission makers.

It's a bug because it was THREE times the exp rather than two. That was the bug. Instead of double (as per the name of the buff setting thing) it was giving triple. That's not some feature, but something no one took notice of until last minute.

Its original intent was that you earned tickets. You spent those tickets to get things.

[MistressOhm]

As I understand, Experience and mission drop rewards in AE is primarily a Homecoming thing, NOT a Live thing.  

 

I remember when Architect released.  Everyone flocked to this cool new system to post up player missions and content, and ... several PL farms nearly broke the system.  Atlas Park was instanced into three zones, sometimes four on weekends.  Matt Miller/Positron nearly ripped the AE system out of the game root and branch, he was so pissed.  The compromise was struck, that AE content would only grant tickets, NOT influence or XP.  It may (!) have been relaxed later, but yeah, that first month? Things were pretty effing crazy.  

[Ruin Mage]

Just now, MistressOhm said:

As I understand, Experience and mission drop rewards in AE is primarily a Homecoming thing, NOT a Live thing.  

Not quite. Live had exp because of the backlash - unfortunate or fortunate depending on your views.

The rewards thing I'm not sure about but AE Babies is very much a Live term to refer to those whose entire 1-50 journey is AE-based upon joining the game. As in its a character who lived and breathed the AE. usually also came with people who didn't quite know how to build a character, but not always. The anti-farm vs pro-farm mentalities were way way worse on Live now that I think about it.

[Sneakers]

8 minutes ago, Shadeknight said:

The intention of the AE was for it to be used to create missions and ideally 5-mission story arcs. It's called the Mission Architect. This is proven by the fact that Paragon Studios did try to take a bat to farming during Live. However, the farming ability stayed in AE for reasons. Be it that the farming population on live lost their shit (which was likely larger/more vocal on live versus here), or the blanket removing EXP also sort-of hurt mission makers.

It's a bug because it was THREE times the exp rather than two. That was the bug. Instead of double (as per the name of the buff setting thing) it was giving triple. That's not some feature, but something no one took notice of until last minute.

Its original intent was that you earned tickets. You spent those tickets to get things.

 

Thats how I remember it. Live was already clinging along when they finally released AE. Fire farming was a thing in the latter days of Live wasn't it? Thats what I remember.

[Ruin Mage]

Farming was a thing since Issue 1. Dumpster Diving in the werewolf ruined city map (Think Unai) or the demon map of Harvey Maylor.

AE just centralized it all to Atlas Park (for the most part) for the longest time. Until my bomb went off after 10 long years and destroyed the Atlas AE building.

(that is a joke)

Edited October 28, 2022 by Shadeknight

[MistressOhm]

Just now, Shadeknight said:

AE Babies

 

ah yes, I remember that.  Level 50's not knowing what the tram was for, or how to access contacts. 

 

I thought about specifically PL'ing a character whose origin WAS the AE system, as an "NPC" that had somehow had their data shunted to the resuscitation chambers instead of the garbage file when defeated.  Kind of a TRON/Automan concept, a constructed entity that was originally only virtual.  The PL was supposed to be a character-defining flaw, in that this entity came out of the system at a very high level, but was completely clueless about how things worked in realspace.  It made more sense at the time to simply block out all the abilities she 'had' but had yet to grasp the ethical implications of using them... so I ended up leveling her normally.  

[Grouchybeast]

13 hours ago, MistressOhm said:

I remember when Architect released.  Everyone flocked to this cool new system to post up player missions and content, and ... several PL farms nearly broke the system.  Atlas Park was instanced into three zones, sometimes four on weekends.  Matt Miller/Positron nearly ripped the AE system out of the game root and branch, he was so pissed.  The compromise was struck, that AE content would only grant tickets, NOT influence or XP.  It may (!) have been relaxed later, but yeah, that first month? Things were pretty effing crazy.  

 

Live AE always dropped XP, inf and tickets.  This was the main reason that it broke the economy so badly, because it hugely skewed the drop rates away from recipes and towards inf.  Every so often a new exploit would pop up and things would go crazy again until it was plugged, but the devs never managed to get round that fundamental misbalance problem.

 

On HC, even with 80% of the inf flow into the game apparently coming from one AE map (!!!), the economy is doing okay because inf and recipe drop are staying in balance.

[Tachstar]

14 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

Farming was a thing since Issue 1. Dumpster Diving in the werewolf ruined city map (Think Unai) or the demon map of Harvey Maylor.

 

I remember something about 'untimed' Dreck...

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

Live AE always dropped XP, inf and tickets.  This was the main reason that it broke the economy so badly, because it hugely skewed the drop rates away from recipes and towards inf. 

This was one of the things contributing to my view -- an unpopular one, to be sure -- that AE should not award inf. Inf, by game lore, was supposed to represent your public reputation accumulated from your actions -- how wiling other people were to supply you with goods/services, either out of respect for your accomplishments (blueside influence), fear of what you might do to them (redside infamy), or what you held over them (goldside information). And crawling into your electronic navel, no matter how well you learned to use your abilities doing it, doesn't do squat for your public reputation. You go into the AE building at level 1 and come out at level 50, and no one is going to know you from Adam's off ox -- "I've never heard of you; why should I do anything for you?" And people will object that inf is "just a currency", and that removing inf rewards from AE is nerfing AE (and, I concede, if you're farming AE missions for the direct inf rewards, yes it is), but I still hold the position that getting inf directly from AE missions (as opposed to converting tickets and selling what you buy with them) is contrary to the game lore of what inf represents.

[Oubliette_Red]

On 10/24/2022 at 8:00 PM, Doc_Scorpion said:

*sigh*  Older players were in the game back then.  And we're still here.

Demanding the "easy way" has nothing to do with age.

On 10/24/2022 at 8:54 PM, battlewraith said:

 

You're the spokesperson for older players?

 

Well, you're still here.

 

[Greycat]

13 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

This was one of the things contributing to my view -- an unpopular one, to be sure -- that AE should not award inf. Inf, by game lore, was supposed to represent your public reputation accumulated from your actions -- how wiling other people were to supply you with goods/services, either out of respect for your accomplishments (blueside influence), fear of what you might do to them (redside infamy), or what you held over them (goldside information). And crawling into your electronic navel, no matter how well you learned to use your abilities doing it, doesn't do squat for your public reputation. You go into the AE building at level 1 and come out at level 50, and no one is going to know you from Adam's off ox -- "I've never heard of you; why should I do anything for you?" And people will object that inf is "just a currency", and that removing inf rewards from AE is nerfing AE (and, I concede, if you're farming AE missions for the direct inf rewards, yes it is), but I still hold the position that getting inf directly from AE missions (as opposed to converting tickets and selling what you buy with them) is contrary to the game lore of what inf represents.

 

That hasn't really held true since ... well, long before AE. I don't think it even represented it when I started it in i3, but when they merged the markets and introduced side switching with GR, any lingering idea that INF represented anything other than money went out the window, through the neighbor's window, out their back door and a good mile or two down the street.

[golstat2003]

43 minutes ago, Greycat said:

 

That hasn't really held true since ... well, long before AE. I don't think it even represented it when I started it in i3, but when they merged the markets and introduced side switching with GR, any lingering idea that INF represented anything other than money went out the window, through the neighbor's window, out their back door and a good mile or two down the street.

yep. The second Matt Miller be-grudgingly made the merge (he had no choice. Players were already talking about how they would just wait till they left Praetoria and just go blue to use the better market there or just trade actual enhancements between their segregated toons BEFORE Going Rogue even came out) the idea that “inf” was anything other than money was a pure joke. Hell when IOs came out and a FREAKING Market that used nothing but inf as a currency arrived well before GR, the idea that inf was anything but money was already a joke for pretty much 99% of the player base. The live prices reflected this.

[battlewraith]

2 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Well, you're still here.

Yeah and???

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Well, you're still here.

My friends would assure you that even though I'm still here, I'm definitely not all there.

[Oubliette_Red]

4 hours ago, battlewraith said:

Yeah and???

 

@Doc_Scorpion's post doesn't rise to "spokesperson" status because they didn't claim anything regarding all, most or many old gamers, only that they were present in Legacy (which is true) and are also here in Homecoming (also true). Claiming that there are posterior head-adornments in the forums, while true it also does not claim that you* speak for all posterior head-adornments.

 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Oubliette_Red
*That's the general 'you', not you specifically.

[Snarky]

6 hours ago, srmalloy said:

This was one of the things contributing to my view -- an unpopular one, to be sure -- that AE should not award inf. Inf, by game lore, was supposed to represent your public reputation accumulated from your actions -- how wiling other people were to supply you with goods/services, either out of respect for your accomplishments (blueside influence), fear of what you might do to them (redside infamy), or what you held over them (goldside information). And crawling into your electronic navel, no matter how well you learned to use your abilities doing it, doesn't do squat for your public reputation. You go into the AE building at level 1 and come out at level 50, and no one is going to know you from Adam's off ox -- "I've never heard of you; why should I do anything for you?" And people will object that inf is "just a currency", and that removing inf rewards from AE is nerfing AE (and, I concede, if you're farming AE missions for the direct inf rewards, yes it is), but I still hold the position that getting inf directly from AE missions (as opposed to converting tickets and selling what you buy with them) is contrary to the game lore of what inf represents.

Interesting point.  Seriously deep philosophically gamewise.

 

But it precludes any AH transactions due to it's premise.  You cannot trade the Wetware Enhancer you found on a dead Freak for ANY Inf that the populace has bestowed on Johnny Awesome, no matter how much Johnny Awesome wants to make the deal with you.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Snarky

[battlewraith]

3 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

@Doc_Scorpion's post doesn't rise to "spokesperson" status because they didn't claim anything regarding all, most or many old gamers, only that they were present in Legacy (which is true) and are also here in Homecoming (also true).

 

Somebody was wondering if they were getting bored with the game quicker as the result of getting older. He responded with this:

 

On 10/24/2022 at 8:54 PM, battlewraith said:

*sigh*  Older players were in the game back then.  And we're still here. Demanding the "easy way" has nothing to do with age.

 

It seems apparent to me that he's identifying himself as part of the group "older players" (whatever that means). And since he's apparently representative of these older players he feels comfortable just waving away somebody else's thoughts about aging and decreased tolerance for grind (which he mischaracterizes as wanting the "easy way"). That's bullshit. Different people have different shifting priorities as they age. It was a weird thing to say. And it's a weird thing for me to have to clarify and bicker about a question that he didn't bother to answer. 

[nightroarer]

On 10/28/2022 at 4:13 PM, MistressOhm said:

As I understand, Experience and mission drop rewards in AE is primarily a Homecoming thing, NOT a Live thing.   

 

I had several characters on Live that I was very slowly leveling up entirely via the AE, so XP was part of the AE on Live. I didn't do any farms, just story arcs. No insta-max levels for me. To me, the AE offered a change of pace and the opportunity to play a bunch of new content, which gave a much more varied leveling experience. While I only designed one active story arc of my own, I was working on a number of concepts, so the creative side was also a blast.

 

The AE was never an holographic simulator for my characters. From my perspective, the missions my characters took were every bit as "real" as any of the official story arcs.

 

Frankly, the only major issue I really had with the AE--on Live or Homecoming--was that I couldn't filter farms out of my searches.

[DougGraves]

While I find AE farming to be dumb, I don't find it any more dumb than playing at levels above above 32 when the game is trivially easy anyway.  Especially PI radio teams that only choose Council missions.

 

I don't see removing AE farming making the game any better.  The way to make the game better is to remove IOs and the alpha power things level 50's get.

 

But ultimately driving away a huge chunk of the players is just going to make the game go away faster.

 

I'd rather have half of a good game than none of a great game.

[Blood Speaker]

On 10/20/2022 at 5:56 PM, roleki said:

If I was the old me, all of you people would be looking at goatse right now.

 

But... you're the old you NOW. How could you be the old you before now, when you're older now that the old you you seem to be referring to?!

 

So confused, now. I'm currently the confused me.

[Tachstar]

I feel more like I do now than I did before.