Officially Unofficial Weekly Discussion #18: Being the Architect to your imagination (AE Discussion)

[SeraphimKensai]

Welcome back to another week of our revolving conversation. This week we dig into the AE and building custom missions and player created content.

 

For the purposes of this thread we'll focus on non-farm AE content, as I'll bring a separate farming thread up in the future.

 

Have you created any custom missions in the AE? If so do you prefer to build standalone singular missions or create essentially your own story driven taskforce? Do you create custom NPCs or enemies for your content? Does that add to your narrative or just a creative outlet for you? What other elements of the Mission Architect do you use when designing your missions? Are there RP elements to your story driven AE missions? How difficult is your AE missions? What drives you to design your own missions or stories in the AE? Feel free to plug some of your own content.

 

Thanks once again.

[kito]

I have not made many AE mish (maybe 4) and I think I'm just getting ok at it. Still lots I would like to do I don't think the game will let you. 

 

I prefer to do large tf like missions but mostly make a few 1-2 mish stand alone. I try to stay close to the lore I have used prime elway updated stuff and edited them here and there to fit w/e my crazy idea is. But have never made a 100% original enamy there almost always a faction adjacent or subfaction of something in coh.  I think my AE mish are on the easy side of thing. Mostly can be done solo faster with a friend. 

 

I also like to try out a AE a week when I can. With so many seemingly there, some I have found very fun.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by kito

[Greycat]

Heh...
... first thing I'll answer this whole thing with is this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120907080230/http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=263335

When MA was in beta still, I spent a bunch of time writing up the Mission Architect tutorial series. Think it's on the HCWiki, too. Nearly burned myself out on the system by the time it went live 😄 So.. yea, I've created a few.

I also co-ran a SG where either I or a co-leader typically had something up nearly every week (if it wasn't an otherwise-played-out scene or we decided to break things up with "training," an SG meeting or TF.) *That* will burn you out...

 

Onward:

 

Have you created any custom missions in the AE?

 

Yes. Many.

 

If so do you prefer to build standalone singular missions or create essentially your own story driven taskforce?

 

Depends what I'm going for. usually it's at least 3 missions. If it's a single mission, it's possibly from wanting *that* map for an RP scene, and it'll be empty with a glowie. It may not even get published.

Do you create custom NPCs or enemies for your content?

 

Almost always, and some of those have become actual characters I play. I have one or two that are just "hmm, what were these old enemies..." as well.

Does that add to your narrative or just a creative outlet for you?

 

 

.. yes. 🙂

What other elements of the Mission Architect do you use when designing your missions?

 

Everything, from map selection to what can be interacted with.

Are there RP elements to your story driven AE missions?

 

Some encourages reading, the people I tend to play with will RP through things anyway, and sometimes the end of (or even the middle of) the arc will have a "Go to this base and/or this portal" for some interactions.

How difficult are your AE missions?

 

Eh. Depends. Some are more "just play through and read the clues." Some - especially with the SG I'd mentioned previously, who could just roll through things - I'd try for the "yes, I *am* trying to murder you all" difficulty. (People for some reason do not like facing all time manipulation users... with all the slows.)

What drives you to design your own missions or stories in the AE?

 

Some things can be just RP'd, some things you want people to have to beat things up or *see* a character they're facing, sometimes it's (reasonably) reliable repeatability when people wont' see things at the same time, but I want them to have this touchpoint experience of having done XYZ.

OK, a couple arcs. I make no promise to anyone else thinking they're good.

Seriously legacy arcs. These are essentially as old as AE is. Maybe minor tweaks while on live, but otherwise ancient:

Hero Corpse - 25648

Tsoo Faced - 25649

Not *as* old, but something I'd started as an RP series -

Ax: Dominae et Librum - 49532
Fabulas ut Nuntiarem (Libris arc 2) - 52390

(I don't recall if I finished the series, I'm pretty sure I had at least two others I haven't republished.)

 

 

"For the heck of it" arcs - tossing old enemy groups into an arc with absolutely no story to remember what they *were* exactly:
Mystery Groups - 54425
Time Vikings! - 54426 (Because vikings deserve to be on a ship, plus time vikings!)

[DougGraves]

I have created a couple of AE arcs.  They are level 1-10 with enemies you don't normally face blueside.  My idea was to create new content for starting a character on blueside.

 

They are not particularly hard - no AVs or anything.  Each has its own story, they are not tied together.

 

Snakes from the Isles (#41022) - Stop the Snake invasion of the city

 

Infection from the Isles (40915) - Stop the Infected from being used to invade the city.

[Seed22]

On 2/28/2023 at 5:02 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

Welcome back to another week of our revolving conversation. This week we dig into the AE and building custom missions and player created content.

 

For the purposes of this thread we'll focus on non-farm AE content, as I'll bring a separate farming thread up in the future.

 

Have you created any custom missions in the AE? If so do you prefer to build standalone singular missions or create essentially your own story driven taskforce? Do you create custom NPCs or enemies for your content? Does that add to your narrative or just a creative outlet for you? What other elements of the Mission Architect do you use when designing your missions? Are there RP elements to your story driven AE missions? How difficult is your AE missions? What drives you to design your own missions or stories in the AE? Feel free to plug some of your own content.

 

Thanks once again.

I love AE, for both farming purposes(never built my own though) or to create narratives* and standalone mishs

 

I'm not too sure what RP elements would entail, but in the past my arcs have been RPish in sofar as I've created an origin series for one of my older toons(on my older PC that died xD). As far as custom enemies? It really depends on the arc and character. I've created whole custom groups that got deleted as I lost interest in the toon's origin story or potential narrative, and I've also imported my own toons to serve in custom groups(Paragon Heroes and Rogue Isle Villains respectively.)

 

Difficulty in my mishs can vary. Sometimes they're ridiculous, other times, almost a walk in the park. I'm working to create a middle ground, but that comes with time(to understand how powers differ in AE.)

 

As far as dealing in the lore of CoH? Depends. I find most of the lore to be INSANELY boring, so what I do is do...lore-ish arcs. I try to make sure I don't muck up major things(like claiming to kill LR or something equally bombastic) but I could care less when or if the Luddites are gone as I may need them for something, or if X group had Y that didn't play a major role in the CoH meta narrative.

 

*I'm currently working on a narrative surrounding more 'slice of life' or whimsical shenanigans in Paragon/The Isles. We get enough 'save the world from X or Y' but where are the 'Stop Ms. Ester from being eaten by radioactive fungi' or 'Go get coffee from Aeon Cafe'(which sounds bland but this is the Isles, so...)

Edited March 1, 2023 by Seed22

[cranebump]

Have you created any custom missions in the AE?

See my sig.

 

If so do you prefer to build standalone singular missions or create essentially your own story driven taskforce?

Both (again, see sig). I interpret taskforces as stories written explicitly for teams. I did a couple of those for an SG I had joined, but the SG didn't go anywhere. I needed the mission slots, so I pulled the arcs. But to actually answer the question, I like both standalone and multi-arc narratives. Standalones have a slight edge, I guess, because I like finishing.

 

Do you create custom NPCs or enemies for your content?

All the time. I assume players want not just new content, but new foes (and allies), as well. 

 

Does that add to your narrative or just a creative outlet for you?

Both. My arcs exist in the "lore cracks" - meaning they tend to be tied to something in the game, but take the game world in different directions (to include introducing new factions and sub-factions). It's a creative outlet for me, since I can explore the various elements of storytelling within the Architect. I liken it to guerilla filmmaking, where you don't have all the tools and bells and whistles, but you're still trying to make something with quality as good as (or better) than those who do. This means your story has to be interesting, which means you need interesting characters, which means either creating new ones (ex: The Autumn Wards in my Mobius Arc)., or putting a new spin on old ones (Hollow Point in the Leviathan series). There is certainly something to be said for revisiting established characters (especially underdeveloped ones, as @Darmian does with Praetorian content). But one must do one's thing (and this one tends towards "partial cloth" creation, because, frankly, it's more work [for me] to hew to what's there than it is to create new fiction).

 

What other elements of the Mission Architect do you use when designing your missions?

I don't use anything but what the Architect gives me. One must not quibble with God.:-)

 

Are there RP elements to your story driven AE missions?

If you mean NPCs reacting in character to the PC, then yes. However, since there's no real way to spontaneously interact with anyone, it's also a no. The best you can do is script with consistency and enough depth to get the players to feel for the characters. And then KILL THEM! (j/k)

 

How difficult is your AE missions?

Welllll....I can do them easily enough.:-) I would say some of the bosses are tough, albeit not unreasonable (thanks to changes after input from testers). My earlier ones, that use timers, can be pretty tough, due to the time constraints. I would say they're about average (which would mean at least 1 tough boss/arc).

 

 

What drives you to design your own missions or stories in the AE?

I like telling my own stories, and I **guess** I like writing (as with Oscar Wilde, it's the paperwork I can't stand).:-) After the first couple stories (which were about, "Hmmm...let's see what we can do here"), it became trying to actually do something with some actual quality, both in form and narrative.  That is still - and always - my goal.

Edited February 28, 2023 by cranebump

[Spaghetti Betty]

I'm really happy with AE as we have it now. On Live, it was a miserable experience (IMO) trying to make anything really custom. You put a custom mob in your mission? There goes 80% of your data usage for the whole arc. Blech.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Have you created any custom missions in the AE?

 

Yes! IDs are in my sig.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

If so do you prefer to build standalone singular missions or create essentially your own story driven taskforce?

 

I wouldn't say they are "story driven" (they all have Nintendo Plots), but they are all Task Force length.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Do you create custom NPCs or enemies for your content? Does that add to your narrative or just a creative outlet for you?

 

Yes, 100%. It's just like creating alts, so of course I have to.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What other elements of the Mission Architect do you use when designing your missions?

 

I tried to dabble with a little bit of everything the system offers when creating. Except file manipulation and custom powers. That's a little over my head.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Are there RP elements to your story driven AE missions?

 

Sure!

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

How difficult is your AE missions?

 

They are pretty tough. I'd say the difficulty starts at "tough to solo" and goes up to "bring some friends". TBH, my difficulty benchmark for a while was "Can my SR/DM Tank breeze through this at +4x8?" And so as I scaled up the challenge in my arcs, it became specifically to punish that one toon. Let's just say I succeeded.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What drives you to design your own missions or stories in the AE?

 

I really just wanted to create interesting combat scenarios that would incline players to bring a friend or two and pay attention to what was being thrown at them.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Spaghetti Betty

[UltraAlt]

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Have you created any custom missions in the AE?

 

Yes.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

If so do you prefer to build standalone singular missions or create essentially your own story driven taskforce?

 

I build 4-5 mission story arc most of the time.

I believe all the ones that are currently "published" are 4-5 mission arcs.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Do you create custom NPCs or enemies for your content?

 

Yes.

Many of the arcs that I create are all custom NPCs and critters. I think all the ones that currently have published are all custom created NPCs and critters.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Does that add to your narrative or just a creative outlet for you?

 

I'm assuming that would be "creative outlet" as my arcs are non-canon.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What other elements of the Mission Architect do you use when designing your missions?

 

I'm not sure what this is asking, but I think all of them(?)

I write-up the critter info. I write up the clues. If there is a blank, I'm filling it in.

I utilise the text replacement and variables. Colorize text to make important words stand out for those glossing over the text.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Are there RP elements to your story driven AE missions?

 

Yes.

The NPCs tend to RP with the players. Some extra RP NPC flavor is thrown into some missions as an Easter Egg - that is to say, they aren't required to complete the mission, but they are in there if the player happens to stumble upon them.

Without mission forking options (either player picked or routed by success/defeat), there isn't much more RP available.

 

I built one mission arc that was specific to another players character and character that I intentionally made as a support character to that specific other player's character.

So I guess that means, the RP part to me would really mean that the content is made/tailored for a specific supergroup or characters to be involved with and really aren't RP if you aren't part of that "group" of characters/supergroup.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

How difficult is your AE missions?

 

I try to build mine so that the average player is challenged.

A well more difficult a lower level mission arc on +0/x0. A little less difficult than most tips +1/x?. 

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What drives you to design your own missions or stories in the AE?

 

Honestly, not much any more.

Farming pretty much destroyed the AE for me. It was to be for designing creative missions for each other to play. Farming missions take attention away from actual story content not just because people want to farm but because they fill up the AE with farming missions clouding it and obscuring actual creative missions.

I was really excited about it when it came out because it is very powerful game tool. It is very sad to me how farming ruined it pretty much as soon as it was released on live.

 

16 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Feel free to plug some of your own content.

 

I always keep my mask on.

The missions are in there. People shouldn't have to dig through farming missions to find them, nor should I have to advertise them in order to get people to play them.

 

 

 

[Clave Dark 5]

Have you created any custom missions in the AE? -- Several, and was able to port some over from Live even.  And I've made one new since HC showed up.

 

If so do you prefer to build standalone singular missions or create essentially your own story driven taskforce? --- More or less stand-alones.  Did have a few continuing characters though.

 

Do you create custom NPCs or enemies for your content? --- Sometimes yeah; sometimes all of them, sometimes none of them.

 

Does that add to your narrative or just a creative outlet for you? --- What, creating my NPCs?  depends on what the story calls for.

 

What other elements of the Mission Architect do you use when designing your missions? --- ... I don't understand the question.

 

Are there RP elements to your story driven AE missions? --- If I understand this question, no, just sharing stories, nothing about my "main" or whatever.

 

How difficult is your AE missions? -- Not, I'm not that sort of gamer.

 

What drives you to design your own missions or stories in the AE? --- Silly jokes, stories I wanna tell.

 

Feel free to plug some of your own content.  --- They're pretty stupid, go play 'em!  I have one that got into a Dev's Choice even!  Do they file in the system under our main player name in the system?  If so, feel free to look for "@ Poltergeist Prince" or something like that.

 

ADDED CONTENT: I keep sort of trying to work up a story about Snakes, but the interface is such a pain to deal with* and I haven't quite got the story logic ("ha ha, what's that?" said TV and movie writers) worked out.  And there's still that bug that makes all the PC spout there "when you get near them" line the second you hit the map.  I'd like to tell this story and more, but I'm just really not fired up to wrestle with the system.

 

*ME:  "no, really, put this toon... at the back of the map...  and set it so he shows up after you defeat this boss..."

AE: 

[momentarygrace]

8 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

Have you created any custom missions in the AE? -- Several, and was able to port some over from Live even.  And I've made one new since HC showed up.

 

If so do you prefer to build standalone singular missions or create essentially your own story driven taskforce? --- More or less stand-alones.  Did have a few continuing characters though.

 

Do you create custom NPCs or enemies for your content? --- Sometimes yeah; sometimes all of them, sometimes none of them.

 

Does that add to your narrative or just a creative outlet for you? --- What, creating my NPCs?  depends on what the story calls for.

 

What other elements of the Mission Architect do you use when designing your missions? --- ... I don't understand the question.

 

Are there RP elements to your story driven AE missions? --- If I understand this question, no, just sharing stories, nothing about my "main" or whatever.

 

How difficult is your AE missions? -- Not, I'm not that sort of gamer.

 

What drives you to design your own missions or stories in the AE? --- Silly jokes, stories I wanna tell.

 

Feel free to plug some of your own content.  --- They're pretty stupid, go play 'em!  I have one that got into a Dev's Choice even!  Do they file in the system under our main player name in the system?  If so, feel free to look for "@ Poltergeist Prince" or something like that.

 

ADDED CONTENT: I keep sort of trying to work up a story about Snakes, but the interface is such a pain to deal with* and I haven't quite got the story logic ("ha ha, what's that?" said TV and movie writers) worked out.  And there's still that bug that makes all the PC spout there "when you get near them" line the second you hit the map.  I'd like to tell this story and more, but I'm just really not fired up to wrestle with the system.

 

*ME:  "no, really, put this toon... at the back of the map...  and set it so he shows up after you defeat this boss..."

AE: 

 

1. props for gif

 

2. I have a yule arc (short, 3 mish) where the player is tasked with rescusing some holiday characters, who each have a line of dialog they should say when player is near that identify them, however instead, they all shout them at the same time, the minute player enters the map. Got very frustrated with this.

 

 

 

[Snarky]

I do not have much to add here.

 

1) stop posting cat 🐱 pictures movies memes etc

2) I only AE with Farmers.  And rarely.  I have an alt acct farmer to level my projects.  I have a main acct farmer to join the extremely rare SG spontaneous “let’s help our friend get all their levels RIGHT NOW” event

3) i need to badge all of AE for my 2023 main.  That will be entirely new to me

[Spaghetti Betty]

2 hours ago, Snarky said:

1) stop posting cat 🐱 pictures movies memes etc

[momentarygrace]

21 hours ago, Snarky said:

1) stop posting cat 🐱 pictures movies memes etc

 

 

 

[Darmian]

On 2/28/2023 at 6:02 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

Have you created any custom missions in the AE? 

Like others have said, see my sig 🙂

 

On 2/28/2023 at 6:02 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

If so do you prefer to build standalone singular missions or create essentially your own story driven task force?

Well I prefer neither. I HAVE created standalone arcs, and trilogies (3 arcs with 15 missions) that aren't task force style things. And I've made something I describe as a long form "streaming style TV" series, consisting of a single prequel arc of 5 missions and then 3 "seasons" of story comprising 15 missions each. 

 

On 2/28/2023 at 6:02 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

Do you create custom NPCs or enemies for your content? 

 

I think this is actually necessary for most AEs. Players IMO like to see new and different enemies as well as old favourites and mixing and matching the two can really pay off.

 

On 2/28/2023 at 6:02 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

Does that add to your narrative or just a creative outlet for you?

 

Despite what I said above, if it doesn't add to the narrative or aid the story then I think I'm getting it wrong. I'm not saying I'm getting it right! But narrative drives things. If I'm creating an AE I never have a "cool enemy" or setpiece idea and then shoehorn a story around it. For me it has to be the other way round.

 

On 2/28/2023 at 6:02 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

What other elements of the Mission Architect do you use when designing your missions?

You know I don't know what this means. There are a lot of moving parts to AE building. It looks simple but it's got its trickiness. And some of it is not intuitive. One thing I've learned in testing when something interesting but unexpected happens is to make a note of the parameters used and file that away for later, in a "how do I make it look like I meant that to happen' way 

 

On 2/28/2023 at 6:02 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

Are there RP elements to your story driven AE missions?

That entirely depends on what the player(s) bring to them. I write mine so anyone can play them.

 

That said all of mine are canon related or canon adjacent. In fact the two Praetorian trilogies are designed to fit directly after Neutropolis but before hitting First Ward. 

 

On 2/28/2023 at 6:02 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

How difficult is your AE missions?

 

Not incredibly difficult but there are some challenges. Like most things it'll depend on your difficulty level.

 

On 2/28/2023 at 6:02 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

What drives you to design your own missions or stories in the AE? Feel free to plug some of your own content.

 

I like to do as @cranebump says and find spaces and cracks in the Lore and fill them as best as I can. 

 

As for plugging my stuff? I've been fortunate enough to get several Dev Choices and they and the rest of my AEs are in my signature.

[Darmian]

Our intrepid explorer @TerroirNoir has been working their way slowly through many an AE built by myself, @cranebump and @Ankylosaur (not to mention a detour into holiday AEs). And @Zhym has listed them all here so far.

 

 

 

[TerroirNoir2]

17 hours ago, Darmian said:

Our intrepid explorer @TerroirNoir has been working their way slowly through many an AE built by myself, @cranebump and @Ankylosaur (not to mention a detour into holiday AEs). And @Zhym has listed them all here so far.

 

 

 

Yeah, well I do my best but there's SOOO much stuff in there that's actually great.  And even better, I can't wiki it to find out what is waiting for me!  It's NEW NEW NEW!

 

 

[Tarrquinn]

I've used AE a handful of times over the years, mostly to create overhauls of existing NPCs or enemy groups. A lot of the Blueside contacts are really outdated and flat-looking, so I went through and remade some of them in AE just to see what they'd look like. Additionally, I've worked on overhauls of the Hellions and Crey to bring their looks up to a more modern standard. IMO Hellions, Warriors, Trolls, and Outcasts need a visual update similar to the Skulls, Rikti, or COT; AE is an excellent tool for me to try and bring that idea to life. I've thought about using AE to create backstories or character-specific content to RP or headcanon with, but I don't really have the time for it. Otherwise, I don't use AE much at all; I don't like using it to farm (which seems to be its main usage), and I don't really have an interest in playing player-made arcs.

[Oubliette_Red]

I made a couple of arcs, but it was back on Legacy. Both were 3-5 missions long and for RP purposes. One of them involved tidbit lore regarding there being pockets of humanity on Praetorian Earth outside of Cole's city of Praetoria and the chain had our team getting to New Tokyo, defeating a war lord, then rescuing and evacuating survivors while fending off minions of Hamidon. Afterwards I altered dialog to make that one more generic so anyone could play, rather than the three characters I had made it for.

 

[BurtHutt]

What drives me to work on AE stuff is the HOPE that the Devs implement my idea to use player made content (via AE) and implement it into the regular game. This is my only desire and hope. I've been asking for over 2 years. 

[TerroirNoir2]

I have to say that old TerroirNoir here doesn't make any arcs but actually playing them is a major part of what I play in the game, so many good SFMAs in there, so many.  I encourage people to look for them and to try them out, and because they are so diverse don't get put off if you hit one you don't like, keep looking!