Patch Notes for February 25th, 2020 (Issue 26, Page 5 - Build 1)

[Bossk_Hogg]

43 minutes ago, DMW45 said:

I feel like that might make it too useful in comparison to the other origin sets.  I don't think there's any other general pool power with -regen.

Well we certainly don't want a power pick you slot to compete with a p2W temp power!

[DMW45]

Just now, Bossk_Hogg said:

Well we certainly don't want a power pick you slot to compete with a p2W temp power!

I mean more that origin sets are mutually exclusive.

[Bossk_Hogg]

13 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

 

I was playing last night (this morning) right after the announcement in Discord and did some street sweeping up to L4. I found Rejuvenating Circuit at that level to be not useful at all at least not while solo. Though I suppose it's no different that Empathy or Kinetics with their early heals.

Empathy has healing aura and kinetics has transfusion, both of which affect the caster. moreover, you dont have to wait for the chain to hopefully land on the second most hurt ally. 

[Doc_Scorpion]

14 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

So I rolled up a Shock/Electric defender. Electric blast kind of sucks on defenders due to 1) no AT specific scaling on end drain (hint hint devs) and 2) being electric blast. But I figured I would test the combo most likely to be rolled. Chose Shock as my starting power

Best to post this in the Focused Feedback thread!

[TheMuna]

4 hours ago, DatBooster said:

I have a strong concern about bloat in the dark melee set. I dunno if bloat is the right word for it, but we're already factoring in so much crank damage with how dark melee's T8 is part of its base rotation in most builds.

Amping Dark Consumption to a nuke-level attack means that, in a theoretical situation, someone would ideally pop Soul Drain, get upwards of 40-50% bonus damage, and immediately rip out with an Extreme nuke and annihilate an entire group. 
On top of this, let's take a theoretical build, a Dark Melee/Shield build, where we also have Against All Odds to the mix, adding another big chunk of damage bonus. It might just be too much giving to Dark Melee. Let it have some AOE difficulty, but keep that sweet Shadow Maul cone boost. 

Shadow maul recharge time was also increased. So you have to factor in that dark melee is very bursty for AOE but essentially only has a 14 recharge cone to mix into a chain, which isn't much. So yes, if it takes out the crowd initially with a couple of hits, that's alot, but if it doesn't, you have a to go punch kill everything individually.

Edited February 25, 2020 by TheMuna

[Trickshooter]

Electrokinesis would be fine, but to me that sounds more like the comic book name for Electric Control. What about Electrogenesis? Does that sound a little more uh... support-y?

[Captain Powerhouse]

3 hours ago, Doomrider said:

One thing I will say, is the changes to dark consumption as written in the OP are a bit misleading at least as far as I can tell. The tool tip for dark consumption still reads 8' radius, so unless the tooltip just didnt get updated, it's not lightning rod like at all in terms of power range and it has no TP function. That and Shadow maul is a still a melee cone, so while the changes will definitely make it better, it's still going to favor sets with a taunt aura to really maximize this and more easily allow mobs to bunch up for that *potential* 10 target max.

 

Playing catchup on the thread so sorry if this has been covered but this is accurate. Damage is similar at 100% endurance, but the power still only has a 10 target cap on scrappers and brutes while Lightning Rod is 16 targets on all ATs, and the radius is way smaller at 8ft vs Lightning Rods 20ft radius.

[Jimmy]

Hello! Please use these focused feedback threads going forwards:

• Focused Feedback: Experimentation
• Focused Feedback: Shock Therapy
• Focused Feedback: New IO Sets
• Focused Feedback: Dark Melee Update

Feel free to continue discussing any other changes not covered by those four threads here.

[Bossk_Hogg]

25 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Best to post this in the Focused Feedback thread!

Will do! There wasnt one when I started typing it up heh.

[Sailboat]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

It was bottom tier before this change while MA was a solid mid tier. I'll have to te run it.

Bottom tier for AoE or bottom tier period?  I've seen a lot of talk about Dark/Shield being great.

[Brutal Justice]

3 hours ago, Doomrider said:

The patch is 7 hrs old and people are already calling the changes to DM a bit OP... unbelievable. 🤣 In a world where TW exists...

One thing I will say, is the changes to dark consumption as written in the OP are a bit misleading at least as far as I can tell. The tool tip for dark consumption still reads 8' radius, so unless the tooltip just didnt get updated, it's not lightning rod like at all in terms of power range and it has no TP function. That and Shadow maul is a still a melee cone, so while the changes will definitely make it better, it's still going to favor sets with a taunt aura to really maximize this and more easily allow mobs to bunch up for that *potential* 10 target max.

The thing with dark melee is, it’s already a great set.  It may not be the best single target damage, and it may be towards the bottom in aoe.  However, it is the best at what it does.  It takes relatively little investment and is quite often the most suggested set to take to compliment a lot of builds.

 

Powerset diversity needs to be embraced.  Not make everything the same.  Do people want energy melee fixed by giving it tons of aoe?  Most people want it back to single target king.  Is stone melee going to turn fault into foot stomp because aoe is all these devs and players care about?

 

There is nothing wrong with current dark melee as a whole.  A case could be made for shadow maul and that’s probably it.  A rising tide raises all ships.  Bringing dark melee up to such a level will require other sets to rise as well.  

[Captain Powerhouse]

3 hours ago, Replacement said:

I'm guessing Dark Melee was buffed first because a) it underperforms in aoe and b) is early in the alphabet.

 

Dark melee was first because it was the easiest to adjust as it had powers that could simply be buffed for AoE. Martial Arts and Energy Melee are also due AoE buffs but those are harder since they only have one AoE power and the Stalker versions have nothing, so it will require fancier special mechanics or blurring the cottage rule a bit.

[Wavicle]

Just now, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Dark melee was first because it was the easiest to adjust as it had powers that could simply be buffed for AoE. Martial Arts and Energy Melee are also due AoE buffs but those are harder since they only have one AoE power and the Stalker versions have nothing, so it will require fancier special mechanics or blurring the cottage rule a bit.

Do you feel that the change to Shadow Maul is enough for Stalkers?  Since they don't get Dark Consumption?

If we were redesigning Stalkers more generally I would want to see many of the older sets given a treatment like Ice Melee, where Assassins Strike replaces a single target attack instead of an AoE. Ninja Blade with Lotus Drops instead of Soaring Dragon, Energy Melee with Whirling Hands instead of Stun, etc.

[oldskool]

3 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

Martial Arts and Energy Melee are also due AoE buffs but those are harder since they only have one AoE power and the Stalker versions have nothing, so it will require fancier special mechanics or blurring the cottage rule a bit.

This has been a wonderful day!!!

I mean really.  I love these classic sets so damn much.  Dark, Martial Arts, and Energy Melee are literally my first picks from 2004 for characters.  I'm down to wait since there are things to work out here but...

[Super Atom]

10 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Dark melee was first because it was the easiest to adjust as it had powers that could simply be buffed for AoE. Martial Arts and Energy Melee are also due AoE buffs but those are harder since they only have one AoE power and the Stalker versions have nothing, so it will require fancier special mechanics or blurring the cottage rule a bit.

 

Energy Transfer to an AOE (Possibly with DR)

or

Total Focus to an AOE (also possibly with DR)

 

Doesn't seem that hard. I mean, some AV's do it.

 

or like below said. just put it back

Edited February 25, 2020 by Super Atom

[Brutal Justice]

2 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Dark melee was first because it was the easiest to adjust as it had powers that could simply be buffed for AoE. Martial Arts and Energy Melee are also due AoE buffs but those are harder since they only have one AoE power and the Stalker versions have nothing, so it will require fancier special mechanics or blurring the cottage rule a bit.

Have people really asked for more aoe in energy melee to fix its issues?   I dont read all of the posts but the last time I looked at one of those threads the majority would be happy with energy transfer just going back to its original animation and values.  

[valcryst81]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

Turning Faraday Cage into a toggle would remove value from the one worthwhile benefit Force Field provides at high levels: AoE mez protection. 

 

If you do that, then I would like to see a complete overhaul of Force Field simultaneously. 

And what about Sonic (Sonic Dispersion) then? Or Traps (Force Field Generator)?

Thats not an argument 🙂

[oldskool]

1 minute ago, Mr.Sinister said:

Have people really asked for more aoe in energy melee to fix its issues?   I dont read all of the posts but the last time I looked at one of those threads the majority would be happy with energy transfer just going back to its original animation and values.  

I've seen complaints about Whirling Hands alongside ones about ET and TF.  Maybe not so much here on the HC forums because Energy Melee is a known pariah set by a lot of veteran players. 

Dragon's Tail is much the same way on Martial Arts.  I feel like DT is less of a kick in the pants (see what I did there?) than Whirling Hands.  Though Whirling Hands being just 'meh' really does feel like adding insult to injury with the EM animation changes. 

Honestly the word of any buffs to Energy Melee is enough to get me excited. 

Fingers crossed some animation times are looked at even if the damage values get tweaked (hopefully to be fair).

[Apparition]

5 minutes ago, valcryst81 said:

And what about Sonic (Sonic Dispersion) then? Or Traps (Force Field Generator)?

Thats not an argument 🙂

 

My main is a Beam Rifle/Sonic Resonance Corruptor, so I know about Sonic Resonance.  In addition to providing AoE mez protection, it also provides valuable +resistance (which is relatively rare), and -resistance debuffs (which is very valuable).  Don't get me wrong, Sonic Resonance is not in a great place, but it's in a better place than Force Field which contributes nothing else of value at high levels than AoE mez protection.

 

Traps, I have never played so that I won't discuss.

[Tater Todd]

32 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

The thing with dark melee is, it’s already a great set.  It may not be the best single target damage, and it may be towards the bottom in aoe.  However, it is the best at what it does.  It takes relatively little investment and is quite often the most suggested set to take to compliment a lot of builds.

 

Powerset diversity needs to be embraced.  Not make everything the same.  Do people want energy melee fixed by giving it tons of aoe?  Most people want it back to single target king.  Is stone melee going to turn fault into foot stomp because aoe is all these devs and players care about?

 

There is nothing wrong with current dark melee as a whole.  A case could be made for shadow maul and that’s probably it.  A rising tide raises all ships.  Bringing dark melee up to such a level will require other sets to rise as well.  

Dark Consumption and Soul Drain were meant to be AOE in Dark Melee all along.  It's just that Dark Consumption was lacking a great deal and wasn't even up to snuff when the set first came out.  A lot of the early sets were made by feel and not function because that was not the focus of the Dev team at the time.   I think of these changes as making the set perform in the way it was intended all along.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Tater Todd

[Brutal Justice]

3 hours ago, Replacement said:

I think it's pretty clear:

Tanker changes highlighted massive differences between the sets vis a vis aoe performance.  I'm guessing Dark Melee was buffed first because a) it underperforms in aoe and b) is early in the alphabet.

 

Other sets will get adjustments, I'm sure, but I gather the focus right now is reducing the huge parity gaps for Tankers, specifically.

Rather than highlighted I think you could say the tanker changes exacerbated or created more of the issues.  Another reason the aoe buffs to tanks was the wrong direction to take them.  The buffs are fun, but a buff that requires a buff that requires another buff is not good.  It accelerates inflation.  City of More Damage.  

[Ironscarlet]

2 Controllers Amping each other up.

 

" You Amp bro"

 

" No you Amp Bro"

 

 

 

 

 

Aw man just read only for defenders, give  controllers some love =P

Edited February 25, 2020 by Ironscarlet

[siolfir]

3 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

My main is a Beam Rifle/Sonic Resonance Corruptor, so I know about Sonic Resonance.  In addition to providing AoE mez protection, it also provides valuable +resistance (which is relatively rare), and -resistance debuffs (which is very valuable).  Don't get me wrong, Sonic Resonance is not in a great place, but it's in a better place than Force Field which contributes nothing else of value at high levels than AoE mez protection.

 

Traps, I have never played so that I won't discuss.

Value judgement of the contribution aside, let's not forget that Force Fields provides +bouyancy!

[Galaxy Brain]

26 minutes ago, Sailboat said:

Bottom tier for AoE or bottom tier period?  I've seen a lot of talk about Dark/Shield being great.

In a vacuum pitted against other primaries it is consistently the slowest performer and in a pinch its mitigation was not as powerful as other sets which could just eliminate threats or have AoE (soft) control

[Deathvirus]

The end drain in Shock Therapy truly is too powerful in this set in PvP.  Strength of it combined with its low cooldown is monstrous 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Deathvirus