Focused Feedback: Travel Updates: Base Teleportation, Long Range Teleporter Accolade, Special TP Powers

[Mr. Vee]

40 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Because this is still City of Heroes. Travel is and always has been part of the game.
 

Plenty of games (both offline and online) with no subscriptions or micro transactions still involve travel. That’s got nothing to do with it.

So I shouldn't ask for instant recharge on Team Teleporter...sigh

[@Ghost]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

Worst case you have to spend a few days logged off by an SG base portal to get some charges of those day job powers, and then you go back to whatever other location you prefer.

It's 4 days and change to actually accumulate the charges and Patroller before you start getting both at once. And even then re: relative power, it's always a far more impactful day job choice than its peers. But,

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

I don’t think there’s been enough realistic testing (ie: actually running missions over an extended period) for anyone to say one way or another if this is the case right now.

I think this is also true. My idea of the situation could be totally overblown and a non-starter, or there's other aspects people aren't considering, ie: not having LRTP or forgetting to pick up Base TP/SG Portal on every character, Ouro and LRTP only having certain destinations, slow computers making load times for TP->(Ouro->)zone->base->zone a real pain in the ass, etc.

 

Bringing up the median metrics does remind me to just sort of look at the grander scope and say like, "would a 5m recharge break this? 2m? 90s?" And considering we already have a 0s option, I don't think the game has come unraveled even at that extreme end? So I don't see the harm in erring on the side of convenience and catering to the extreme end of those metrics.

 

[Jimmy]

Another thing that's not really been spoken about is the issue that the current status quo invalidates several influence sinks in P2W (specifically, the prestige powers). Inf sinks are a really important part of keeping a cap on inflation and keeping the market in check (which, if you've been here for a while, you know is very important to us).

 

The current spread of options in this build encourages you to spend some money on those sinks if you want maximum speed with minimum effort, which is overall a good thing for the game economy. You can bypass this if you want to choose a specific day job, but that's entirely up to you.

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

Because this is still City of Heroes. Travel is and always has been part of the game.

Minor nitpick, even with the existing slash command, we still are traveling the majority of the time. 

[Dreamboat]

57 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

Minor nitpick, even with the existing slash command, we still are traveling the majority of the time. 

This. If there's a secret no-startup-no-cooldown slash command that takes me to outer island Talos mission doors instantly, boy, I'd like to know about it.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Dreamboat

[Blackbird71]

7 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Re: all the posts about the Day Job powers.

 

Why are the day job powers the best ones?

They aren't. They have limited charges. They are balanced around having limited charges.

 

Why can't the P2W powers have the same cooldown as the day job power?

Because they don't have limited charges. They are balanced around not having limited charges.

 

Why do the day job powers have limited charges?

Because that's how day job powers work. They are small, additive, limited bonuses based on where you log out in.

 

 

All of those are arbitrary restrictions.  Changing them has zero impact on the functionality of the game, or the balance between players.  All it does is enforce inconvenience for inconvenience's sake.  There is no crucial reason to hold to this justification, and there is significant reason to change it.

[Dombloo]

After testing out the new cooldown and activation times of the transportation powers, I'd say I'm mostly satisfied.

 

I had initially hoped for the Supergroup Portal power to have its recharge brought down to 5 minutes (affected by global recharge, a little under a 3 minute recharge w/ perma hasten), but the changes to activation time and cooldown on LRT and Base Transporter now makes rotating between the aforementioned powers and Supergroup Portal have similar enough teleport uptime (and with a higher possible teleport frequency than my proposal). Moreover, the new changes to LRT and Base Transporter—both of which I suspected I wouldn't even put in my tray—are now attractive powers to use; which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. 

 

Two changes that I'd like to see:

1. I'm not a fan of LRT dropping you at the supergroup portals in zones (the same spawn location the base teleporters drop you off at), it's redundant and it would be more beneficial (in my opinion) if the spawn locations were in areas that are less accessible through base teleports (e.g. south side of IP, east side of Eden). This change would help cut down on travel time to areas not near base portals, rewarding those who put a little extra thought into which transportation power they activate. I understand this change will be less attractive to those seeking to use LRT as a third base teleporter. 

 

2. Given some of the criticism in this thread so far this may be an unpopular addition, but as someone who doesn't shy away from influence sinks—I would love it if the P2W vendor would sell charges of supergroup base-related Day Job powers (call it Paid Time-Off). I would pay upward of 1 million influence per charge of Base Transporter/Supergroup Portal if I was in a bind and really wanted that additional convenience.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Dombloo

[Thorny Devil]

Don't know if this has been suggested, but adding Steel Canyon, Skyway City and Brickstown to the Ouroboros Portal would be nice.

[retiarius]

16 hours ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

And why exactly do these powers need to be "balanced" when there's no need for travel to be a time sink in a non-subscription game? 

Proof-of-concept is another possibility.
 
It would be unrealistic to believe both that the current model and the game's well-being will last indefinitely.  The more capably it can be demonstrated that the current game management team is capable of making considered decisions to evolve the game's future (in part through balance decisions), the more likely it is to get broad buy-in from users when other future changes become necessary that help ensure the game's survival and growth.

 

[Bionic_Flea]

15 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Because this is still City of Heroes. Travel is and always has been part of the game.
 

Plenty of games (both offline and online) with no subscriptions or micro transactions still involve travel. That’s got nothing to do with it.

But Jimmy, why can't I go anywhere, instantly, with no endurance cost, recharge, or animation time?

[Oginth]

17 hours ago, Jimmy said:

But there's too many / too few different options!

That's a fair comment. As you can see in this very thread, different people want more options, and others want less. It's a fine line, and we're doing our best to make everyone happy.

 

When I need to make a table for myself to tell sort them out, there are too many. But that's my 2cent. ( Attached file may be wrong, as I'm still sorting them out what each is supposed to do. )

[Hew]

7 minutes ago, Oginth said:

 

When I need to make a table for myself to tell sort them out, there are too many. But that's my 2cent. ( Attached file may be wrong, as I'm still sorting them out what each is supposed to do. )

I don't see this as complicated at all, let alone needing the graph.

6 of these didn't even merit inclusion. 1 of those is sketchy at best (LRT).

 

That leaves you with Monitor Duty (new), RRP (new). The rest have been around since time immemorial (incarnate, att, mt, tt, oport, basetp, sg portal). I take it by your inclusion of these you are new to the game, relatively new to the game, or just making a graph to prove a point that doesn't really exist. 

 

People, for YEARS, used  (incarnate, att, mt, tt, oport, basetp, sg portal) to get around. People actually learned which combination of what got you around fastest. I had for many many years at least 4 of those on my power bar at all times: att, tt, oport, mt. 

[ShardWarrior]

38 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

But Jimmy, why can't I go anywhere, instantly, with no endurance cost, recharge, or animation time?

Who is suggesting this?  Once again, the base command was not an instant teleport from mission door to mission door.  Trying to portray it as such is dishonest, disingenuous and spreading misinformation. 

[QuiJon]

16 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Because this is still City of Heroes. Travel is and always has been part of the game.
 

Plenty of games (both offline and online) with no subscriptions or micro transactions still involve travel. That’s got nothing to do with it.

So by this comment for over the last year none of us have been playing city of heroes cause we had an at will base teleport with no cool down? As has been pointed out the slash command only took you to your base. You still had to transport to a zone and use a travel power from there. 

 

I consider that I have still been playing city of heroes since april 2019. I have just enjoyed it even more since finding out about the slash command.

[QuiJon]

1 hour ago, retiarius said:

Proof-of-concept is another possibility.
 
It would be unrealistic to believe both that the current model and the game's well-being will last indefinitely.  The more capably it can be demonstrated that the current game management team is capable of making considered decisions to evolve the game's future (in part through balance decisions), the more likely it is to get broad buy-in from users when other future changes become necessary that help ensure the game's survival and growth.

 

Wouldn't proof of concept be that no game currently requires time sink things like travel to be considered game play any longer. Even in a open sandbox game like Gta, zelda, RDR that do require you to spend time traveling it's a means of involving you in side quests and other content. Some ar its base coh was not designed to do and not sure it can be added in the same way. Traveling in coh was always a time sink. Longer it took to travel longer you subscribed. But off today's gaming standards this game would never fly to just force long boring segments of travel between every 5 minute mission. 

[QuiJon]

16 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Another thing that's not really been spoken about is the issue that the current status quo invalidates several influence sinks in P2W (specifically, the prestige powers). Inf sinks are a really important part of keeping a cap on inflation and keeping the market in check (which, if you've been here for a while, you know is very important to us).

 

The current spread of options in this build encourages you to spend some money on those sinks if you want maximum speed with minimum effort, which is overall a good thing for the game economy. You can bypass this if you want to choose a specific day job, but that's entirely up to you.

Considering your last major change cut my influence earning by like 45 percent or so this is possible the worst rational for these changes that could have been put forward. I mean seriously if you want to infl sink then make powers worth getting that are new or charge way more for things people do buy that cause other problem like the buffs that just compound power creep even worse then it already is 

Edited November 1, 2020 by QuiJon

[Dreamboat]

19 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Another thing that's not really been spoken about is the issue that the current status quo invalidates several influence sinks in P2W (specifically, the prestige powers).

Can you say which specific powers? Base Transporter, for sure, but if you mean things like Mission Transporter, ATT, Team Transporter etc. "invalidation" is definitely not the case. Those powers have different practical functions that are useful in addition to the slash command.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Dreamboat

[retiarius]

1 hour ago, QuiJon said:

Wouldn't proof of concept be that no game currently requires time sink things like travel to be considered game play any longer.

It's an ancillary goal that you want people to spend as much time in-game as possible - the trick is finding the balance that produces the greatest number playing for the longest time without losing: a) players who get frustrated and cease playing because they've burned through the content at high speed, or b) players who get frustrated at the abundance of perceived time sinks in the game that inhibit playing the game in the way that they want to play it.

Edited November 1, 2020 by retiarius
grammar fix

[Heraclea]

16 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Another thing that's not really been spoken about is the issue that the current status quo invalidates several influence sinks in P2W (specifically, the prestige powers). Inf sinks are a really important part of keeping a cap on inflation and keeping the market in check (which, if you've been here for a while, you know is very important to us).

 

The current spread of options in this build encourages you to spend some money on those sinks if you want maximum speed with minimum effort, which is overall a good thing for the game economy. You can bypass this if you want to choose a specific day job, but that's entirely up to you.

I have been farming furiously the past week or so; just for my level 50s this is going to set me back more than 300 million in inf.   I don't normally play for inf, or even try to keep inf on hand; I prefer to convert it ASAP to items with lasting value, so keeping enough inf to transition is going to be difficult for me. 

 

That said, the shorter cooldowns of the powers makes this much more tolerable.  If there were permanent portals in Cimerora and Ouro, I'd use them instead, but the summoned power at least works in Cimerora, and from Ouro it's just a step to IP.  So long as solo queuing to TF contact remains unharmed, I can live with this.

[AboveTheChemist]

1 hour ago, ShardWarrior said:

Who is suggesting this?  Once again, the base command was not an instant teleport from mission door to mission door.  Trying to portray it as such is dishonest, disingenuous and spreading misinformation. 

If you aren't familiar with Bionic_Flea's posts, he often posts similar 'But Jimmy!' type questions in response to Jimmy's posts, in what I am quite confident is intended to be a humorous poke at the issue and not at all intended to be a serious question.

[Lines]

4 minutes ago, retiarius said:

It's an ancillary goal that you want people to spend as much time in-game as possible - the trick is finding the balance that produces the greatest number playing for the longest time without losing: a) players who get frustrated and cease playing because they've burned through the content at high speed, or b) players who get frustrated at the abundance of perceived time sinks in the game that inhibit playing the game in the way that they want to play it.

 

You, I like.

[Heraclea]

3 minutes ago, retiarius said:

It's an ancillary goal that you want people to spend as much time in-game as possible - the trick is finding the balance that produces the greatest number playing for the longest time without losing: a) players who get frustrated and cease playing because they've burned through the content at high speed, or b) players who get frustrated at the abundance of perceived time sinks in the game that inhibit playing the game that they want to play it.

I think it's also a goal to have a visibly lively world, especially in a highly instanced game like this.  Having a good number of active players in social hubs like AP. PD, PI, Ouro, Talos, and Cim reassures players and makes the game seem more welcoming and less daunting.  Without that visible activity, people will seem lost. You don't want the whole game to look like Praetoria. 

[retiarius]

1 hour ago, Heraclea said:

I think it's also a goal to have a visibly lively world, especially in a highly instanced game like this.  Having a good number of active players in social hubs like AP. PD, PI, Ouro, Talos, and Cim reassures players and makes the game seem more welcoming and less daunting.  Without that visible activity, people will seem lost. You don't want the whole game to look like Praetoria. 

I'd agree to some extent, especially with respect to newer players, and to some degree, older ones.  But another measure of the world's liveliness is also dependent on how active its social and team-forming channels are - if fewer are looking for groups or, looking to make groups, then a whole bunch of people standing around in Pocket D can make you feel left out rather than included.

[Furiant]

So why do we still have the /ah command instead of having to physically travel to the location? Why can we manage our vaults at a distance? Why is it that when we summon a transport with Team Teleport it appears instantly, instead of having to wait for the vehicle to be readied, launched, and travel to us?

 

The reason is because that would suck. I'm not convinced by all the "real life" and "must have a time cost" arguments for the base tps when they seem to arbitrarily not apply to other convenience oriented mechanics.

 

I guess I just don't see what this improves. It just seems to take something simple and convenient and make it more complicated and tedious.

 

Who was asking for this? Of all the things in need of fixes or improvments, who would point to this and say "that is high priority"?

Edited November 1, 2020 by Furiant

[retiarius]

1 hour ago, Furiant said:

So why do we still have the /ah command instead of having to physically travel to the location?

 

It improves the game in the perspectives of some, and makes it worse for others. In the final analysis, you'll have some who would want the /ah command removed as well, and others who believe removing it would be completely counterproductive.  Maybe it too will eventually be removed.
 
The key though, is that it doesn't really matter what you or I think - it's the homecoming team's boat, and they'll steer it in whatever direction they see fit, if they believe that it improves the game.  This isn't navigation by democracy or popular opinion.

 

The most important choice one can make is at some point whether to stay on the ship (whatever it's destination), or to grab a life preserver, jump into the open ocean, and see what other possibilities are out there.