Brutes are bad m'kay

[Snarky]

So, funny as it seems this was a topic in Help a couple days ago.  A long time Brute player I tried, for like two sentences, to speak some balance to this.  Only to be shot down with wild inaccuracies.  Left ol' Snarky scratching my head.  laughed.  walked away.

 

So, Lets discuss Brutes!  How does Fury, Enhancement, Damage Cap, Resists, Health, etc all go into making the glorious battle lovin' AT that so many of us love to rock through content.

 

Oh, and Brutes are BAAAAAAD.  (in a very powerful way)  M'kay?

 

 

[gamingglen]

But Brutes is bad as he always kidnaps Olive Oyl, who loves Popeye, so when she rejects Brutes he puts her in some death trap, like tying her to the train track in front of an approaching train. 

[Grindingsucks]

I know you're looking for a detailed analysis, my cheeky Nosferatu friend, but the first thing that popped into my head when I read this was, "HULK SMASH!"  😆

 

I'm suck at builds anyway, so a blueprint for how I make my characters would not be particularly helpful to those looking for maximum efficiency (which I don't care about, in any event) anyway.  What I typically do is slot for damage, resistance, and endurance.  I want to dish it out (dmg), take it(resist), and be able to keep the pressure on (endurance) to keep my rage bar full.  I also find room for the  two AT procs as soon as I can afford them.

 

Works for me.  HULK SMASH! 🤷‍♂️

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by Grindingsucks

[tidge]

Best Brut is Brut Reynolds

[Ironblade]

1 hour ago, gamingglen said:

But Brutes is bad as he always kidnaps Olive Oyl,

Points for spelling Olive Oyl correctly, but the villain's name is Bluto.  🙂

[gamingglen]

53 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

Points for spelling Olive Oyl correctly, but the villain's name is Bluto.  🙂

 

_{Oh.     Never mind.}

 

😉

 

Seriously, I was disappointed that there are not numerous death trap visuals in the game.  All are just some bad people standing next to the victim who is in some victim-emote stance. 😞 (edit) Well, except for COT's victims floating in green smoke and on redside a Family member wearing a cement bucket as shoes (I still chuckle when seeing the latter).

 

P.S. I don't care for brute playstyle, I'll stick to scrappers and stalkers.

Edited April 9, 2021 by gamingglen

[Tiger Shadow]

59 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

Points for spelling Olive Oyl correctly, but the villain's name is Bluto.  🙂

 

It was Brutus for a couple of years.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluto#Bluto_vs._Brutus

[gamingglen]

3 minutes ago, Tiger Shadow said:

 

It was Brutus for a couple of years.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluto#Bluto_vs._Brutus

 

Thanks. Those years (early 60s) were my "formative" years with cartoon watching so that's why Brutus ("boooo!") sticks as the villains name more so than the Bluto ("boooo!"). I do picture Brutus whenever brutes are mentioned in the forums and chat. 😄   

[Coyotedancer]

[Olive voice] You bwoot! [/Olive voice]

 

*slaps with purse*

[Apparition]

A lot of the number crunching meta gamers believe that the Issue 26, Page Four, Tanker buffs essentially made Tankers way better than Brutes in every way except for single target damage... which doesn't really matter much in CoH, where AoE is king.  Especially when you pair Tankers with damage procs.

[BjorJlen]

And for the record, Brutes arn't bad per say even though they are "technically" a villian archtype. Its only the people that play them that can be bad... Big differance... 🙂

[Gulbasaur]

2 hours ago, Tiger Shadow said:

It was Brutus for a couple of years.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluto#Bluto_vs._Brutus

This sent me down a wonderful internet rabbit hole. Thank you!

 

Also, brutes are scrapperlock: the archetype and I think their inherent discourages antisocial play, making it a poor choice for a first character. Good players outnumber bad ones, though, it's just that a bad tank can often have a worse consequence than bad DPS and brutes are a tanking archetype.

[BjorJlen]

7 minutes ago, Gulbasaur said:

This sent me down a wonderful internet rabbit hole. Thank you!

 

Also, brutes are scrapperlock: the archetype and I think their inherent discourages antisocial play, making it a poor choice for a first character. Good players outnumber bad ones, though, it's just that a bad tank can often have a worse consequence than bad DPS and brutes are a tanking archetype.

   I am not exactly sure i fully agree with this sentiment. Brutes, while very much like Tanks, are also very nuch like Scrappers in design. And a poor player who doesn't know how to play a Brute (as in don't always go crazy and agro the whole room of Circle of Thorns... Its ok to just slow down and use tactics too) can be worse then just a poor player on a tank.

 

  After all...

 

"Scrapperlock is a nearly-constant and utterly incurable condition. This condition ranges from the need to be smashing thugs nearly constantly to gunning for that ONE GUY that put him down regardless of the cost. As a result of this condition, it is necessary to allow the scrapper to cause havoc in his own fashion."

 

   And this can lead to some very bad moments for a team. Ala Leroy Jenkins remember (though i dont think he was a Tank or a Brute per say lol). But your right... Good players in CoH always outnumber the bad ines. 🙂

[Sovera]

Brutes are still ok, but Tankers are just better after the patch that buffed them. But for those who like Brutes then continue because you'll be fine.

[arcane]

3 hours ago, Apparition said:

A lot of the number crunching meta gamers believe that the Issue 26, Page Four, Tanker buffs essentially made Tankers way better than Brutes in every way except for single target damage... which doesn't really matter much in CoH, where AoE is king.  Especially when you pair Tankers with damage procs.

That was their assertion, and yet their own data pointed to brutes having higher clear times.

 

So their point really boiled down to “tank mitigation >>>> brute mitigation so much more than brute damage > tank damage [and that could constitute a problem as a matter of opinion]” NOT that tank damage was actually better than brute damage.

 

Which is kind of fair, but the implication that all balancing formulae must follow linear equations is ultimately dubious.

[Spaghetti Betty]

These days I have way more scrappers and tankers than I do brutes. but my 2 main brutes are still super fun to play. I probably lock harder on my StJ/WP brute than I do on any scrapper. That beast just does not go down, ever, and doesn't really feel like he's sacrificing damage for toughness. Also, Brutes STILL have access to heavy hitting melee sets that scrappers don't.

 

 

 

Although the day they proliferate Stone Melee to scrappers is the day I quit brutes.

[Troo]

A motorcycle travel power would make for badder brutes. Just sayin'.

[Apparition]

24 minutes ago, arcane said:

That was their assertion, and yet their own data pointed to brutes having higher clear times.

 

So their point really boiled down to “tank mitigation >>>> brute mitigation so much more than brute damage > tank damage [and that could constitute a problem as a matter of opinion]” NOT that tank damage was actually better than brute damage.

 

Which is kind of fair, but the implication that all balancing formulae must follow linear equations is ultimately dubious.

 

There is a valid point though, because damage procs do allow Tankers to do as much or more damage than Brutes.

[arcane]

7 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

There is a valid point though, because damage procs do allow Tankers to do as much or more damage than Brutes.

Close the gap? Absolutely yes. As much or more? I’ve never seen evidence of it personally.

[KauaiJim]

Aw shoot..  And here I was thinking brutes are good.  Silly me I actually was enjoying them.  Glad I found this out before I spent too much time enjoying them.  Always better to be safe than risk having fun.  I need to go delete a few toons!  😁

 

Probably the only solution to this horrible problem is to combine everything up into one AT.  What do ya think?  Tutes?  Brankers?  Scranks? 

[Snarky]

Just now, KauaiJim said:

Aw shoot..  And here I was thinking brutes are good.  Silly me I actually was enjoying them.  Glad I found this out before I spent too much time enjoying them.  Always better to be safe than risk having fun.  I need to go delete a few toons!  😁

 

Probably the only solution to this horrible problem is to combine everything up into one AT.  What do ya think?  Tutes?  Brankers?  Scranks? 

Sentinels

[Luminara]

17 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Sentinels

 

Defenders.

[BjorJlen]

Avengers? Opps... name already taken lol.

 

But seriously, Brutes are fine, as are Tanks, Sentinels, Defenders, Scrappers, and every other archetype in the game. It's all good. The players that play them though... that is another topic all together, and always a debate...

[Doomrider]

Brutes are like scrappers but without the ATO enabled ego and who can benefit more from team buffs than scrappers can due to their higher base hp and resistance caps.

But really, Brutes are fine for the most part. You can generally pick a primary and pick a secondary, without having to be concerned if the primary is going to be really weak because you chose it on a Brute or if your secondary has a taunt aura or not. So there is a nice freedom in that.

There also happen to be a couple sets that generally are better on a Brute than other AT's, namely Savage Melee due to how the added dot scales with Fury and Stone Melee, that has the superior power order (compared to tanks). Then there is Fiery Aura, which most people are already very familiar with.

I think maybe the Fury ATO proc could get looked at since it feels less impactful now that base Fury generation has been improved.

[Parabola]

The tanks vs brutes thing does depend on sets as well. Now they've had their damage modifier raised tanks do very well with sets that have +dam. I wouldn't play dark melee on a brute for example as it is the absolute bomb on tanks. Give a brute a set that doesn't rely on a +dam mechanic and has decent aoe without the tank radius/arc buffs and they are golden.

 

Brutes are easier to level as well. Fury does so much of the heavy lifting in the early game. This also means they exemp well.

 

Another thing I'm almost embarrassed to admit I consider when choosing between tanks and brutes is teammate expectations. I build and play my tanks exactly the same as brutes, I never take taunt and I build for damage rather than overprotection. Being a tank on a team can carry some expectations but I just want to dive in and smack stuff. People don't expect anything but carnage from brutes!