Impact of large gifts of influence

[Ukase]

So, there's a proverb that states many counsels assure victory...so before I do something that I think is a good thing, I'm going to ask here what everyone's thoughts are about it. 

I have a lot of influence. More than enough to make my next 300 characters, unless prices go way higher than they are now. Possibly even the next 500 characters, depending on whether I wanted to buy now, or craft IOs instead. 

I've seen a name of what must be a newer player based on the questions I've seen asked in these forums, and I'm just tickled pink to see the questions as it means 1) newer player and 2) smart enough to ask for help without begging someone to just do it for them. So, I thought about gifting them 500M or even a billion..but what impact would that have on their enthusiasm to play? 

Anecdotally, I've had mixed results with large gifts. I gave an entire build to what I think is a genuinely hard working person, a parent of a small child. I know they didn't have time to sit in front of the computer and reset farms - they had to commute to work and put the time in. So, I hooked them up for a new build. Still haven't seen this controller they were supposed to make, but I gave it freely with no strings. Even so, they might come on once a month to play, if that. Before the gift, I saw them 3-4 times a week. Could be a coincidence. 

Another time, I spent a good hour answering questions via tells after some answers I gave on the help channel. Hooked them up with the requisite sets of Winter-Os so they could make their own farmer. After about 6 months, they emailed me 500M because they were feeling guilty about all the inf they were earning. I never saw it as a loan, but as a gift, but they repaid me (and overpaid), which earned them some solid credit with me. 

I've given away a couple of winter sets that someone needed to finish their build and 200M - after a week, they stopped playing. 
I've seen this happen at least a dozen times, where I'll give away some inf - and these players just seem to disappear and stop playing. It's not a real big deal, not at all sweating the influence. What I am sweating is if I am ruining their fun by taking away the inherent "carrots" the game has to offer. 

I mean, if the game were simply the beta server where I could go insta-50, immediately get my characters t-4 incarnate..I doubt I would play beyond just testing the character out in a market crash or Apex/Tin Mage. Am I spoiling things by giving things away? Is the gift too large? 
 

How much is too much? 

[ILIWAPCT]

How much is too much?

 

Imagine when you started the game you were given a level 50 and all the IO's you needed? After a week you'd probably move on to a new game.

Back in the "Real World" most people who win the lottery end up broke in a few years.

Player base top complaints:

1. Getting to 50 

2. Getting IO's for their 50

3. Wanting additional post-50 content

(Picard face Palm)

 

You have a lot of influence because you've found the game fun to play.  The influence was a side benefit to the fun the game provided by doing whatever you defined to be fun.   If your new definition of fun is giving away then I can't stop you. Just don't think you are helping.

 

Even in the "Real World" no one wants charity, sure  they will take it but they would rather you teach them how to fish then you give them a fish.

 

TLDR: Anything > 0

[Yomo Kimyata]

Here is what has worked for me.

 

People like autonomy.  Sure no one is going to delete an email with half a billion inf (or will they?) but I've found that people seem to prefer receiving amounts that they *want* or *need* rather than big blocks to do whatever they want with.

 

The two areas I've had the most success in are:  my ongoing giveaway (see my sig for anyone who wants 20mm inf), and periodic contests.  In both cases, people know what there is to gain, and willingly participate.  So in general, they seem to be pretty happy getting what they were looking for, rather than what I feel like giving them.

 

It's really easy to see a lvl 2 in Atlas with a name or bio you like and drop a half billion on them, but they may not want it or need it.

 

When I was pitching my giveaway, I would occasionally post in Help channel on all the shards.  That usually got some good response.

[Dona Eis Requiem]

     I would keep the gifts of large amounts on a tight leash. You're already using some judicious assessment of who to give that to, I would just add to be sure they are someone your Global friends list. These would be people (I assume) you've played with on a regular basis and could better assess if there will be some longevity in the use of your gift.

     For new and/or returning players, I would limit it to no more than 10 million and some advice on a few quick-sale market tips to keep them going.  I say this as one of the recently returned because of a few considerations:

     1. I have/had to decide what server I was going to settle in on.

     2. What character will/have I take to 50+ and feel it's worth the investment?

     3. How many alts am I going to go through before I decide on those considerations?  

...and so on.  

    I'd probably conjure up some type of contest. That way there's still at least some type of effort given to getting the gifts. Handouts do seem to take away the sense of accomplishment, 

and therefore, incentive to work on their character.  /e shrug

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Singularis
-typing without glasses again

[DoctorDitko]

Very cool that you are not only generous, but conscientious about the results of your generosity!

(I hope IRL you are a billionaire, we need more billionaires like you!)

 

Yomo's 20 mill seems to hit a sweet spot.

Since you seem to be cognizant of their builds and such, perhaps focus on one-time gifts of particular enhancements or salvage?

 

I imagine Hero/Villain/Winter packs are less likely to demotivate players than are sheer gifts of influence.

Whatever you do, thanks for your generosity. And for being conscious of its effects!

[Coyotedancer]

I'd say relatively frequent small gifts, scattered widely, rather than larger, individual ones are the way to go.

 

Like someone's bio? Toss a Superpack at them. 

'Notice they don't have any fun procs or specials listed on their powers tab? Give them an attuned one. Kismet +Acc and Reticle +Per are my favorites for that.

Hold a regular costume contest, trivia contest or scavenger hunt with modest prizes.

 

There are all kinds of ways to be generous without drowning someone in a pile of raw INF.

 

 

[Lockpick]

It's an interesting point.  For me, leveling and getting the components I need for my build are the fun.  Once I get to 50 and my build is complete there is really no incentive / goal for me to keep playing that character.

[SwitchFade]

You have 300-500 billion inf?

[Crysis]

It’s a game and as such a past time for most people.  Not everyone plays as often as I will or the way I do.  So if I see an opportunity, I just gift the player a bunch and move on.  Doesn’t matter to me what they do with it or how it impacts the game.  It’s a gift…no strings attached.  If I have expectations on how they spend/use it then it’s no longer a gift but me projecting my expectations onto another human being.

 

I do however prefer to gift to non friends.  I will happily assist a friend in need who asks but I don’t like the chance of a gift negatively impacting a friendship.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Crysis

[A Cat]

As a poverty stricken newbie who has never had more than a million at once, I think you should consider using it as prize money for contests. Some fellow was running a hide and seek game in AP making sure to hide in a place even travel power less people could find. He then did a cc and with donations the total prizes came out to 2 billion. Being poor too is part of the game and is not that bad (at least compared to bring poor irl). But various events and contests are just adding to the overall fun. 

[SwitchFade]

On 7/18/2021 at 9:42 AM, A Cat said:

As a poverty stricken newbie who has never had more than a million at once, I think you should consider using it as prize money for contests. Some fellow was running a hide and seek game in AP making sure to hide in a place even travel power less people could find. He then did a cc and with donations the total prizes came out to 2 billion. Being poor too is part of the game and is not that bad (at least compared to bring poor irl). But various events and contests are just adding to the overall fun. 

All advice on inf generation is now removed. This will now be private.

Edited July 22, 2021 by SwitchFade

[JAMMan0000]

In general,  we all like to feel a sense of accomplishment. It feeds our need to feel a purpose in life. If you help someone achieve something, something that they actively participated in, they get a sense of accomplishment and appreciate your assistance. Its win/win. But, if you completely carry someone to the goal with little investment of their own, there is little to no sense of accomplishment and whatever 'high' they get will be short lived.  So if you give someone so much help with their toon that it gives them a free ride all the way to their ultimate build, there is a good chance they won't enjoy it for long. Combine that with a game that has a ceiling on difficulty, and there is little satisfaction in playing the toon they have or much opportunity for satisfaction from further growth. So not much reason to play any more.

 

So helping people is good, but don't over do it. If you help too much, you can rob people of that sense of accomplishment. Yomo's approach is the perfect example. 20 mil is a great booster, but not enough to alleviate the need to put in your own investment to build a toon. Hence, people appreciate his help and also get their own sense of accomplishment.

[Dazl]

The best gift someone gave me was a farm for my own farmer. That sort of teach a person to fish philosophy. I found it to be more satisfying to earn the wealth then just have it handed to me.

[Spookibus]

I am a recipient of someone's generosity.  I played off-and-on from mid 2005 until sunset and probably had thousands of hours in game.  Only one level 50, but MANY characters between 20 and 40 on both sides.  A lot of those characters had really good IO sets.  

 

So when I reinstalled Homecoming the other day and created a new character, I had a question in Help chat, and someone not only responded, but sent me a big pile of Inf.  

 

I wasn't  looking for a handout, but thanks to that person I can focus on rebuilding my old stable of heroes and villains without having to worry about updating my enhancement slots every couple of levels.

[catsi563]

I always try to help where i can and i dont put qualifiers on it like whether a person can fish or not

 

everyone likes to throw the pull yourself up by your own bootstraps or the give a man teach a man to fish argument around like it makes them morally superiour

 

its a great argument when you have boots or can hold a fishing rod and make it to the river, never have seen the answer to what you do about people who have no boots or cant make it to the river to fish much less actually hold a rod in their hands

Edited July 18, 2021 by catsi563

[Ukase]

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

You have 300-500 billion inf?

322 Billion as of last counting a week ago.  

So, I appreciate everyone's perspective. As much as I like the idea of a costume contest, I'm all too aware that a costume that looks great with one graphic setting may not look the same with another - so those are out. 

I thought about hide & seek. But, perhaps I can borrow a bit from @Yomo Kimyata and a bit from @Troo  (your practices of giving, not your inf!) and give things away to red side lowbies at random. 
Part of me felt like 20M isn't worth moving my character and felt it wasn't enough. Then I thought about 50M, but that's really only enough to get a couple sets of IOs. That's generally why I think more is better - but I also don't want to rob anyone from the joy of hustling and learning where and how to get this and that, as opposed to just using /AH. I suppose it's all relative. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Ukase

[Luminara]

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

You have 300-500 billion inf?

 

He does.  He keeps it in the basement vault of the 22nd National Bank, on Oak Street, in Paragon City.  It's guarded by one Hero and several men armed with sub-machine guns.  I sure hope no-one robs it.

[roleki]

Rather than inf, I like to hand out ATOs at random; it's fast, can be done on a flyby, and I figure an ATO is something they can either liquidate for immediate cash or it can add a little spark of momentum on the way to 50.

 

 

[Snarky]

We have a new person in our SG. I am not social but they did not seem crazy or dumb. We ended up chatting as they asked the beginner questions of CoH and they listened and asked creative questions to my responses 

 

They were respeccing madly even as we discussed the intricacies of CoH. Lamenting buying attuned purples. All the standard stuff.  I ended up dropping 200 mil on them.  Then the next day ran their 50 through a out 2 hours of AE to PL some vet levels ( where i made a good chunk of that 200 back 🙂 )

 

They are clever and engaged and running Incarnate trials with our SG and we ran Posi 1/2 today to start their badging

 

I do not feel i have “ruined their authentic CoH experience.  I think i have given them a ladder so they can step up to where we are all just standing around.  
 

 

[RageusQuitus2]

4 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

Yomo's 20 mill seems to hit a sweet spot.

Since you seem to be cognizant of their builds and such, perhaps focus on one-time gifts of particular enhancements or salvage?

Its nice but slow.  I had to make nearly 100 new accounts (with emails) to get 20 million per and actually do something : )

[Sakai]

Tough question. 

 

When I was starting out a thousand years ago and I was trying to figure out an electric electric blaster, and failing miserably, I came across someone who took pity on me and led me to Wentworth. He explained the, at the time, oh so confusing interface, let me know what kind of IOs to buy (and why) and gave me 10 million to purchase some things so my powers wouldn't be a sea of red all the time. This seemed a Windfall to me considering I had just given away 3 times that amount for a wing recipe. 

Had I been given a billion Influence or even 500 million (which admittedly back in the day didn't go nearly as far) or an entire build I am not actually sure how I would have reacted.   Overjoyed probably. I do not think it would have made me bored with the game but times were different as we were all paying monthly for the sheer pleasure of fighting Hellions. 

 

When I do randomly give away funds it usually maxes out around 100 million. More than enough for a standard build or a tidy nest egg to set you on your way to being Ebil and self sufficient. 

 

A billion I reserve for top prize at a costume contest. Thinking of which I have not done for a while so stay tuned for an upcoming event. 

 

 

 

 

[Xenosone]

While most of you are looking at this from the lens of a game its a pretty solid metephor for life. Just giving money to people doesnt solve problems.

[Sancerre]

4 hours ago, ILIWAPCT said:

How much is too much?

 

Imagine when you started the game you were given a level 50 and all the IO's you needed? After a week you'd probably move on to a new game.

Back in the "Real World" most people who win the lottery end up broke in a few years.

Player base top complaints:

1. Getting to 50 

2. Getting IO's for their 50

3. Wanting additional post-50 content

(Picard face Palm)

 

You have a lot of influence because you've found the game fun to play.  The influence was a side benefit to the fun the game provided by doing whatever you defined to be fun.   If your new definition of fun is giving away then I can't stop you. Just don't think you are helping.

 

Even in the "Real World" no one wants charity, sure  they will take it but they would rather you teach them how to fish then you give them a fish.

 

TLDR: Anything > 0

 

not sure you need to compare it to the real world, but i do think the example fits.  I would personally just liken it to any MMORPG period.  the sequence of events go something like this:

 

1) Rush to 'end-game' (getting to 50)

2) Have base-line equipment to run 'end-game' (getting your 50 IOs)

3) now there is 'nothing to do'

 

city of heroes is somewhat more unique in design because the 'end game' content does not reward you something particularly unique and some of the early game content provides you with permanent significant bonuses (accolades).  but ultimately there will be a point where you are 'done' in terms of character progression, and the process doesnt take very long.... unless your goal is to collect every badge.  the only thing left to do (that will provide a 'reward') is to create another character.

 

so, just like any other MMORPG, providing someone that shortcut may not necessarily 'ruin' their experience but it will very likely diminish their retention/playtime in the game. The experience is the journey getting there... cause otherwise we actually have the test server to just instantly max out a character with perfect IOs.

[RageusQuitus2]

47 minutes ago, roleki said:

Rather than inf, I like to hand out ATOs at random; it's fast, can be done on a flyby, and I figure an ATO is something they can either liquidate for immediate cash or it can add a little spark of momentum on the way to 50.

 

 

Thats a neat idea, stuff that can be slotted at attuned 7-17 that helps acc, endurance (depending on AT).  They probably thinkin 50 Incarnate, but meanwhile you can run low level content at any time.

[Myrmidon]

5 hours ago, Ukase said:

How much is too much? 

Whatever Winters that you consider too much, just send them my way.

 

@Myrmidon