Triage Beacon (AKA that traps power everyone skips)

[Haijinx]

On 9/2/2021 at 12:49 PM, Carnifax said:

Traps is littered with powers like this though. Web Grenade (if not forced into it), Seekers, Caltrops & Triage are skippable. Time Bomb isn't even remotely close to takable. FFG, Acid Mortar, Poison Trap and Time Bomb are both good and fun though. 

 

Like you said it gives you options elsewhere though, my Ice/Traps got to take a lot out of Sorcery, Teleport and my epic to make a pretty fun character. 

So they can get two travel pools AND all the leadership stuff everyone seems to want

[DougGraves]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

That would be a nerf since you couldn’t stack it anymore

 

It would be a nerf for those who stacked it.  And a buff for those who do not.

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, DougGraves said:

 

It would be a nerf for those who stacked it.  And a buff for those who do not.

      Unfortunately while not a terrible idea it's a far greater nerf than buff.  It doesn't take much global recharge with its current recharge and duration to maintain a single Beacon full-time (200 base recharge, 90 sec duration).  You're all but there just pushing recharge into the red within the power itself.  Lack of mobility is the major issue.  On the other hand that's Traps as a set overall.   5 of 9 powers place an immobile trap at a location (and caltrops are an immobile patch for a 6th) so I'm not so sure, as much as it is tempting to do so, that we should start introducing greater mobility to the traps within the set.  A different solution is needed.

[Kyksie]

Traps in general needs a lot of love. Force Field Generator and Acid Mortar are good, Seeker Drones are OK, and pretty much all the other powers are doodoo.

[Riverdusk]

On 9/2/2021 at 7:47 AM, ZemX said:

 

I think the bigger problem with it is simply the recharge time.  Even if you got to the recharge cap, you're only going to lay this down once every 40s (and realistically it's 50s or worse for most people).  On a good team even at +4/x8 that's probably still every other spawn at best or every third spawn at worst.  So cut whatever this does do in half or a third.  And that's a best case.    AVs/GMs are maybe the only place it sticks around long enough to be useful, but how often is that?

 

 

 

Yep, the people who say it is so great because "you can stack it for great regen!" must be playing a very different game than me.   And I'm not even talking about steamroller teams, but even most "normal" teams aren't going to be sticking around the same 40 foot radius for more than 50-60 seconds at a time it'd take to get two of these planted even with lots of recharge, outside the rare AV battle.  Heck, a lot of times even AV's don't last more than 60 seconds.   

 

I'd be for making it mobile, or at the least halving its base recharge (and also halving duration if needed for "balance").   While they are at it, they could cut the animation time (which is also really bad on both beacon and spirit tree and yet another drawback).

[arcane]

12 hours ago, Kyksie said:

Traps in general needs a lot of love. Force Field Generator and Acid Mortar are good, Seeker Drones are OK, and pretty much all the other powers are doodoo.

Yeah see hyperbole is hard to take seriously. Not even mentioning Poison Trap is just signaling that you don’t know how to play the set.
 

Traps is in a good place overall. Web Grenade and Time Bomb need something. That’s mainly it.

 

Traps doesn’t even need to be more mobile. It does well enough within its unique niche.

 

I’m starting to talk myself into making a 3rd Traps.

Edited September 5, 2021 by arcane

[xl8]

On 9/2/2021 at 6:09 AM, Crysis said:

I’ve done this but never sure if it works better there or in Health for me.  Just doesn’t seem to proc much in Beacon.

It is detrimental for your toon, but beneficial to a team.

[Hedgefund]

Everyone skips it huh?  Not me.  I'm content with its current incarnation and though I'd take a buff, I sure wouldn't want to lose the stackability.

[ZemX]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:43 AM, xl8 said:

It is detrimental for your toon, but beneficial to a team.

 

What is detrimental to your toon is detrimental to the team.  Especially for a support AT.  Panacea does more for your team slotted in your Health than it does for anybody slotted in this power.  Even in situations where this power is of any use to begin with, the proc rate is so slow the effect is barely noticeable.

[SeraphimKensai]

Why not change the power completely???

• Idea change it into a power called Poisoned Bait.
• Poisoned Bait is a stationary Massive AOE Taunt Aura, this pulls in mobs to where the trap's user has likely already set up multiple traps.
• Because Poisoned Bait is also Poisonous, it has a pulsing -MaxHP, -Def, and -End.
• It takes Recharge, End Rdx, Defense Debuff, Heal, End Mod, and Accuracy Enhancements
• It takes Accurate Defense Debuff, Accurate Healing, Defense Debuff, and End Mod Set IOs.

Now we can bait in mobs to our traps where we are laying an ambush, they get further debuffed, and it fits the Traps' Set more thematically.

[plainguy]

On 9/1/2021 at 7:43 PM, TraumaTrain said:

Neither of my two trappers skipped it either. It would be cool, though, if it followed you around like the Force Field Generator. That in itself would be plenty of benefit. Take away the recharge and just have it as a floating "generator" that follows you around. 

I like the idea.. I am a bit torn because I have enough recharge on my Robot Traps that I can have 2 out for 40 seconds.. 
I am sure they would remove that ability to double drop if they made it movable. 

 

But again I like the idea..

 

[xl8]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:45 AM, ZemX said:

What is detrimental to your toon is detrimental to the team.  Especially for a support AT. 

And if you're soloing or prefer not to team...

[ZemX]

1 hour ago, xl8 said:

And if you're soloing or prefer not to team...

 

Yes, and...?

[arcane]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:50 AM, SeraphimKensai said:

Why not change the power completely???

• Idea change it into a power called Poisoned Bait.
• Poisoned Bait is a stationary Massive AOE Taunt Aura, this pulls in mobs to where the trap's user has likely already set up multiple traps.
• Because Poisoned Bait is also Poisonous, it has a pulsing -MaxHP, -Def, and -End.
• It takes Recharge, End Rdx, Defense Debuff, Heal, End Mod, and Accuracy Enhancements
• It takes Accurate Defense Debuff, Accurate Healing, Defense Debuff, and End Mod Set IOs.

Now we can bait in mobs to our traps where we are laying an ambush, they get further debuffed, and it fits the Traps' Set more thematically.

Completely obliterating a power >70% of users take as is.. I’m pretty doubtful that’s on the table.

[Arbegla]

On 9/2/2021 at 12:23 PM, Vanden said:

 

I have to imagine that with the 40-foot radius, the proc rate is terrible.

 

But wouldn't the 200 second recharge offset that some? Isn't proc rate based on recharge, and radius?

[Carnifax]

On 9/3/2021 at 12:01 AM, Techwright said:

You do that, though, and the plant people are going to want a floating terrarium for their healing tree.  Not that I'd mind, but I can just see the petitions coming.

Hilariously this is actually a thing. Sometimes if you complete a mission and exit with Spirit Tree it can become mobile.

 

Happened a few times when teaming with a friend a couple of times. It's creepy as hell.

[kelika2]

Weak regen

long recharge

relatively long setup

game moves really fast for people to really stay put

on top of end game burst damage sometimes being too much in the example of pets (mm, temp, incarnate)

you get more mileage out of aid other

 

i would vote to turn it into a techy dart, single target heal + heal over time(not regen).  use the fort dart animation

[ironjoe]

On 9/1/2021 at 6:43 PM, TraumaTrain said:

It would be cool, though, if it followed you around like the Force Field Generator. That in itself would be plenty of benefit. Take away the recharge and just have it as a floating "generator" that follows you around. 

 

Here I am just imaging it following still on the ground as a triage roomba and now I really need to see this one as a reality.

[Galaxy Brain]

The regen is kind of sus by itself... what if it had some sort of scaling effect per unit in its radius?

[Chance Jackson]

On 9/1/2021 at 7:32 PM, arcane said:

Not seeing it.. none of my trappers skip it because it’s an easy survivability boost and can even stack. Is there any data behind the parenthetical assumption in the thread title?

agreed I haven't skipped it on live or on homecoming but I do think the panacea nerf was unnecessary

[Chance Jackson]

On 9/9/2021 at 3:26 AM, Carnifax said:

Hilariously this is actually a thing. Sometimes if you complete a mission and exit with Spirit Tree it can become mobile.

 

Happened a few times when teaming with a friend a couple of times. It's creepy as hell.

probably the result of a cosmic ray flipping whatever register determines if it is rooted or not similar to how sometimes you can still move even though your power is animating

 

Note: I'm not joking about the cosmic ray angle they do effect computer systems in these kinds of ways & why servers use ECC memory

[Carnifax]

Just now, Chance Jackson said:

probably the result of a cosmic ray flipping whatever register determines if it is rooted or not similar to how sometimes you can still move even though your power is animating

 

Note: I'm not joking about the cosmic ray angle they do effect computer systems in these kinds of ways & why servers use ECC memory

Not sure about cosmic rays. Seems to be if you transfer maps (Mish complete). Most pets will transfer with you but Spirit Tree has a habit of doing so and forgetting about the immob effect it gets. So it scuttles off after you. 

 

Weirdly I've never seen the same happen with Acid Mortar or Spectral Terror. Just Creepy Bush, multiple times

[Chance Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

Not sure about cosmic rays. Seems to be if you transfer maps (Mish complete). Most pets will transfer with you but Spirit Tree has a habit of doing so and forgetting about the immob effect it gets. So it scuttles off after you. 

 

Weirdly I've never seen the same happen with Acid Mortar or Spectral Terror. Just Creepy Bush, multiple times

could be a difference in pet vs Pseudo pet code

[Vanden]

On 9/8/2021 at 7:56 PM, Arbegla said:

But wouldn't the 200 second recharge offset that some? Isn't proc rate based on recharge, and radius?

 

A power like Triage Beacon would use the proc formula for toggles, which doesn't factor in recharge.

[Doomguide2005]

16 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

A power like Triage Beacon would use the proc formula for toggles, which doesn't factor in recharge.

     I really need to go find a thread where I was, iirc, informed this proc did stupidly good things used in Triage Beacon and Sprit Tree and see how clearly I'm recalling things.

 

Edit:  well so far it's been a fruitless search for the post, but if I'm understanding @Vandenabove it should act closer to Gaussian's in Tactics than your typical AoE proc.

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Doomguide2005