Support characters in CoX Homecoming?

[Mashugana]

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams? It seems like in HC everyone can IO into a monster. So I wonder if buffs and debuffs and lockdowns are useful.

 

Maybe support characters are more useful in non-50 content? So if I wanted to be a pure support maybe i do not take support toons to extreme level 50 content. I dunno.

 

Anyhoo, I love being support and buffing the team.  I just do not want to feel useless 🙂

 

Thanks for any advice.

[SuperPlyx]

Yes, but there is so many variables at play here. Someone much smarter than me will tell you about them.

I know my level 25 Elec Affinity Def is very useful on teams at that level. 

I know my dom is useful for holds and controls at all levels. ( nothing quite like locking down a whole ambush before it even gets to team )

And debuffs are always, always welcome.

[ZorkNemesis]

Absolutely.  Especially in low-mans.  As an example a little while ago I was in a team fighting the Goliath War Walker in Boomtown.  Five of us, no supports or lores, all Brute/Blaster/Scrapper and we were fighting to a stalemate; we couldn't get enough DPS on it to beat it's periodic self-heal.  After a few minutes, I back out and run to get my Thermal Defender and as soon as I drop Melt Armor and Heat Exhaustion on the walker it melts almost immediately, I didn't even pop my own incarnates.  One support role can make a massive difference when a team is lacking.  

[Naraka]

Offensive support (+dmg, -resist, +rech, ect) will be valued higher than defensive support (-dmg, -ToHit, -rech, ect) and utility support (teleport, debuff resistance and control) will mostly end up just being nice to have but not necessary. 

 

They all can be useful or drastically shift a fight but being around better equipped players will emphasize the previous paragraph.

[PeregrineFalcon]

1) Not everyone plays a level 50 character that is up to their gills in set IOs. Support characters can be very useful then, especially if you turn up the difficulty.

 

2) There are a set of missions in the AE, called the 801 series, that is specifically designed to challenge full teams that are up to their gills in set IOs. Support characters can be very useful then, especially if you turn up the difficulty.

 

3) The developers have created a "Challenge Mode" for level 50 content that is far more challenging that normal content and with increased rewards. It's only available in one specific Task Force right now, but they've said they're going to proliferate it to other content. So it will become much more widespread, soon. Support characters can be very useful during this "Challenge Mode", especially if you turn up the difficulty.

 

 

TL;DR: Yes, support characters can be useful. Some more than others, depending on the specific challenge faced.

[biostem]

42 minutes ago, Mashugana said:

So if I wanted to be a pure support

No offense, but this is a huge red flag for me.  You are doing yourself a disservice if you come into this game with the intention of being a "pure" anything.  You can play however you want, but I implore you to expand your outlook on what ATs that have support sets/abilities "should" be contributing to a team...

Edited February 8, 2022 by biostem

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Mashugana said:

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams? It seems like in HC everyone can IO into a monster. So I wonder if buffs and debuffs and lockdowns are useful.

 

Nope. Just crank up a tank and solo everything.

 

/sarcasm off

 

Or was it sarcasm?

 

Debuffs and Buffs are awesome. Run around with a full team of corruptors and slaughter everything.

 

That's not even remotely sarcasm. It's hilarious how a Murderball of Cors can lay waste to anything the game can throw at them.

 

Play what you want. The vast majority don't care what you bring as long as you enjoy it. Which is probably why my SG will be happy when I quit playing my mastermind and kheldians.

[Ironblade]

1 hour ago, Mashugana said:

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams?

Let me answer that indirectly.

 

I've done some task forces (Kahn most recently) where we had all DPS (scrappers, blasters and one squid).  It was a serious slog against the AV.

 

Conversely, I've been on many task forces and iTrials that were recruited as "all defender" and it was EASY.  We did a Dilemma Diabolique with all defenders and no one even went below half hit points the entire run.  A friend of mine used to run all defender Statesman TFs on live - walk in the park.  When we do the Really Hard Way badge runs of the Magisterium, we need to have six or more corruptors.  The combination of buffs/debuffs and scourge makes the difference.

 

One support characters brings a lot to a team.  A team of all support is grossly overpowered.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Support?  You mean like a dark melee/shield scrapper?!?

[arcane]

Yes, but be sure to add something offensive to the table like damage/recharge buffs or regen/res debuffs. Force Field is just a poor man’s sentinel once you join a team full of players that can survive perfectly well on their own. 😕

[UltraAlt]

2 hours ago, Mashugana said:

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams? It seems like in HC everyone can IO into a monster. So I wonder if buffs and debuffs and lockdowns are useful.

 

Yes. They are a force multiplier and team reinforcement. The larger the team, the more impact that they have.

 

How much impact that they actually have is often based on the tactics of the team. The more Bull-in-the-China-Shop AKA "Hulk smash!" aka "Run and gun", the less impact that support characters have on a teams success.

 

Unfortunately, most teams over 50 seem to be using the Bull-in-the-China-Shop AKA "Hulk smash!" aka "Run and gun" tactic based on what little I've actually particpated in level 50 content and attitudes that I see in the forums.

What server you are on and those that are on your team always have direct impact on the style of play that people on your team are using.

Leading a team can have the most impact as you can recruit based on how you want to play and are willing (as the leader) to make leadership decisions to make sure your (you are leading. it is your team) is using the tactics the leader (you as leader) have decided that your team should be using.

[This does not mean you should be a dictator. It does mean that other players should respect that you are the leader. Being disruptive to a team is being just that. Kicking too many players from your teams may get you a reputation.]

 

2 hours ago, Mashugana said:

Anyhoo, I love being support and buffing the team. 

 

Teams of all support characters can be devastating.

The great thing about City of Heroes is that practically any team can work as long as they work together. <--- some would call that teaming up versus soloing as a group.

 

You are going to run into players that think that you have to have a tank on your team, and that you have to follow the tank.

This is not true.

And, just to be clear, that does not mean that you must have a Brute on your team if you don't have a tank on your team, or that you have to have  a scrapper on your team if you don't have a tanker or brute on your team.

You do not need any melee characters on your team in order for your team to succeed.

The great thing about City of Heroes is that practically any team can work as long as they work together. <-- That's reinforcement. It is a kind of support.

 

 

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, Mashugana said:

Are support characters like controllers and defenders impactful on teams? It seems like in HC everyone can IO into a monster.

 

Everyone can. Not everyone does, or wants to, despite how the forums (or Help or general) may sound at times.

 

Then again, I don't care. I just want interesting people with interesting characters to team with that at least try.

[Apparition]

3 hours ago, Naraka said:

Offensive support (+dmg, -resist, +rech, ect) will be valued higher than defensive support (-dmg, -ToHit, -rech, ect) and utility support (teleport, debuff resistance and control) will mostly end up just being nice to have but not necessary. 

 

They all can be useful or drastically shift a fight but being around better equipped players will emphasize the previous paragraph.

 

 

Mostly true, although -dmg is underappreciated IMO.  It's unresistable and can make a big difference.

 

3 hours ago, biostem said:

No offense, but this is a huge red flag for me.  You are doing yourself a disservice if you come into this game with the intention of being a "pure" anything.  You can play however you want, but I implore you to expand your outlook on what ATs that have support sets/abilities "should" be contributing to a team...

 

 

Definitely this.  Every time I see a level 50 Defender with only their tier one secondary power, I want to cry.  Or at the very least shake my head vigorously.

[Omega Force]

3 hours ago, biostem said:

No offense, but this is a huge red flag for me.  You are doing yourself a disservice if you come into this game with the intention of being a "pure" anything.  You can play however you want, but I implore you to expand your outlook on what ATs that have support sets/abilities "should" be contributing to a team...

Yes.  In City of Heroes forum-speak, "pure support" (or "a healer") too often translates into "I want the team to carry me."  If you refuse to fight directly, play a mastermind with all three pets, so at least the AI will chip in to accomplish something.

[MTeague]

It depends what you mean by "are they impactful?".

 

For the vast majority of content, Nobody is necessary to a team. Not the controller, not the defender, not the tank, not even the blaster. 

And nobody should be necessary to a team. 

 

Now, are many players focused on kill speed? Yes. Do some contribute more directly to that in more observable ways? Yes.

 

There are entire sections of content (lvl 45+ Radio Missions, a few task forces) where I generally don't join on my controller, because i don't want to feel like a 5th wheel, or be like "woo, I helped!!" by casting a few immobilizes right before everything got nuked.  But there's also quite a bit of content where it can be verrrry handy to have a controller on the team. Particularly in the Wards and any other Going-Rogue-And-Later content. 

[Marshal_General]

Very few ATs can have every resist maxed and few players of those ATs will have them maxed. They however will have little to no def resist and what defenses they do have will fold easily so more defense buffs will help them.

 

In reverse, the defense sets will not have maxed resists and may not have full DDR. They can be taken out by auto cheese hits so extra resist buffs will help.

 

For anti mob support, a lot of AVs and GMs will head for the hills as soon as someone drops a defuff on them, so stacks of immobilizes on them help. Enough control will work on AVs and GMs.

 

Though easily used on the move support is generally better in this modern day "We need to be done with the mission before we have fully loaded in mentality."

[Maestro Mavius]

Yes but also no. 

 

As a support character you'll have to be more picky with the teams you run with as fact is, most simply won't need you, or even give you a chance to fire off a power before rushing to the next spawn. It's not always the same reasons either. Yesterday I got on a team of level 30's and nobody had any IO sets but we had 4 blasters with nukes that could easily juggle and fire off a nuke every spawn. My holds were useless and since everything was melting in seconds, my fire shields weren't needed either. I'm an altoholic though so I just switched to one of my blasters and joined the nuke party. 

 

That said, you will still find plenty of times when your support is not only needed, it's the reason your team survives. I've found that mission teams in the 30 to 40's range specifically benefit the most from my support toons. Anything that can be done with speed for merits will attract the racers but things designed more for XP seem to lean towards traditional trinity style gameplay. That means TF's usually won't need support but radio teams (non PI) will. 

 

Fact is, the times your support won't be needed... you'll realize nothing else would be either. If 1 or 2 on the team are clearing every spawn by themselves, then even switching to a DPS toon wouldn't matter as you'd just be constantly running after the ones melting everything anyways. 

 

I made a similar thread a few weeks back wondering if another server would be better suited to my slower style of playing but after trying them all I've found this pattern persists across the board. Once you figure out what kind of teams to look for as a support AT, you'll find that plenty not only need support, they live or die based off it.  

[Shred Monkey]

In this game, you can build for:

 

1. Survival

2. Damage

3. Control

4. Debuffs

5. Buffs & Heals 

 

Generally speaking to complete tasks in this game, you only need to pick any 2 of these.  Which means there's almost always something extraneous on every team. This is especially true for the endgame.  Many people focus on building a strategic amount of #1, and then focus on #2 or #4 because those two can speed up mission completion regardless of who else is on the team.

 

There's ATs and sets in this game that can do wonderful amounts of #3 and #5.  I don't want to tell people it's wrong to play those toons.  However, if I were to play one, I'd freeze my xp somewhere around level 25-35 and just use that toon to enjoy that part of the game.

 

[Ukase]

The problem with this question is the answers are going to be different for just about anyone you ask. 

There are a few common threads, though. 
 

Don't worry about your impact. Play what you will enjoy playing. 
The beauty of CoH has always been about the ability to change your character; that is, to log off one character and begin to play another. It can be catching. They call it alt-itis, as if it were some sort of disease to be cured, but that's not the case. We have 1000 slots in this flavor of CoH. Make several versions of the same character if you wish, and as you train, perhaps choose different powers, or slot them differently. Whatever floats your figurative boat. 

It can be said that there are a collection of players whose characters can simply stand in the middle of npcs and withstand whatever aggro they dish out without fear of defeat. Some of these players cannot dish out enough damage to defeat the npcs, though. Some can. 
Some blasters can simply nuke them, kill them all in a couple of seconds - IF they don't get stunned or mezzed and die quickly. Some can mitigate the mez more easily and still nuke them quickly. 
All of these players can do what they do, with or without you. Might as well be with you. I've only seen ONE jerk in this game who is specific about which AT/Powerset combo they'll accept onto their teams. And often, this same jerk literally quits mid-task force/trial, if there are players who do not read his mind and do what he wants them to do. He knows what to do, I think. But he doesn't relay his expectations to the team. As a result, half the team has no clue what to do on some occasions, and they fail. So, you wouldn't want to team with this guy, or guys like him anyway. 

Nobody's going to complain about the buffs/heals you give. 90% of us are too focused on the task at hand to even notice any other player. We may notice if you are lagging behind. We may notice if you go on your own path. But if you're with the majority, nobody will notice that you're not attacking, but just buffing/debuffing/healing. That said, if nobody needs to be healed, and the buffs haven't worn off, it would be proper to have an attack chain ready to use, and to use them. 

[Snarky]

I run Brutes.  I run Blasters.  I have a ice/cold Corruptor that is pure damage and debuff.  The debuff plays a very significant role in why that toon is powerful.  

 

On hard content like incarnate trials facing hard targets that need a quick burn (Tyrant in Magisterium really hard way etc) a LOT of damage dealers are very welcome.  But you need support.  If you look at the WoW Dungeon teams, 3 DPS 1 Healer, 1 Tank and expand it out.... Optimal would be about the same ratio, 3 DPS to one mostly support.  Tankage varies.  1 is almost always needed.  sometimes 2.  total.  The rest is 75% damage 25% support,  in my opinion

 

Support is very needed and necessary.  The unavoidable damage patches etc is vicious.  Incarnate heals and buffs do a lot of the lifting....but not all.  Debuffs are, again, very important on a lot of hard content.

[Without_Pause]

I do think there is a genuine issue with the "need" of controls on some end game teams as mobs can be taken out in such quick fashion that those controls can feel wasted. In that case though, a number of things aren't needed. If a build can solo +4/x8, then teammates are just making the task quicker. If one goes control/support heavy, then yes, playing on a number of high end teams can make you feel like a 9th wheel.

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Without_Pause said:

I do think there is a genuine issue with the "need" of controls on some end game teams as mobs can be taken out in such quick fashion that those controls can feel wasted. In that case though, a number of things aren't needed. If a build can solo +4/x8, then teammates are just making the task quicker. If one goes control/support heavy, then yes, playing on a number of high end teams can make you feel like a 9th wheel.

This brings up a good place to differentiate the “support”.  Control, for the reason stated above is superfluous many times.  But debuffs? -res -regen -health etc?   From what I gather this is what can really crush those hard targets.  

[Outrider_01]

Pick a set, make your own build.  My Grav/Psi dominator is just a blaster with ranged attacks using propel + hold and a cheap perma domination build.  My other dominators are built as DPS more so than holds, no pets and some procs, such as fear power with 2 damage procs.  My poison Ice corrupter, damage procs in its debuffs...not huge but its passive in a way.  

 

for example take the single target holds, you can get about 4 damage procs in it.  Dont slot for hold, just pretend its a ranged attack.

[Without_Pause]

18 minutes ago, Snarky said:

This brings up a good place to differentiate the “support”.  Control, for the reason stated above is superfluous many times.  But debuffs? -res -regen -health etc?   From what I gather this is what can really crush those hard targets.  

You want buffs and debuffs. Controls are great when mitigation is lacking. Sappers and various other annoying things are still very much a thing for end game. If the mitigation is there, again, buffs and debuffs are welcomed.

[cranebump]

You can always run a support toon with us: