Devs, please explain why you are nerfing one of the most popular activities on Homecoming

[Neiska]

3 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

 

You illustrated your point with your own reply.   You're so convinced that there's Rampant Toxicity Against Farmers, that you've completely discounted Toxicity From Farmers as, you know, another significant source of toxicity in the community.

 

Empath, Heal Thyself.

 

I never said farmers. But if you think I am alone, you are woefully mistaken. These forums are hardly the entirety of the conversation as well as the community. I do respect you MistressOhm, truely, but I am afraid you are only seeing half of the issue, what is here present and in the open. The other half? Well, let's just say they don't feel welcome or open to even have a conversation. And its them who I largely refer to. And I never stated Farmers weren't or couldn't be toxic as well, but it isn't the farmers who are clamoring to change other people's gameplay either, or tripping over each other to respond to any post suggesting that there is.

[Widower]

Ah, here we go again. All I'm going to say is that the best solution to toxicity oft lies in oneself.

[PeregrineFalcon]

7 minutes ago, arcane said:

I think you ought to go back to the drawing board and ask yourself if you reeeally believe the uptick in hostility here is a one-sided problem. 

I don't believe that the uptick in hostility is a one-sided problem, which is why I didn't say that it was.

 

I think the hostility is coming in from all sides. I also think that the mods acting on one specific form of hostility while allowing other forms to slide to the point to where perfectly reasonable people are driven away from Homecoming completely, just might end up coming back to bite folks at some point in the future.

 

Not that I'm claiming that @Bill Z Bubba is perfectly reasonable mind you, but people in general.  😁

[Bill Z Bubba]

8 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

 

You illustrated your point with your own reply.   You're so convinced that there's Rampant Toxicity Against Farmers, that you've completely discounted Toxicity From Farmers as, you know, another significant source of toxicity in the community.

 

Empath, Heal Thyself.

 

Guess I'm back. Have to argue. It's not a rampant toxicity against farmers... it's just a rampant toxicity from a specific segment of the forum goers toward everyone else.

[Sif]

3 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

If I was a farmer I'd be a little embarrassed at seeing a thread like this.  If they suddenly made converters somehow cost twice as much (the market is how I prefer to "farm" myself), I'd shrug my shoulders and go "okay, whatever".

It was at this point reading through the thread that I remembered I was afk-farming. The only change I made for Page5 was switching to a new arc ID. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I spend >95% of my time on Homecoming farming, so I'm definitely a "farmer", and I enjoy it. I enjoy farming (afk and not), I like being able to zone out, I like being able to trivially multitask, I like being able to just walk away and not even think about pausing. The in-game rewards, I can't really say are a motivator for me (except the ding sound, it's somehow so satisfying). They're so much that I've gotten progressively lazier, like only listing items on the AH for 1 inf (ones that I don't just vendor because lazy).

 

After reading this thread, I'm not sure if there has been any changes to farmers that aren't focused on maximizing rewards. For the ones that are, what is the impact? I might've missed it in this thread, but I've not seen numbers to get an idea of the impact to in-game rewards.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Sif

[arcane]

5 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I also think that the mods acting on one specific form of hostility while allowing other forms to slide. 

You may be referring to something else, but, if you’re referring to this narrative going around that only people with certain viewpoints or opposing certain changes are getting dinged by the mods, I can promise you that’s a false narrative. 

[Snarky]

30 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

I dont care THAT much. To me, it isnt about being right or wrong, it’s about the fact that people here have become horrible. Just truly horrible.

You are wrong.  I did not ‘become’ anything.  I been bad since i busted out of the Zig.  I still run the “kidnap citizens for Live Vahzilok dissection” for laughs.  
 

By the way, how does it feel to be WRONG????

[Seed22]

1 minute ago, Snarky said:

You are wrong.  I did not ‘become’ anything.  I been bad since i busted out of the Zig.  I still run the “kidnap citizens for Live Vahzilok dissection” for laughs.  
 

By the way, how does it feel to be WRONG????

You’ve got me there, Snark. 

[Sir Myshkin]

I thought it was obvious that the best way around these changes was to just start Ice Farming instead? I mean, who like Fire anyway? It’s hot, and burns, and gets ash everywhere.

[MistressOhm]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

 

I never said farmers. But if you think I am alone, you are woefully mistaken. These forums are hardly the entirety of the conversation as well as the community. I do respect you MistressOhm, truely, but I am afraid you are only seeing half of the issue, what is here present and in the open. The other half? Well, let's just say they don't feel welcome or open to even have a conversation. And its them who I largely refer to. And I never stated Farmers weren't or couldn't be toxic as well, but it isn't the farmers who are clamoring to change other people's gameplay either, or tripping over each other to respond to any post suggesting that there is.

 

I don't think you're alone.  To the contrary, this seems to be quite the vocal portion of the population, altho' I sincerely doubt they have majority status in player numbers.  But then again, that's how things get noticed in this day and age.  The ones who shout the loudest get addressed, even if the point being shouted about is at the very fringes.  Meanwhile, the majority just go along to get along, they keep their heads down, as you pointed out.  

 

I just think that the overarching message we ARE seeing from the AFK/Farm/PL groups, is that IF by some mechanic they were all chased off to greener pastures, that Homecoming would collapse into a black hole and vanish.  That somehow THEY are the ones keeping this game going, and they state in the same breath that the Devs are 'against them' and that 'there's some conspiracy to neuter them'.  Considering all of the ways people enjoy this game, I think that's the height (or the depths) of hubris.  

 

ONE powerset gets adjusted, and it's a conspiracy?  Well gee, if that particular powerset was the PL flavor of the month, and someone noticed it was out of balance and corrected it, it's not a targeted attack, it's exactly what it says on the tin, an adjustment.  The fact that it WAS out of balance in the first place is of course the reason people flocked to it as a farm build... because out of all of the powersets in the game, that one had a hole that you could drive a truck through.  Fix that hole, and "OMG FIRE FARMS NERFED!" and out come the pitchforks and torches.  

 

It's not that they're clamoring to change other's gameplay, it's that they're saying Listen To Us Or Your Game Goes Away.   And I for one really don't like it when not just my gameplay but my entire gaming experience is being held hostage by someone else, regardless of their reasons.  I don't want the HC staff to shut farming down, that's a perfectly valid mode of play if you enjoy it.  But I'll not be sympathetic to someone stomping their feet and throwing a tantrum because their favorite exploit got closed.  And yes, I used the word "Exploit" on purpose.  

[PeregrineFalcon]

8 minutes ago, arcane said:

I can promise you that’s a false narrative. 

You're forgetting who you're talking to, Arcane. I'm literally the person who started that narrative on these forums.

 

And I did it because it was based on my observations. And other people agree because they've observed the same thing. You can promise me anything you want, but understand that I've come to my conclusion based on facts in evidence, not your opinion.

[Neiska]

1 minute ago, MistressOhm said:

And I for one really don't like it when not just my gameplay but my entire gaming experience is being held hostage by someone else, regardless of their reasons. 

 

But this is precisely how one side feels. And when they voiced their concerns, they are mocked, insulted, ridiculed, or put into the "they don't matter" box. But I do find your highlight of the word "exploit" to be a bit in poor form, since not everyone is going to agree or disagree what an exploit is, or what is even "permitted." What is okay for one player, isn't okay for another. Which I suspect is the crux of the matter.

 

And I have yet to see any single post to the tune of "change farms back or else" or "fix it or we will leave in droves" as exaggerated by other persons present. If anything, any such concerns will no longer be voiced in the future, largely in part due to the lack of address to those who were against it, as well as comments from the anti-farm crowd who tend to voice their opinions as if it was rules, policies, or set in stone. And most certainly, from one side of the fence it feels as if some things are stamped out, and others are permitted to slide, even silently encouraged even.

 

To summarize, regardless of the issue being discussed, the manner in which both the staff as well as some parts of the forums have responded to the posts made by some, have made it seem as if the originators of such either don't matter or simply are ignored or aren't heard. But even worse, others seem to garnish enjoyment from it in a twisted form of schadenfreude.

 

Personally, I am inclined to engage even in conversation less and less myself. As anytime I do its pretty much wasted effort anyway, so why bother?

[arcane]

3 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

You're forgetting who you're talking to, Arcane. I'm literally the person who started that narrative on these forums.

 

And I did it because it was based on my observations. And other people agree because they've observed the same thing. You can promise me anything you want, but understand that I've come to my conclusion based on facts in evidence, not your opinion.

And I’ve come to my conclusion based on facts as well. Like the facts that I am routinely called a “cheerleader” here and simultaneously routinely given infractions by the moderation. Your theory doesn’t add up.

[MoonSheep]

1 minute ago, arcane said:

 Like the facts that I am routinely called a “cheerleader” here and simultaneously routinely given infractions by the moderation.

 

clearly not cheerleading well enough mate, your form is appalling 

[Coyotedancer]

Heh. I suspect that most of us realize full well at this point just how unwelcomed a presence we are. It's not like the Anti-farming League have been at all shy about their opinions.

[shatterpoint]

*bickerbickerbicker*

The game has changed.

It is what it is.

They'll clearly change it as they see fit.

 

Leave or stay. Throwing insults or belittling each other isn't going to solve anything except make the divide wider.

We are not entitled to anything here. They can just pull the plug JUST because the community has gotten too volatile for it to be worth the effort of running it.

 

[MistressOhm]

Why would the usage of "exploit" be in poor form?

 

It's taking advantage of a weakness in a specific powerset, specifically building both targets AND protagonists so that risk is minimized and rewards are maximized.  

 

The fact that "Fire Farm" is indeed a thing is indicative that the exploit exists.  "Max your Fire resistance and none of the mobs on this map can hurt you."  That's the entire mechanic.  

 

How is this not an exploit?

 

 

[Neiska]

3 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

How is this not an exploit?

 

I would call it use of common game knowledge. I mean, if that's the qualifiers for what counts for an exploit, then you might as well call every tanker who res caps all resists an exploiter as well. If anything, that would be more egregious would it not?

[Coyotedancer]

6 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

Why would the usage of "exploit" be in poor form?

 

It's taking advantage of a weakness in a specific powerset, specifically building both targets AND protagonists so that risk is minimized and rewards are maximized.  

 

The fact that "Fire Farm" is indeed a thing is indicative that the exploit exists.  "Max your Fire resistance and none of the mobs on this map can hurt you."  That's the entire mechanic.  

 

How is this not an exploit?

 

 

 

 

Perfectly fine when min/max types do similar tuning outside of AE to trivialize the majority of the game, though. That's just "playing the game as intended", right? 😜

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Guess I'm back.

Hope the new job is going well dood.

[MistressOhm]

9 minutes ago, Neiska said:

 

I would call it use of common game knowledge. I mean, if that's the qualifiers for what counts for an exploit, then you might as well call every tanker who res caps all resists an exploiter as well. If anything, that would be more egregious would it not?

 

A tanker capping resistances to everything they can is a tanker build.  A tanker capping resistance to one specific damage type and then only playing against that damage type is what I was referring to. 

[Snarky]

55 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Guess I'm back. Have to argue. It's not a rampant toxicity against farmers... it's just a rampant toxicity from a specific segment of the forum goers toward everyone else.

Just when I thought I was out!  They pulled me back in!

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=73d40337200842adJmltdHM9MTY2NjIyNDAwMCZpZ3VpZD0xMDhjODY1Mi01NjkwLTY4YjItMGEzZC04OGNlNTc0YzY5NzUmaW5zaWQ9NTQ4NA&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=108c8652-5690-68b2-0a3d-88ce574c6975&u=a1L3ZpZGVvcy9zZWFyY2g_cT1qdXN0K3doZW4raSt0aG91Z2h0K2krd2FzK291dCZ2aWV3PWRldGFpbCZtaWQ9NkY1OTc3NDRDNDdDRDg2NzNEQjI2RjU5Nzc0NEM0N0NEODY3M0RCMiZGT1JNPVZJUkU&ntb=1

 

Edited October 20, 2022 by Snarky

[kelika2]

18 minutes ago, MistressOhm said:

The fact that "Fire Farm" is indeed a thing is indicative that the exploit exists.  "Max your Fire resistance and none of the mobs on this map can hurt you."  That's the entire mechanic.  

How is this not an exploit?

whats the difference between that and slotting for 45% def to all and skipping to objectives in tfs/trials to get merits quicker?

and a tray full of insps

and incarnate stuff

[Galactron]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

 

For some people it has already reached that point. And for those that it has, they don't post or play anymore. But I doubt the empathy or even interest from some present. In fact, I expect some to be happy about it.

Except for the people who "stopped playing" and go as far as changing their sig to let everyone know "they're out of here" yet still post here constantly?  Those people?  I have a hard time believing *anyone* really quits.

[Luminara]

3 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

It's not like the Anti-farming League have been at all shy about their opinions.

 

There is no anti-farming league.  It's not about farming.  It never has been.  The only people who believe it is are the ones who refuse to accept that anything can or does happen that doesn't directly and maliciously target farming.  What there is is a rejection of the "This is my game and you have to satisfy me, fuck everyone else" attitude that those people portray.

If the people espousing that mentality were as mature as you are, we wouldn't have threads like this.