Officially Unofficial Weekly Discussion #8: Pets

[SeraphimKensai]

This week's discussion deals with Pets, particularly ones that have an effect on combat.

 

What is/are your favorite pets to use in the game? Why? Are there any you don't like? Why? If the pet is available to multiple ATs do you prefer it better on one AT over the other?

When rolling an AT that is traditionally known for there pets, have you purposely chose not to take a or the pet(s) available to you? How did it work out?

 

What about incarnate lore pets? Which of those do you find yourself picking and why? Are there any you haven't tried at this point?

 

Lastly what are your thoughts on level shifts for pets, especially masterminds' pets?

[DougGraves]

I generally hate having pets.  Unless playing a MM.

 

I don't feel like pets are part of my character.  They fee like just a thing that randomly does damage.  So I get annoyed that control sets have pets and we can't take an alternate power instead.

 

The only pets I like are the phantom army when players do creative things with their appearance.

 

and I would remove all level shifts.  They were fine when +4 was not standard.  But the penalty with being an extra level down makes them so weak.

[Xiddo]

I don't play MMs but I completely see how the level shift should be applied to their pets also. Mostly so MMs can spend less time resummoning and more time buffing the team 😉 

My first ever 50 was a Fire/Storm controller. Pre-ED the ✨JOY✨ I had with my little imp army... Their weaknesses didn't matter so much cos 12-15 was a wave of fire. I feel like since we can no longer have multiple pets, summons (on controllers/doms at least) have needed a little survivability buff. They used to be protected by others, now they're exposed. I guess the argument is that we are controlling them away from attacking the summons.

I used to love the Fly Trap on my plant dom/trollers but haven't picked it up in ages. The design is amazing but it just felt so weak and slow.
I don't have one - just because I haven't found a grav toon that clicked for me - but I love the new Singularity. Whoever redesigned that is a genius. I wish more things had that type of draw power (my biased request would be for the Kheldian lobster form, as thematically they have heavy gravity ❤️). The buff really made The Family a group to be scared of, and not just another "blokes with guns" mob.
Love the little WS fluffies. I was dubious about them but now can really tell when they're up. I've dropped the Photon Seekers on my PB as I just... didn't see the point. They need something else. Maybe a similar power to the Ghouls' Death and Glory - where it heals the allies around them - or something. "Light bringer self sacrifice" type thing.

Side note: enemy pets - like the Legacy Chain's PooPet - always seem to be tougher and hit harder than player pets. But maybe that's just me.

Also, big thanks to @SeraphimKensai for doing these. I always think "what more is there for us to chat about?!" and then you pull it out of the bag with another topic.

[UltraAlt]

4 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What is/are your favorite pets to use in the game?

 

I can only say that my favorite pets are the pets on a character that I'm playing at the time (if they even have pets).

 

4 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Why?

 

Because if I have a character with pets, I'm going to try to power them up so that they will be useful to me when I'm in combat ... and I'm not in combat if I'm not playing the character.

 

 

4 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Are there any you don't like? Why?

 

Demons make too much noise.

 

4 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

If the pet is available to multiple ATs do you prefer it better on one AT over the other?

 

not really.

 

4 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

When rolling an AT that is traditionally known for there pets, have you purposely chose not to take a or the pet(s) available to you? How did it work out?

 

Yes. Demon Masterminds and a Beast Mastermind.

I built a Beast Mastermind, but I only wanted the bird powers. It was later pointed out to me that I could make a dominator(?) with the bird powers. After I made the dominator (?), I went back and started getting the pets on the beast mastermind character as it leveled.

I've made multiple Demon Masterminds solely to get the whip attacks. This may not be functional in the end-game, but, as long as I'm on a team, they work fine up into the 30's at least. I have to say Demon/Electric petless mastermind is a lot of fun.

 

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What about incarnate lore pets? Which of those do you find yourself picking and why? Are there any you haven't tried at this point?

 

I try to avoid the endgame.

 

5 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Lastly what are your thoughts on level shifts for pets, especially masterminds' pets?

 

I'm not sure where you are going on this one.

Are you talking about what level that the pets should be unlocked?

 

I'm fine with the way that the system is setup now, and I don't think a change is necessary.

I would like cosmetically customizable Mastermind pets though.

[Snarky]

I do not like pets.  Players do not have design control over them.  Therefore any AT that has pet X already has a specific element added to the costume that there is no way to change. 

 

"I'm a space pirate!"  

"Uh, why is there a black shadowy dog following you?"

"Been trying to figure that out meself.  Arrrrrr!"

 

Lore Pets.  Banished Pantheon.  If I have to tell you why I apologize.  Not going to.

Kind of hate them.  They go with nothing.

 

Then any pets that are "fire and forget" like Banished Pantheon or Dominator pets have to be calculated out for when to use, when to save, etc.  Any pets that are in your full control really control you in how you move through missions.  Like walking a pack of dogs through the mall.  Every fifteen feet is a new adventure.

 

[Uun]

11 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Lastly what are your thoughts on level shifts for pets, especially masterminds' pets?

Mastermind pets are already level shifted for Incarnate content. "Supremacy grants +2 Incarnate Shifts to Minion Henchmen and +1 Incarnate Shift to Lieutenant Henchmen which can be stacked with other Incarnate Abilities which grant Incarnate Shifts." In other words, for Incarnate content all the MM pets are at the player's level. What needs to be fixed is the summon level for all other content. There is no reason for minion pets to be summoned at -2 and lieutenant pets to be summoned at -1. Everything should be summoned at the player's level.

 

Fire Imps should also be summoned at the player's level, not -1.

[Uun]

11 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What about incarnate lore pets? Which of those do you find yourself picking and why? Are there any you haven't tried at this point?

I've got 28 incarnates. I've used Banished Pantheon, Carnival, Knives, Storm and Talons multiple times and most of the others at least once. The only ones I haven't tried are Demons, Nemesis, Rikti and Seers, largely because they don't fit the character concept.

[Six-Six]

I like pets.

A few things that I wouldn't mind are:
1) the Force Field Generator pet from Traps. I wish it could be pass through like the MM pets are now. Sometimes I get trapped in a room because of it.
2) MM-level control --or at least some form of control-- for Patron Pool pets and Soldiers of Arachnos pets. Not sure how implementing that would impact the game, but since Crabberminds are quite popular, it would be a solid upgrade if those dang 'lings and blasters wouldn't go off doing their own thing.
3) I'd like to make a request for a dedicated "pet fly" button. I took group fly for my own benefit and fighting style only to be ordered to turn it off because some other bloke didn't visit the bird to have his option decline it. With such a button, my pets can still fly with me while the other team members can get their feet dirty.
4) customisable pets. or at least variable set looks (skins???) if full customisation is too hard to implement.

Additionally, since page 5 and the upgrade of the MM personal attacks, I've re-rolled a few of my petless MMs. my last try stalled at 20+ since attacks were too feeble.
 

[MTeague]

13 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What about incarnate lore pets? Which of those do you find yourself picking and why?

• They have to fit my characters concept and look "right" for them, otherwise, I just don't use them at all.  
• My Mind/Kin controller uses Polar Lights, since they seem to fit a magic based character, and look not unlike some of the wisp type things in Croatoa.
• My Claws/SR scrapper simply doesn't use any Lore pet. At all. Period. And Never Will. Because none fit my concept for that character, and they DON'T work with Longbow or Arachnos or any other group.  For that character, I choose to leave that tab on the table, unclaimed and unused.  Any team that doesn't want me to bring that character for that reason, is free to kick me. I won't look back.

13 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What is/are your favorite pets to use in the game?

• Carrion Creepers.  No, they're not a traditional "pet" as such. But the forest of vines going nuts in a spawn of mobs is perfect for my Plant dominators concept.

[momentarygrace]

I solo a lot and pets can be helpful. On live I usually started trying to get shivans as early as possible for my melee toons who needed help with av fights.

 

I have one plant dom and I love my Flytrap. She's loyal and pretty. Her name is Venus. I loved it when I figured out you could rename pets. 🙂

 

My first and ever incarnate chose Rularuu for Lore because giant chomping eyeball. Period. His name is Ivan. Never looking back. 😄

 

MMs - I thought I would love Beast Mastery but it turns out I hate when my wolves and lionesses get killed! Or even hurt! And I'm not the only one, since I learned there's a mod to silence wolves whimpering.... On the other hand I didn't expect to like Necro but I rolled one up for a Halloween themed toon and I love her! Turns out I don't care if her zombies die... they're dead already! Ha ha ha! Also Necro MM plus Sorcery equals flaming zombies and using flaming zombies to kill "evil" zombies (Vaz,Banished) is so much fun.

 

Have avoided Demons, other people's are too noisy, having them would drive me crazy. No shade to those who love them!

 

 I tend to have a lot of melee toons and it's definitely a shift in playstyle, more thought and planning to incorporate pet use or switch to an MM, not always up for it. But when I'm in the mood, it's going to be concept that wins over logic for me. 

[Carnifax]

I love pets. Always have, will generally try a pet build whatever game i'm playing.

 

14 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

What is/are your favorite pets to use in the game? Why?

Phantom Army, the why is probably self explanatory. PAs are your "tank too slow. We go now". Singy is also amazing.

 

14 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Are there any you don't like? Why?

Gremlins because they're awful. Just terrible bless them. Demon's and Bots because theyre so big and noisy.

 

Edit : And Barkley. The Chihuahua trapped in the body of a hellhound.

 

14 hours ago, SeraphimKensai said:

Lastly what are your thoughts on level shifts for pets, especially masterminds' pets?

I'm guessing we're talking about -1 / -2 rather than incarnates? Hate them. Bad bandaid because the purple patch isn't linear. Just balance the pet damage as a same level pet if you must but dump these, especially for masterminds.

 

I also adore the oddity pet power which Warshades get. The only thing I'd change is the ai to make them act more like Singy rather than Fire imps / gremlins. Way too fond of getting in close considering their frailty and lack of any melee power whatsoever.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Carnifax

[serxiom]

My favorite pet is Animated Stone. When this pet got buffs from healing/resist secondary you have your own personal tank. Patron Pets as Fortunata and Mu Pet are great help if you are not a dps archetype. Besides Mu Pet is healer for you and your other pets. Very handy.

 

Regarding Lore pets in some of my charcaters must fit the theme. I like Ring Mistress from Carnivals. It does a significant amount of damage is fast and stays usually safe in range. I hate Banished and the big red robot for heroes... those are an obstacle for my screen view. I would strongly advice to reduce their size.

 

As a special mention the doggie pet from Dark Assault/Control is maybe the most effective pet in game. Is a perfect mix of dps/debuff. 

[roleki]

Jack Frost has grown on me over the years; used to be he would freak out at the sight of a burning Oil Slick, but now he's been  re-coded to actually hang around and take swings at things, I have come to appreciate his "Alright, who else wants an ass-beating?" ethos. 

 

I will forever mourn Singularity 2.0 (the version that was prevalent for most of Live).  I suppose the 'black hole' effect on the HC version is kind of cool, but I would trade that in a heartbeat for the old-school impervious, inscrutable Singularity that would survive pretty much anything but the defeat of its summoner.  An injured Singularity used to MEAN something -  you knew you were in the deep stuff if your Singularity was getting nicked.  Now it just means you missed a minion somewhere.  Sad.

 

As for pets I don't like... Fly Trap. The only occasion it ever arrives in time to actually contribute to the defeat of a mob, is if you summon it in the middle of the mob you're fighting.  Otherwise, it's only good as an indicator of how far you've traveled since you summoned it.  Fly Trap, you've got more legs than any other pet, how are you so fucking slow?

[DoctorHugh]

I like pets, in general. When soloing, they give somewhat of a feeling you're not alone out there.

When the press of combat isn't excessive, they give you something to do.

When you faceplant ridiculously, they give you something to blame it on (and curse at!).

Without hurting anyone's feelings.

 

Combat-wise, they may sometimes offer strategies or styles you wouldn't have another way.

In practical terms, if they aren't at least as effective for the number of powers and slots they take as comparable ATs, then I have a hard time justifying them.

 

I mean, I like pets, but I'm not going to gimp myself just to have them. It's fine if they're not as fast or efficient though, since with pets I'm prepared for (sometimes even looking for) a little randomness, chaos and unanticipated mayhem.

 

What don't I like about pets?

Intrusive noise, graphics effects, or unwieldy size that interferes with game play. It's one thing to emit a screechy howl when triggering a big attack in combat - it's another thing entirely to emit a screech every 90 seconds regardless of context. As for graphics, I may enjoy pets, but my character is still the star of the show and I still want to see the battle.

 

Truly broken pet AI, like going nuts around a fire, caltrops or a door. Or charging 50% farther than my farthest range to aggro mobs (without being directed to do so).

 

As long as the pets are well-rendered, I don't generally feel a need to customize them. But customization options or even being able to select between 2-4 different "looks" is nice.

[Ukase]

Of all the pets, I prefer the Singularity. But not by much. 

Pets in this game are like pets in real life. They are the ones that are in charge. Those dogs are really smart, getting these idiot pet lovers to pick up their crap in a sandwich baggy for disposal later. I would never do this, and as much I would enjoy a dog, this is the reason I will never own one. Just ridiculous to even consider the idea. And they're not cheap...but I digress. 

When you use a pet, you rely on the pet to do certain things - whether it's grab some aggro, or dish out some damage, or provide a buff of some kind. The problem is - they are not reliable. They die, often before they even do anything. 

The Phantom Army, arguably the most durable of pets, until you face Hamidon or a Crystal Titan, are only around for a literal minute. And even with "perma-pa", there's a gap in time when they're not there. A second or three. Bad things can happen in certain circumstances. 

Lore Pets - the only thing they are good for is a bit of extra damage. But, they often bounce around like popping popcorn and are mostly useless. About the only time I use mine are during the RHW trial, and when soloing a GM. Other than that, they don't really serve much purpose. 

MM pets - they really are all just trash. Even the strongest one is weak and feeble, at least compared to the Summons pets from p2w. Sure you can direct them, but they just aren't as effective as a blaster. 

You want to play an MM but don't want to use all those damned macros? Just recruit for any given TF and bring some blasters. It's the same thing, except you don't have bodyguard mode, but there's a case to be made that you're safer because everything is defeated that much quicker. 

[Black Zot]

Pet level shifts were a stupid idea that should never have been implemented.  They cannot possibly be removed soon enough.

[Troo]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:12 AM, Uun said:

There is no reason for minion pets to be summoned at -2 and lieutenant pets to be summoned at -1. Everything should be summoned at the player's level.

 

The reason is in the names, is it not? Minions and Lieutenants should not be as strong as Players, should they?

 

Could the implementation have been better or more elegant, sure.

 

On 12/13/2022 at 8:18 PM, SeraphimKensai said:

Are there any you don't like?

 

If Phantom Army are short lived they should immediately be respawnable if character has the endurance. Just saying.

Pets that are easily defeated with recharges that exceed reasonable life expectancy or durations which are eclipsed by recharges... Waiting to recast regular pets can suck.

 

 

[Nyghtmaire]

3 hours ago, Ukase said:

You want to play an MM but don't want to use all those damned macros? Just recruit for any given TF and bring some blasters. It's the same thing, except you don't have bodyguard mode, but there's a case to be made that you're safer because everything is defeated that much quicker. 

Would play this version in a heartbeat. And would get me to take Detonator …

[Uun]

8 hours ago, Troo said:

The reason is in the names, is it not? Minions and Lieutenants should not be as strong as Players, should they?

When you fight, are the opposing faction minions and lieutenants below your level? No. They are typically at your level (or higher). At even con, they are still weaker than players. Relative strength is a separate construct than relative level. I would have no issue reducing the damage of MM pet attacks to compensate if the pets were spawned at player level. 

[kelika2]

All pets but Ninja/Beast are too slow.  Left behind or just arriving for stragglers a lot.

Fire Imps need another minor attack.  I dont care if its called Mini Minor Brawl with a 2.5s cooldown.  Once you find out their one attack is on a 4 sec dooldown they start slowing down before your eyes

 

[blue4333]

I think powersets with Pets in them outside of the Mastermind AT, should get the Pet Commands that Masterminds get, barring bodyguard mode. To me, it will be a huge QOL upgrade having exact control over your pets.

 

Right now, Controllers/Dominators' Pets aggro enemies only when they are in melee range. It's very annoying to dive into melee range for pets to attack enemies or to resummon them right for every new enemy spawn.

 

And a baseline run/flight speed increase across all pets would help a lot!

[Herotu]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:18 PM, Uun said:

I've got 28 incarnates. I've used Banished Pantheon, Carnival, Knives, Storm and Talons multiple times and most of the others at least once. The only ones I haven't tried are Demons, Nemesis, Rikti and Seers, largely because they don't fit the character concept.

If they don't fit your character concept, then your character concept doesn't fit with the game's story.

[WumpusRat]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:34 AM, Snarky said:

"I'm a space pirate!"  

"Uh, why is there a black shadowy dog following you?"

"Been trying to figure that out meself.  Arrrrrr!"

"Aye, lad, that's a tale. Me crew and I were stalking a merchant vessel out near the Pollax Cluster, a fine and fat ship she was, loaded with goods on their way to Cygnus Seven! When they saw us coming, they tried to flee, the scurvy rats, and led us on quite a merry chase. We were about to overtake them and heel to when the captain, desperate to avoid us plundering 'is ship, overloaded the engines' matter reactors, and prepared to take us all to the dark nothingness. Aye, but here's the rub of it. There were a moment, between one breath and the next, when I knew it would be my last, an' I was prayin' to anythin' that would listen to get me out, that I saw it. The black dog. Just there, at the corner of my eye. Watching me."

 

The space pirate's good eye grew wide, almost panicked, perspiration starting to stand out on his brow.

 

"It's me death, lad. The black dog, y'see, he offered me a deal. To save myself from goin' down with me ship. So now 'e follows me about, just waiting. Watching. Sometimes I swear I can hear him laughin' at me, when I'm in a brawl. Knowin' that any second could be me last."

 

The pirate's voice dropped to a near-whisper.

 

"And that's when the black dog'll get his due..."

[StrikerFox]

My favorite pets are currently Necro. The most recent patch made them super fun and way more effective than they were before. Previously, fave was Thugs.

 

Worst pets for me is Beast. I tried but it was nauseating watching them chase fleeing enemies, not able to catch up enough to attack. But I want to try again as @Galaxy Brain tested MM pet dps in a standard environment, and Beast were at the top of the list. 

 

I always take the pet available to the AT. Pets are usually the reason why I play the AT/primary/secondary.

 

Lore pets are usually chosen based on character theme. Bots MM with Warworks. Mercs/Storm with Storm Elemental. Thugs/Time with Cimeroran, Necro with Phantoms, AR/Devices with Robotic Drones etc. I think I've tried them all split between live and HC.

 

It would be nice if the level shift for pets was removed but it's always been there. I just live with it. If it was gone, it wouldn't affect my builds or gameplay.

 

MMs are awesome. To me, their biggest appeal is being able to control pets while other powers are animating. Other ATs, click one power, queue up the next power, wait, next power starts to animate, queue up another and repeat. 

 

MMs on the other hand... During the 3 sec cast time to set an Acid Mortar... queue up another power, command T1 pets to focus fire on a boss, call back the T3 pet as it's getting low on HP, set the T2 pets on def/stay for my own protection. I feel busier playing an MM.

[Player2]

I hate hate hate Control set pets because the user lacks any control over them and doesn't get a fancy pet status window like MMs do.

 

Look, I get that MMs are supposed to be better with pets, but if there's no in between point with complete control MMs and no control Controllers/Dominators, then there is just nothing to like about pets.