Ever feel useless (Support woes)

[LordTenma]

I play mainly support type characters, ya know Defenders, Controllers. But when one hits incarnate and there's non sup-port classes, popping rezzes, barriers, heals and pretty much decimating everything before I can get hold one off....makes a bloke feel useless. Like, "Why am I even here"

Anyone else ever feel like that?

[FoulVileTerror]

*bites lip*

 

 . . . 

WHOOBOY!

 

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/22534-game-balance-the-endgame/

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/22476-is-game-balance-pointless-in-mmorpgs/

 

It's come up a few times recently.

[EmmySky]

Chat is your salvation!  Crack jokes, tell entertaining tales of heroism or villainy.  Add to the team in any way possible!

 

Even on support toons, I am throwing out buffs and debuffs and whathaveyou.  I have no idea if that tank actually NEEDS fortitude but I'm going to give it to him anyway!  

 

I am of the opinion that how you feel is on you.  If I am walking through a TF decimating everything left and right, it is on you to make yourself feel useful.  As someone who also usually plays support (or at least less  powerful toons like my loldamage sents), I make myself feel useful by casting buffs or entertaining teammates. 

 

I understand what you are saying, that many of those tools you can contribute are less than necessary, but you gotta work on your head cannon.  Tell yourself that you are making the difference!  Just once, throw a mass immob before the tank gathers them up and see what a difference it makes!  Now....never do that again, use that power for good and get in there and save that team from certain hospitalization!

 

But seriously, it is what you make of it.  In a world where <insert your idea of weakest AT powerset combo here> can solo pretty much all content, you have to make yourself feel like you are integral to the success of the team.

[Luminara]

I played Trick Arrows characters almost exclusively for seven years.  "Why am I even here?" could have been my battle cry on almost all of them.  You get used to it and adapt.

[Hexquisite]

You're only useless if you're just following the rest of the team and not doing anything. 

 

It may not seem like your buffs or debuffs or heals are helping, but sometimes that small fraction of advantage brings more benefit than anyone realizes. 

[gamingglen]

17 minutes ago, EmmySky said:

...

Even on support toons, I am throwing out buffs and debuffs and whathaveyou.  I have no idea if that tank actually NEEDS fortitude but I'm going to give it to him anyway!  

...

 

Forget the tankers, they don't need it... put it on blasters (like me 😄) , those players will shower you with praises!  And blasters have the ultimate debuff: faster death to the enemy.  😄   

[Coyotedancer]

As I said in that other huge thread...

On high-level teams? Yep. Absolutely. 

Those kind of teams absolutely do not need me and my support characters. They never have. 

 

Which is why I run all but one of mine (a Time/Dark) exemplared with mid-level teams rather than at 50+.

Those lower level teams actually need me. I make a difference there. 

[Twisted Toon]

1 hour ago, LordTenma said:

I play mainly support type characters, ya know Defenders, Controllers. But when one hits incarnate and there's non sup-port classes, popping rezzes, barriers, heals and pretty much decimating everything before I can get hold one off....makes a bloke feel useless. Like, "Why am I even here"

Anyone else ever feel like that?

My Grav/time controller felt like that early on, once I got in the 40's things started turning around for me.

But then, with access to 8 potential holds (3 of them AoEs) I almost made the tank ask the same question.

In addition, I can stack enough holds to hold an AV (if RNGesus isn't being a jerk), and debuf the regen of the AV.

I guess it all depends on what you have in mind for the support class.

I built the Grav/Time for max hold mag stackability. I could probably increase it a bit, if I worked on it more though.

I'm not a real min/max IO bonus chaser...

[Dahkness]

I play poison defender and I feel much more involved.

 But I agree. I don’t even touch my emp anymore. It’s no fun unless you’re playing for theme or just like the sounds of your own powers.

[Bastille Boy]

I mostly play defenders, corruptors, and tankers. I don't feel useless on endgame teams playing a defender. The key is to focus on buffs (especially +dmg and +res), debuffs (especially -res and -regen), and attacks with secondary effects (especially -res). Healing is still useful sometimes, but it shouldn't be the focus (except in PVP).

 

 

 

[kiramon]

42 minutes ago, Hops said:

I play poison defender and I feel much more involved.

 But I agree. I don’t even touch my emp anymore. It’s no fun unless you’re playing for theme or just like the sounds of your own powers.

You’ve played with my emp. It’s hardly an empathy character. Lol 😂 

[Sir Myshkin]

As someone who has been leading a lot of Tin Mage and Apex TF's every night for the last few weeks I've had the chance to see a lot of transitional characters, and when you're throwing a timer on every run the variances can be pretty striking. I have had teams that were all T3 or better for every Incarnate, had a few T4'd with a few barely-Alpha'd, even a string of purely Alpha-only and myself being the only T3/4 across the board. I have seen Apex and Tin Mage both completed in 11 minutes and change each, and also take nearly 25 minutes for either, but the consistent is typically 14-16 minutes, about 30 minutes for the whole thing.

 

Where does the time go up? When it is all Melee/Blasters with middling builds and a mix of Incarnate parts (or next to none). If I take that same team dynamic and replace any one random character with a Support role that has a solid debuff (Cold, Thermal, Rad, TA, Dark, Poison), and that dial pretty instantly snaps back.

 

How do the low time runs occur? A lot of T4 present, everyone carrying a T3 Lore or better, and at least two strong debuffers backed by two or three high DPS, High-Spec builds. The weak points in those runs are the EB/AV targets, and how efficiently crowd-clearing can occur. The PPD station ambush is the longest aspect of the entire thing because it's triggered events reliant on how fast the team can bend through those spawn points. More folk with T3/4 Judgements to insta-clear spawns, and debuffers that make it possible to liquefy the War Walkers fast (I'm talking seconds fast).

 

Support roles (and I'm more specifically talking their Buff/Debuff side of the equation) are still relevant, but their presence is altering the dynamic of the game at a level that becomes harder to see. Much like taking down a Pylon--as an example--the more aggressive the debuff/damage output of the character becomes, the shorter the time, but what doesn't get seen until the numbers are crunched is how radically different the times are from a DPS standpoint. Once a single character gets into the sub 3:00 time, small errors can mean major changes, and once a build gets into the 1:30 or less range, even just two seconds worth of a player's mistake can mean 10+ seconds of error on the kill timer. Something that might have 300 DPS and take a Pylon down in 4:00 minutes, doubling the DPS suddenly breaks the build into the 1:00-1:30 category, a quarter of the time (not exact numbers, just a relative example of the way it really is).

 

Take that Pylon conditioning concept into an Incarnate trial or Incarnate TF and look at those two or three characters that can kill an AV in a couple of minutes each, we amp up the AV's level and defenses for the content but they'll still take it down in a few minutes. Toss a a Support role in there with a Debuff and we shave a 3:00 time down to 2:00, does it feel like the Support role had a hand in that? No, it absolutely does not, but the truth of it is... well yes, they did, but we're all collectively moving at a speed that's so insanely quick as-is that it has become much harder to separate the difference unless you're statistically looking for it.

[Dahkness]

1 hour ago, kiramon said:

You’ve played with my emp. It’s hardly an empathy character. Lol 😂 

This is true! Your emp is on another level. My emp is an illusion. I’ve been tempted to make a new one as a defender or a cor after seeing yours. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Hops

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, Luminara said:

I played Trick Arrows characters almost exclusively for seven years.  "Why am I even here?" could have been my battle cry on almost all of them.  You get used to it and adapt.

For seven years? Good lord!

[Bill Z Bubba]

I'm in a different boat. I feel useless on my squishies when I'm solo and trying to get them to do what my melee characters can do. On teams, I actually enjoy them.

[MTeague]

11 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I'm in a different boat. I feel useless on my squishies when I'm solo and trying to get them to do what my melee characters can do. On teams, I actually enjoy them.

I'm mostly okay soloing my Blasters, but am stuck on one particular First Ward mission at the moment.  (the one were Katie teleports you into the Asylum and there's endless waves of laser guided seers).

 

Admittedly, it really doesn't help that I've got it set at +1x2 with Bosses, and I'm being a Stubborn Idjit who refuses to consider lowering that.

But I was able to manage every prior mission in First Ward that way, so realllly reluctant to accept reality now.

[summers]

Slightly tongue in cheek but debuffs for 50+ Incarnate content are either:

 

-resistance

 

or

 

Not worth the animation time

 

I'm sorry if this offends people who love Snow Storm or Shiver!

[Judasace]

4 hours ago, LordTenma said:

I play mainly support type characters, ya know Defenders, Controllers. But when one hits incarnate and there's non sup-port classes, popping rezzes, barriers, heals and pretty much decimating everything before I can get hold one off....makes a bloke feel useless. Like, "Why am I even here"

Anyone else ever feel like that?

I felt like that once. Then I realized that  I had an entire other powerset to contribute to the "farming of trashmobs" style of play, so I used that. And when the AV came up to bat, I floored his regen and the others knocked him out of the park.

[FoulVileTerror]

Gonna grab yourself the Empowerment Station Psi-Resist Buffs, @MTeague?

[Bill Z Bubba]

14 minutes ago, Judasace said:

I felt like that once. Then I realized that  I had an entire other powerset to contribute to the "farming of trashmobs" style of play, so I used that. And when the AV came up to bat, I floored his regen and the others knocked him out of the park.

This is the way.

 

Sure, that scrapper over there keeps firing off barrier. The controller has clarion. The tank is rockin the rebirth or ageless.

 

But now this defender suddenly finds himself also protected from mez and has rockin resists and defense so he gets to do that thing he once got yelled at for doing... he gets to use his secondary to BLAST SOME PUNKS IN THE FACE!

[MTeague]

4 minutes ago, FoulVileTerror said:

Gonna grab yourself the Empowerment Station Psi-Resist Buffs, @MTeague?

I should.  I'm not going to use any of the P2W amplifiers though.  Logical or not, it's a thing.

[Heraclea]

I never got a defender out of the teens until I made a Poison/Dark.  No need to con mobs or pick anchors.  Blasts that are also debuffs and do some damage.  Not many powers targeting teammates, who are always out of sight anyways.  This one suits me. 

[Hexquisite]

I should also mention that I never look at numbers, or really what anyone else is doing (other than keeping an eye on party health, if that's my job). I just do what I do, and assume I'm being useful.

[Sovera]

You want to feel useful as a support? Roll a Plant/Kin. You are welcome to any team from level 8 to level 50. You make low levels safe with Seeds of Confusion. You heal the team. At level 20 you do all of the above but also boost their recharge and recovery (which is always horrid in the low levels). At 38 you also boost their damage while *still* keeping people safe and healed if need be.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I see you for what you really are.

 

You are a force multiplier.

 

Many will not see that, but you and I know it.

 

Thank you!