Focused Feedback: Teleportation Pool Revamp

[Lines]

3 minutes ago, Stan The Man said:

When I read the new Combat Teleport power, I thought it would function much like Shield Charge.  And I'm not wrong, but I must have been playing too much Champions or SWTOR as I thought it was more a leap-to-foe attack, done by selecting the target and clicking the power.  I forgot that teleports are targetable powers, not clicks.   Perhaps maybe this is why teleport powers are not popular?

And now I'm wondering, could combat teleport be a click power?  Or would that be impossible to code?

 

You can macro exactly that with /powexeclocation target combat teleport.

 

Since the recharge is so fast, you could take the power off your tray and exclusively use the macro for this.

[arthurh35353]

19 minutes ago, Lines said:

You can macro exactly that with /powexeclocation target combat teleport.

 

Since the recharge is so fast, you could take the power off your tray and exclusively use the macro for this.

Hmm. Probably can't code it to be a target-reticule power and target-to mob, could you?

One thing I noticed (and it may just be the numbers updating slower than the power fires) is that there's about a 1 second lag on the to-hit buff. If it must keep the to-hit buff, I think that should fire before you arrive as you place yourself in position to strike as you like.

Though a +chance to critical hit with your first attack after teleporting might be a more fun option than upping your already high to-hit chance.

[DougReyn]

I tested the new teleport tool on a scrapper that previously went CJ/SJ.

• Merging Recall Friend/teleport foe is a nice QoL, but overall no big deal.
• Combat Teleport is ... fun. I really like how many movement options it opens up.
• Teleport is still cumbersome, slow and not fun. Moving around zones quickly made me want to get back to jumping/flying. For me it's still not a viable travel power.
• Fold Space is awesome. I can see wanting this on all my melees and especially tanks.

But overall i see myself not using them very much due to the following reasons:

• Almost all of my builds do not have a power pool choice free. Between fighting, hasten, maneuvers and CJ/Hover and travel power there is no room left.
• I still need Combat jumping or hover for the defense they provide. If combat teleport gave a similar passive def boost that would not be an issue

Alternative solution:

Make Combat teleport give a passive def boost that stacks with CJ or Hover, then i could drop either weave or maneuvers.

[Lines]

3 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Hmm. Probably can't code it to be a target-reticule power and target-to mob, could you?

I'm unsure what you mean by those. Could you explain for my dumb lizard brain?

 

It might be possible, whatever it is! The parameter in /powexeclocation <parameter> is really versatile.

[Hew]

bind powexecloc to middle mouse button click, done.

 

[Luminara]

11 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Hmm. Probably can't code it to be a target-reticule power and target-to mob, could you?

 

Sure can.  But it wouldn't be thematic with the rest of the teleport powers, which, at a guess, is why it was left as a location-targeted power.

[DoctorDitko]

What they said. For a laugh, try:

 

/macro eject powexeclocation up:max Teleport

 

"Canopy canopy canopy!"

[ScarySai]

56 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Hmm. Probably can't code it to be a target-reticule power and target-to mob, could you?

When macro'd with the location command, it would work exactly like that. One press and you're in their face, provided you are in range.

 

Starless step while shapeshifted pls powerhouse.

[InvaderStych]

5 hours ago, Luminara said:

I'm going to turn myself into a guided missile with this thing.  A screaming, flailing guided missile of slashing, punching, stabbing, thwapping happiness.

Once again you are speaking my language.  Dare I pair this with ...

 

... Whirlwind? 😄

 

Also, target priority binds just got a lot more interesting to me.  I pulled one for Sappers from Help Chat and saved it for future use.  I'll have to crack that open again for another look.

 

5 hours ago, ironjoe said:

... but keep the activation/recharge times the same because that keeps the fun in the power.

 

IMO this is the most important part.  Especially if the design goal was to get people to choose the power for its own merits rather than its slotting possibilities, which I think I saw referenced somewhere up-thread.

 

Whatever buff it offers, I don't want to trade that for slowing down the overall pacing of the power.  Right now it's in a good place - fast enough to be fun without (as far as we can tell to this point) being so fast as to be abuse-able in some fashion.

 

But even just a touch slower and it not only loses fun factor, but also risks losing viability for use on fast moving teams. 

 

4 hours ago, Stan The Man said:

thought it was more a leap-to-foe attack, done by selecting the target and clicking the power. 

 

The simplest way to make a button for that is basically something like this:

 

/macro Bamf! powexec_location target Combat Teleport

 

This makes a tray button with no graphic that says "Bamf!" in little letters.  You can then select a target, activate the macro button and land in said target's face - baseball bat in hand (in my instance).

 

One can use /macro_image to make it look better, but I can never remember right names for all the various button textures, and I was feeling lazy on the beta server. 😄

 

4 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Hmm. Probably can't code it to be a target-reticule power and target-to mob, could you?

 

If you mean like double-tapping an attack to lock the nearest target and then execute the attack, no probably not but I don't really know.  I am still figuring out all of the macro syntax.

 

 

______

 

 

Edit:  I should probably mention that if your target is moving you land where they were when you activated CT.  In practice you can use the 2nd click (usually enough) to catch them where they decide to stop, turn, and fire from range.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by InvaderStych
fixed code

[Vanden]

8 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

If you mean like double-tapping an attack to lock the nearest target and then execute the attack, no probably not but I don't really know.  I am still figuring out all of the macro syntax.

Just add "targetcustomnext enemy$$" before your powexec command in you macro.

[arkieboy72472]

I tried fold space both with a Trick arrow def as part of a duo (trick arrow is now stupid good, thanks all) and by myself as a grav controller. Me and some other pimp blaster went to KW (I always get stuck there as it won't load for me every time, but anyways...I hate you Kallisti Wharf!) and did a 3/8 Market Crash trial just the two of us. In this iteration, he had fold space. Our timing was off, but in the first mission I would shoot my glue arrow or -res arrow and he would TP in, start wrecking face, then I would drop a slick, he would "fold" in another group while i lit the oil slick and dropped acid arrow and other things. Now, I have a proc loaded build and though procs got nerfed a little, my Lord it was magnificent. My Defender felt like a God. Me and him were talking, and we were both lvl 50's with most the T3 incarnates and whatever IO's we wanted. With the exception of the AV, we could probably run easily as a duo on 3/8 and 4/8 stuff. With envenomed daggers and pets, we could probably duo that easily. I can't remember what he was (rad or dark or something awesome, and I was even missing 2 TA powers, but I totally see them nerfing the shit out of the power they created for us, because it is going to be THAT good and we can't have nice things. If you have a strong debuff set like DEV, Traps, TA....or can throw out some -tohit enough to survive alpha, oh man. It will be glorious. This power even makes Time Bomb worth a damn again. Yea...THAT shitty power. Good.

 

As for the other instance, I grab my almost pimped out grav/time controller. My timing is off and it will take getting used to, but I can essentially wormhole or fold every group to me with enough recharge. (you can alternate if your careful, as fold space can fire off regardless) With Wormhole, I at least get the stun and the knock down from the proc I put in it as mitigation. With fold, what I had to do was buff up with a few time powers (a heal and defense I think I forget), drop a slow patch (i forgot the name), fold them into my toggle aura which has max -tohit, (combined with my own defense allows me a surviving chance) then either mass hold them when that power is up or drop the intangible bubble on my OWN location which still allows me to attack, but immobilizes them. Then I just spam single target attacks (propel hits for splash damage quite nicely with the hold) and immobs (getting containment) while my pet does its thing. This one power, used right, will make many, many more people able to solo more reliably. It is a finesse thing though. While you can slip a slow patch under neath the maintainable bubble full of dudes and then wormhole yet another group in there, you can't okie doke fold space. If you lack line of sight you may get half the group, and it can't snag everyone. If you stun or hold them prior to folding, you can then do all sorts of crazy stuff. People with -tohit buffs like smoke, sand, and flash arrow (or sleep) will be able to abuse the hell out of fold space as will devices and trap players, especially since they buffed Gun Drone. You can set up shop and wheel them in, then pick off the stragglers later. Any nukes can be dropped and viola. Now, you may say you could just TP in and do that, especially if you have a debuff aura. This power just allows for more shenanigans.

 

Mark my words, they will nerf it before release. it is too good. It happened to Shadow Maul.

Edited October 26, 2020 by arkieboy72472

[Blood Speaker]

On 10/24/2020 at 9:08 AM, WindDemon21 said:

How would it be that different than jaunt if it cools down after 3 tries. For example when chasing a runner that is constantly running from you. No issue for combat jumping, but this with a cooldown is a big deal.

I've frequently solved many runner/porter issues by teleporting the enemy back to me, rather than teleporting after them. A combat teleport isn't going to catch a Tsoo Sorcerer or Skyraider Porter, anyway. Teleport Foe does.

[UpandAtom]

1 hour ago, Keovar said:

Also, can TP Target work on Rescue/Kidnap NPCs to get around the stupid pathing in lead-out missions?

I WISH you could yank escorts around like that. Sadly I think Cryptic's devs thought that would be exploitative since you could stealth and TP escort VIPs right outta harm's way, like some kind of smart cookie or something.

[macskull]

Just now, Keovar said:

I can stealth-murder specific targets, why not stealth-rescue/kidnap them too?  You'd still need to defeat the mobs guarding the target, and once you do that, any ambushes home in on you regardless of concealment.  Honestly, the most useful this the ability to TP mission NPCs would do is to keep them from falling into holes, or crying every time you get a few yards away.  I'd also kinda like the ability to get rid of the stupider 'allies' (Flambeau), so for them I could find some out of the way spot to TP them into and then move away quickly to ditch them.

It's to prevent things like "teammate 1 runs across the map to rescue NPC while teammate 2 stands at the door and once the NPC is rescued teammate 2 uses ATT to pull teammate 1 and the NPC back to the mission door."

[macskull]

While I agree with you, obviously the developers at the time felt differently.

[Koopak]

I don't get the hatred for the LRTP change. My main that i have sunk 90% of my play time into has LRTP and frankly? Its dead weight, I have it for flavor alone. The presence of TUNNEL, base teleports, and so on makes LRTP literally worthless. I vastly prefer it as a badge reward than as a friggen pool power.

I get the argument of "you are giving up power for mobility" but you just aren't, you are giving up power for a shiny teleport animation, that's it. Even after this goes live, you take the base teleport accolade and base teleport prestige power, and the two base portal generators, slap in a macro to take you to your base, or someone else that has portals RIGHT there, and boom yer back to LRTP levels of mobility for no investment, and currently you can do all that with JUST the macro.

If you don't like the free mobility? that's fair, that's an understandable opinion to have, but that's a philosophical difference in development, not one power.
 

Similarly Combat Teleport and Fold Space are damn near perfect. I literally cannot make the cool down on Combat Teleport matter except when DROWNING in -recharge, which, no crap, that SHOULD hamper you. Just as drowning is slow hampers hover and combat jumping. And hey the enhancement set bonuses that treat one of those treat all of them. I don't think the defense argument holds water either, none of those powers give you the freedom combat teleport does or the rapid response options, and a to hit buff makes sense thematically. Just have to use it to increase the odds of hitting with yer chonky damage, and if you want you can skimp on to-hit elsewhere because of it.

Fold Space is what trappers have been begging for since day one, control of a group of mobs positioning is difficult, all the more so if you have a bad controller mass holding without letting the group pack up. Fold Space lets you resolve that little issue nicely for the cost of a power, and has several other utilities, my only complaint is i agree it and similar powers could use a small buff to let them yank +4 bosses, anything bigger than that,  nah. In fact id say make the mag dependent on the target's rank if need be so that you can yank a +4 boss but not a -1 elite boss, if that's an issue (haven't tested)

Overall excellent changes! Aside from the note on Fold Space, pack it, ship it.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Koopak

[AxerJax]

Think groups are going to be bouncing around to players as each casts Fold Space? The tanker casts it,  then the blaster for his nuke, then the stormie for hurricane, then whichever other characters have pbaoes they want to explode? That may not happen at all, but it seems like enemies could be pingponged a bit. Not everyone is going to be investing in the Teleport tree though, of course. It'll probably be fine. Kind of interesting thinking about this power going off multiple times per encounter, though.

Edited October 26, 2020 by AxerJax

[dtj714]

5 hours ago, AxerJax said:

Think groups are going to be bouncing around to players as each casts Fold Space? The tanker casts it,  then the blaster for his nuke, then the stormie for hurricane, then whichever other characters have pbaoes they want to explode? That may not happen at all, but it seems like enemies could be pingponged a bit. Not everyone is going to be investing in the Teleport tree though, of course. It'll probably be fine. Kind of interesting thinking about this power going off multiple times per encounter, though.

Based on the feedback thus far, this will be happening a lot, since, as you point out, many people see it as useful to their particular role/tactics. That, and/or a lot of people are going to have a redundant T5 power rendered useless (or less useful) by someone else having it. Plus, how many other power casts are going to be wasted by this?  Start up your long-cast nuke then..YOINK mobs are gone. Getting into position for a mire, then YOINK mobs are gone. Lay down your trap, etc. in one spot, then YOINK mobs are someplace else.  I’m telling you, when you use this power (or use it in close coordination with someone) you may love it, but when someone else is using it without you knowing how/when (as in the vast majority of groups), you’re going to hate it. Multiple people being able to insta-port groups of mobs around is not a good thing...

 

It would be simple to fix LRTP.  Just give it more initial destinations, and let it be used for ANY zone (not otherwise prohibited) with an unlock system (but much simpler) like the accolade power. Obviously the way they have the accolade power proves it can be done.  The accolade power (or P2W as it should be) needs to stay limited and have a longish recharge so it and LRTP aren’t redundant. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by dtj714

[ABlueThingy]

I just wanted to say that Combat Teleport is REALLY fun. 

 

I'm thinking of trying an Elec/Shield with the Super Jump and TP pools.  Then I'm going to bind all my basic melee attacks to execute Combat Teleport first.

 

3 teleport attacks, every melee attack will teleport me too.  For good measure I will TP enemy groups onto ME.

 

I'm going to completely disassociate my molecules!

[Sif]

4 hours ago, dtj714 said:

Start up your long-cast nuke then..YOINK mobs are gone.

FYI, this wouldn't be an issue, as the hit rolls are calculated at the beginning of the casting*. If someone teleports them away, then you start casting, that'd obviously be an issue, and a possibility, but seems like a weird scenario. I don't imagine this being much of an issue in practice, certainly less than a drunk energy / stormy user, flinging knockbacks every which way (doubly so since it wouldn't result in any scatter). Any team with even the slightest coordination (even less than the typical PuG I'm on) should see Fold Space as a net win.

 

* Ones that spawn a pseudo pet after a delay which then deals the damage would determine the targets after the delay, and would be impacted negatively. I can't recall if any nukes actually do this off the top of my head.

 

4 hours ago, dtj714 said:

but when someone else is using it without you knowing how/when (as in the vast majority of groups), you’re going to hate it. Multiple people being able to insta-port groups of mobs around is not a good thing...

On the other hand, to use it well all you really need to do is wait for the enemies to be rather scattered, get next to whoever would be holding aggro, and cast it. If the enemies are scattered about, it'll clump them up, making melee's life easier, as well as anyone wanting to fling AoEs.

 

I don't really expect a ton of people to be taking Fold Space (more than LRTP, but that's a very low bar), much less to be spamming it every time it's up as if it's part of their attack rotation. Seeing as it doesn't scatter, I'd expect it to be much easier to use productively than Wormhole (a well-placed Wormhole would be superior to a FS, though, as it also does mez).

[Coyote]

On 10/24/2020 at 8:14 PM, Luminara said:

 

I want it to say "Yoink!" when it's used.  I really, honestly do.

 

Yoink over your head, or Yoinked over each target's head?

[Replacement]

2 hours ago, ABlueThingy said:

I just wanted to say that Combat Teleport is REALLY fun. 

 

I'm thinking of trying an Elec/Shield with the Super Jump and TP pools.  Then I'm going to bind all my basic melee attacks to execute Combat Teleport first.

 

3 teleport attacks, every melee attack will teleport me too.  For good measure I will TP enemy groups onto ME.

 

I'm going to completely disassociate my molecules!

I like your gumption, but... how?  What would that keybind look like?  Pretty sure it would be something like /bind 1 "powexeclocation target combat teleport$$powexecname charged brawl" but, unless that works simply because they're different commands, I think they'll trip over each other and you'll just activate the attack.

 

If you can make this work, definitely let us know.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Replacement

[Steam_InGen]

15 hours ago, arkieboy72472 said:

I tried fold space both with a Trick arrow def as part of a duo (trick arrow is now stupid good, thanks all) and by myself as a grav controller. Me and some other pimp blaster went to KW (I always get stuck there as it won't load for me every time, but anyways...I hate you Kallisti Wharf!) and did a 3/8 Market Crash trial just the two of us. In this iteration, he had fold space. Our timing was off, but in the first mission I would shoot my glue arrow or -res arrow and he would TP in, start wrecking face, then I would drop a slick, he would "fold" in another group while i lit the oil slick and dropped acid arrow and other things. Now, I have a proc loaded build and though procs got nerfed a little, my Lord it was magnificent. My Defender felt like a God. Me and him were talking, and we were both lvl 50's with most the T3 incarnates and whatever IO's we wanted. With the exception of the AV, we could probably run easily as a duo on 3/8 and 4/8 stuff. With envenomed daggers and pets, we could probably duo that easily. I can't remember what he was (rad or dark or something awesome, and I was even missing 2 TA powers, but I totally see them nerfing the shit out of the power they created for us, because it is going to be THAT good and we can't have nice things. If you have a strong debuff set like DEV, Traps, TA....or can throw out some -tohit enough to survive alpha, oh man. It will be glorious. This power even makes Time Bomb worth a damn again. Yea...THAT shitty power. Good.

 

Mark my words, they will nerf it before release. it is too good. It happened to Shadow Maul.

I was the blaster. 😄 But yea i agree with Arkie here, it was a load of fun! Duo +4 was not out of the question with TA and fold space. While I'm not totally on board with thinkin they will nerf Fold Space. it does have it's draw backs. I almost never TP'd bosses, on my blaster I have a load of acc, I don't like to miss. As it stands now I don't think fold space needs to be nerf'd. it's only really useful to melee type toons and the fact that bosses have mag 4.1 tp resist means it's not OP. Any kind of nerf in my opinion would mean basicaaly making the power useless. and we don't need more useless pool powers floating around. there is a reason almost everyone takes leadership, fighting, and travel powers. They are useful 90% of the time.

Forgot to chime in on combat tp.

I'm not sure what to make of it... On the one hand it's nice to have a tp power that doesn't make you float for a sec or two, but on the other it has a steep learning curve. The three use and recharge mechnic is nice, probably even  balanced, but I feel like it should have maybe one or two more uses before cooldown. 5 uses might make it more usable. Wont know unless it gets the change... More testing my be in order. Teleport target, 100% nice QoL change.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Steam_InGen
Forgot to finish my thought.

[Luminara]

37 minutes ago, Coyote said:

Yoink over your head, or Yoinked over each target's head?

 

I want the sound.  I want my characters to say, "Yoink!" every time they use it.

 

Dead serious.  I might have to go find a suitable clip to turn into a mod.

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

I like your gumption, but... how?  What would that keybind look like?  Pretty sure it would be something like /bind 1 "powexeclocation target combat teleport$$powexecname charged brawl" but, unless that works simply because they're different commands, I think they'll trip over each other and you'll just activate the attack.

 

If you can make this work, definitely let us know.

You can not activate two powers with one keypress (binds or macros).  You won't be able to make a bind or macro that both combat teleports and attacks.