Weekly Discussion 76: Noticeably underpowered sets. What needs an emergency buff?

[BrandX]

On 11/8/2020 at 8:13 AM, Yomo Kimyata said:

Emergency?  I'm not sure why a rebalance would be an emergency?  Is there a threat of mass exodus unless Assault Rifle is buffed?  It may just be me, but that one word implies a quick fix and I'd hate to see a cobbled-together buff for anything.  I'm far more on the side of emergency nerfs, but again, that may just be me.

 

There are some sets that could benefit from careful, reasoned buffs though, and I'll work on my opinions later today.

 

While I agree with this statement...

 

...still going to have to put in my opinion that Regen needs a buff before anything else.

 

However, I'll be honest and say any of these suggestions would likely be self serving from everyone.  😛

 

So, I'll give some sets that I likely won't play, but I think could use them...Force Field could use some love.  Something I thought may work is Deflection and Insulation Shield both give a passive, unable to be enhanced, Defense Bonus.  The same level as the ATs CJ/Hover without enhancement.

 

They could do the same for the other Buff Team powers if they want.  Each "buff team" (but not buff individual or the caster themself) power for every set could give a passive, unable to be enhanced, benefit that correlates to buff power.

 

Sonic gives a +Resist All

Kinetics Speed Boost gives a +RCH

Ice Domination gives a +Defense

Thermal Radiation gives a +Resist

 

Been forever since I ran Empathy (back with Paragon Studios) did it have team all buffs except for caster?

[Blastit]

5 hours ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

Is there some reason it needs to be a 25 degree cone? Can't it be thematically ok as a TAoE or a wider cone with the gun being moved side to side?

Widening the cone and giving it a sweeping spray animation would be just fine with me. I'm not against improving the power, I just think we shouldn't lose track of the set's style.

 

 

 

 

I think that Stone Armor needs a major rework, not simply a buff. The tensions between Granite Armor and the rest of the set is probably too great and I think a much cooler and interesting set is possible. I'd go for Rock, Magma and Crystal being mutually exclusive toggles, with a timed toggle that's a combination of Earth's Embrace and Rooted to act as an emergency button while the rest of the set is passives that improve the three main toggles. The idea is that it's a semi-shapeshift set and you pick toggle depending on what you want done. Rock would be resistance-based and the general defensive toggle, Magma would be an offensive booster that upgrades with a damage aura and Cystal provides defense and a stun aura. The granite golem would be an alternative animation for Rock Armor because it's after all pretty neat. The T9 could be a earthquake/eruption/shardstorm timed PBAoE toggle with different effects depending on which armour toggle you had on when it activated.

 

Pretty rough outline and would probably require more work than a typical armour set but I think that poor old Stone Armor deserves to be unique and worthwhile as a whole rather than for just one single power that locks you into teleportation.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Blastit

[siolfir]

4 hours ago, tidge said:

Regarding:

So many AT have a 'Knockback Hole' that is (as noted above) trivially plugged by the use of a Universal IO piece in a travel power that I don't think this specifically requires an 'emergency' fix. I know that dedicating a slot (Resistance or Travel) to getting 4 points of KB protection was the specific complaint, but this strikes me as a pretty narrow issue given that there is a fix for everyone. I am aware that not everyone wants to take a travel power, but that is a somewhat radical choice given that a travel power can provide a character KB protection, and KB resistance is a craft-able temporary buff.

 

But the premise of the request was that you are on an AT that does not have that hole unless you specifically select one of those powersets, which do not offer sufficient advantages relative to the other available sets to warrant having the hole in the first place. It was also an aside - I don't consider it an emergency, but something that diminishes those sets.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Given that procs work approximately the same in the future as they do today, I don't think anything that can run in proc-heavy mode needs a lot of work.  I include AR in this.  It's not a great set, but it's not ridiculously awful.  I could see juicing up the damage a little bit, and changing the radius on Ignite to something like that of Caltrops or Burn.

 

I feel like Broadsword could use some help as well.  Originally the king of burst damage, it's been left in the dust by War Mace and Battle Axe.  I'm not sure what a good fix would be.  Giving Headsplitter a wider cone would really be nice.

 

Sonic Resonance is in desperate need of a makeover.  

[Vanden]

I don't think it's an emergency, but Street Justice could really use attention on non-Stalker ATs. I've played it on both Brute and Stalker and it's just night and day how much better the Stalker version is.

 

 

[ninja surprise]

12 hours ago, Blastit said:

One thing I'd like tried out is turning Full Auto into a timed toggle that roots you. You can, after all, just let go of the trigger.

That would be pretty amazing, you toggle it on and just keep spraying until you run out of endurance or enemies.

[Eva Destruction]

13 hours ago, Blastit said:

 

One thing I'd like tried out is turning Full Auto into a timed toggle that roots you. You can, after all, just let go of the trigger.

That would be awesome actually.  I could spin the camera SO MANY TIMES.

 

10 hours ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

Is there some reason it needs to be a 25 degree cone? Can't it be thematically ok as a TAoE or a wider cone with the gun being moved side to side?

A wider cone, yes.  A TAoE, no.  Bullets do not work that way.  (Yes, I am aware that Dual Pistols has bullets doing all kinds of things that bullets do not actually do, but the two sets are very different thematically.)

 

19 hours ago, SaintD said:

I wrote a whole post and then deleted it because I realised we already have what Assault Rifle should mechanically be.

 

Archery.

 

Assault Rifle should be 'ranged claws', with really fast recharge and animation time, and low endurance cost. Which is just Archery.

 

Assault Rifle seems impossible to fix now because it should look exactly like Archery.

Assault Rifle should not mechanically be like Archery because Archery is already like Archery.  If you like the mechanics of Archery, play Archery.  Sets shouldn't be clones of each other with different skins, it's lazy and boring and way less fun to make alts if they all play the same.

[Mr. Vee]

My thought was TAoE just to cut out some of the cone positioning the set's already heavy with but the damage would still be DoT to simulate that not everyone's getting hit at the same time. Not a ground TAoE like archery, just a regular one where you could target the center of the mob and not worry about your nuke only hitting 2 targets.

[Eva Destruction]

13 minutes ago, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

My thought was TAoE just to cut out some of the cone positioning the set's already heavy with but the damage would still be DoT to simulate that not everyone's getting hit at the same time. Not a ground TAoE like archery, just a regular one where you could target the center of the mob and not worry about your nuke only hitting 2 targets.

Cone positioning is inherent to the set's playstyle at this point though.  The variance in range and width of the cones is what makes it awkward, not the fact that it has cones in the first place.  If you don't like that playstyle, AR isn't the set for you.  

[Arcadio]

I've been thinking about Sonic Resonance a lot recently, it's so across-the-board outclassed. It's a shield/debuff set like cold, but cold is amazing while people forget sonic exists. Now part of that is that defense buffs affect everyone essentially equally while squishy people get less out of resists, and part of it is that the set bonuses for resistance really don't compare to those for resistance. But the biggest part I'm disappointed with is how sonic debuffs resistance by such a middling amount given that's just about all it does. Maybe most of my problem is with the Achille's Heel proc doing a whopping -20% on any power that has -def, but in something like sleet specifically, with just that proc it out does sonic in an aoe. Whereas sonic can debuff half the aoe and then the rest on one target. Maybe if Liquify were something that could be used every spawn like sleet there would be actual competition between the sets, but now it's just pathetic. 

 

Also, I need to know in whose imagination does turning into a granite golem make you punch softer? I can accept the movement and recharge debuffs, they make thematic sense. But -damage on top is just too much. I used to love Stone Armor, but then I started making builds 😞 

[zenblack]

Heading to the front of the revamp que, in no particular order:

 

Sonic Attack (Def/Corr/Blast/Sent)

Assault Rifle (Def/Corr/Blast/Sent)

Regeneration (Scrap/Brute)

Stone Armor (Tank/Brute)

Dark Melee (Tank/Brute/Scrap/Stalk)

Kinetic Melee (Tank/Stalk)

Mind Control (Cont/Dom)

Pain Domination (Def/Corr/Cont/MM)

Ninjas (MM)

Mercenaries (MM)

Medicine Pool

Edited November 10, 2020 by zenblack

[BurtHutt]

I see a lot of good comments and agree with most. So, I'll try and suggest a minor issue - Force of Will power pool set. The activation times are awful (this is also the same in various sets but my main has this pool and it is sooooooooo annoying at times). I don't know how many times my target is dropped between activation time and the power firing off...happens all the time during any invasion event, minion type enemies and so on. I don't think I'd take this pool power again due to the long, drawn out activation/animation time. I do like the concept and the actual powers but not so great when you try and attack using some of the powers.

[Gobbledigook]

Another I think could do with a little help is Willpower.

 

It is a good set but it offers no offensive power and the survival isn't the best though it is good. 

 

The tweak I suggest is to raise the Defence Debuff Resistance (DDR) a little to around 40% for tankers. This would help the set quite a bit I think.

[tidge]

Wouldn't that just make Willpower a better version of Super Reflexes?

[Alchemystic]

I was gonna comment on the whole Mastermind primaries thing, but thinking on it I think Masterminds need a week of discussion dedicated to just that.

 

Mercs, Ninjas and Beasts definitely underperform compared to the others, but that's going to need a lot of focused debate to figure out how to move forward.

[Blastit]

5 hours ago, tidge said:

Wouldn't that just make Willpower a better version of Super Reflexes?

SR on tankers gets something absurd like 90 or 95% DDR, I think?, so even if WP gets it bumped up to 40% I'm not sure if that really changes the sets' relative value.

[BurtHutt]

I think it has been mentioned and maybe it doesn't really fit here but the Sentinel AT needs some improving. I have no idea why I like the AT so much but I do! I always team so the lack of damage isn't as obvious but when you break down the numbers...yikes!

 

Also, under the Fire Blast power set, why does Blazing Blast have a knockback effect?!!? Really?! Please get rid of that 🙂

[Shadowsleuth]

On 11/8/2020 at 3:25 AM, CrudeVileTerror said:

Mercenaries could use an emergency buff!

The fix which I've fixated on (heh) is the idea that Mercenaries decouple of the Medic from the Soldiers Power, add a third Soldier Henchpet, and have the Medic become a 7th Henchpet as the level 18 Power in the Set.

"What happens to Serum then," you may ask?  We tone it down, remove the crash, make it an AoE, and give it to the Medic as a Buff for all the other Henchies.

Love the idea of making Serum an AoE & the idea of a 7th Henchpet.

I'm a little hesitant about pushing the Medic to Level 18 (On Live I played a Mercs/Traps, & the Medic was a life-saver for both the other Henchpets & myself even at the low (sub-lvl 18) levels).

 

Could the 7th Henchpet be a 2nd Medic? Or would that break the set?

 

And whether or not the above idea is used, I think that @Shazbotacus idea of giving the Medic a Generator (Triage Generator: Regen Plus small Defense Boost) similar to the Sky Raiders Generator is an idea that is pure awesome, as mentioned in this thread:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/12055-i-want-to-talk-about-buffing-mercs/

[Eva Destruction]

3 hours ago, Blastit said:

SR on tankers gets something absurd like 90 or 95% DDR, I think?, so even if WP gets it bumped up to 40% I'm not sure if that really changes the sets' relative value.

SR on Scrappers gets 95%, which is the hard cap.  I can't imagine Tankers are lower.  SR also has much higher def numbers than WP, and is trivially easy to softcap.

 

Although I wouldn't consider Willpower "Noticeably underpowered" unless you're comparing to Bio armor which is overpowered.

[@Ghost]

I played /Staff on a tanker (before the AT buffs, admittedly) and it's the only character I've ever just completely given up on, so that gets my nomination.

[CrudeVileTerror]

uh, @Shadowsleuth?

Medic is -already- a Level 18 Henchpet, unless you're getting Sidekick'd up to 18 or higher while 17 or lower.

I made the same mistake when whoever it was first suggested the idea.   I did a little double-take and went "oh.   Nevermind.   This is perfect, actually."

[Shadowsleuth]

27 minutes ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

uh, @Shadowsleuth?

Medic is -already- a Level 18 Henchpet, unless you're getting Sidekick'd up to 18 or higher while 17 or lower.

I made the same mistake when whoever it was first suggested the idea.   I did a little double-take and went "oh.   Nevermind.   This is perfect, actually."

I had forgotten the level Medic was gained.

 

I enjoyed setting up & pulling enemies onto 3 rows of mines &  having caltrops under my feet which would make any enemy turn around & walk right back into any mines they missed, while flipping my Merc henchpets from passive to aggressive to finish them.

 

Warwolves were the only thing that ruined that little move, always had to place a mine under my feet just for them.

[Heraclea]

On 11/9/2020 at 11:13 PM, zenblack said:

Heading to the front of the revamp que, in no particular order:

 

Dark Melee (Tank/Brute/Scrap/Stalk)

On a tanker, at least, Dark Melee has never been about seeing big yellow numbers, but rather about improving your toughness with a fast firing self heal and consistent tohit debuffs.  Not a great farmer set, but a fine team oriented tanking set. 

[therealtitanman]

Every lethal set needs a buff especially assault & dpistol. almost every hit is single digit in Trial with full purple.

[screemer]

mercs are just baaaad,

 

soldiers

stimulant lasts 45 sec with a 15 sec recharge so cant even stim all his friends. make it like speed boost so it casts and catches all the pets or raise the time and lower the cd or something

5 degree cone on auto fire feels bad for the base soldiers

 

spec ops

were to even start they only have 3 attacks a anemic snipe and 2 single target bursts 30 sec web grenade 2min flashbang a 3 min tear gas oh and they get to smack with the rifle but as a upgrade great

 

commando

1 min full auto with a way to narrow cone a 4 friggen minute LRM  just respawn him if he fires it