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Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 1)

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Posted by Captain Powerhouse,

We are aware of the stacking animation issues between Hover and Fly. We are looking at possible workarounds but no promises at this time, its just an artifact of how the animation system works. Currently, manually turning on hover is the only solution.   If we can figure something out, we will implement it. Already got some things to test internally and see if they make the cut, still want everyone to stay grounded in the possibility that the only workaround might be to manage the
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Posted by Captain Powerhouse,

The current "use at the same time" change is focused on travel powers due to the complexity of implementation and testing. In a future update we might look at doing a similar thing for stealth powers, but thats beyond the scope of this update.

Notes on Stealth exclusivity

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Posted by Arcanum,

I'm borrowing this spreadsheet from @Bopper to help list out the detailed numbers for those who have questions/are concerned regarding the Flight Speed changes. You can checkout his full post here.   Flight Pool (Fly, Hover, and Evasive Maneuvers):   HC Live:     Page 2:   I understand there are other concerns regarding the change. However, for those interested in the numbers, there they are. Also, for those who dislike numbers and apprec

Spreadsheet comparing numbers for Flight Speed changes.

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gameboy1234

gameboy1234

Posted
Posted
On 3/17/2021 at 2:27 PM, Captain Citadel said:

EM looks really good on paper initially, but unfortunately that +19.04 mph is largely being wasted. I have two 50+5 generic +FlySpeed IOs, one in Fly and the other in Swift. Combined with Agility Radial Paragon in my Alpha slot, this is what I'm getting with Fly after EM is turned off.

I like EM a lot.  With EM, I don't need to slot Swift or Fly for flight speed.  I can leave Fly at one slot and put an EndRdx in there, and I can one or two slot EM with EndRdx and I'm pretty happy.  Almost at the flight speed cap.  I assume a few IO set bonuses will get me all the way to the cap, even without trying to slot for it.  This means I can save slots and put them elsewhere, and use Swift for something else.

 

I just tested it this way and it's pretty useful to build like this.

 

The cap is 102 mph with Afterburner, Fly and EM running.  Time from north tram in IP to NW corner of the zone was about 1 min 47 sec (Swift had one level 40 Fly SO , but AB, Fly and EM were unenhanced).  The time for the same trip with SS and SJ both running was 2 min 20 secs (both of those were completely unenhanced).  Fly w/ EM  and AB is pretty darn fast.

 

I added one level 40 Run SO in Swift, and one Run in SS and one Jump in SJ, and I got a time of 1 min 56 secs for the same distance.  That's pretty close, but still short of *unenhanced* Fly + EM.  Of course EM requires another power pick like Air Superiority but still it's pretty decent.

 

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dom9630

dom9630

Posted
Posted
On 3/13/2021 at 6:26 AM, GM Arcanum said:

 

    • SuperSpeed_SpeedPhase.png.be2bac846fa85fc6ccc538976819a9c0.png Speed Phase
      • New secondary (server tray) power
      • Toggle, moderate endurance cost
      • Removes collision with characters (ie: phase shift without being untargetable), and sets you to Only Affect Self (Then why this?)
        • This allows you to pass through enemies, allies, civilians, cars, and even the Atlas Park blimp!
        • Note: as this power doesn't actually make you intangible (If this?), it doesn't trigger (and isn't affected by) the No Phase timer

 

 

Perhaps there could be a phase in to phase out mechanic when you engage combat? 

 

Maybe it's a bit nit-picky, but having another button to bind for this ability feels like an undue burden for what is essentially a (very much appreciated) quality of life improvement to super speeding in "city" of heroes. Civilian NPCs are tanks when it comes to moving around maps, no matter how high your dmg% is, and this is a much needed change.

 

Also,

 

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arthurh35353

arthurh35353

Posted
Posted (edited)

Well, it looks like I missed one of the most important things that the developers are doing, which is forcing people to take slots from other powers and make you put them in your current travel powers to reach the new adjusted maximums. 

 

I really hate being forced to change all my current slots so that we can be forced to slot the way the developers want. This is literally the same as them thinking that 1 slot of each type of enhancements is the way people should play. So this increasing numbers is literally so they can force people to respec to get their equivalent effectiveness.

 

We are all so overpowered because we want to fly/leap/speed/tp to mission doors faster with the new increase.

 

This is the kind of stupid and shortsighted 'forced' changes that upset people in MMOs. Or the engineers fix.

 

"We'll increase the maximums, but they'll have to slot more for it! This is an absolutely stellar idea that has no drawbacks and won't piss off any players, even though at least 25% to 75% of people will see that they no longer hit maximum speed any more! PERFECTION!"

 

((Thank you for actually pushing me to look at taking a break from COH for the first time in 18 years.))

Edited by arthurh35353
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Wavicle

Wavicle

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it looks like I missed one of the most important things that the developers are doing, which is forcing people to take slots from other powers and make you put them in your current travel powers to reach the new adjusted maximums. 

 

I really hate being forced to change all my current slots so that we can be forced to slot the way the developers want. This is literally the same as them thinking that 1 slot of each type of enhancements is the way people should play. So this increasing numbers is literally so they can force people to respec to get their equivalent effectiveness.

 

We are all so overpowered because we want to fly/leap/speed/tp to mission doors faster with the new increase.

 

This is the kind of stupid and shortsighted 'forced' changes that upset people in MMOs. Or the engineers fix.

 

"We'll increase the maximums, but they'll have to slot more for it! This is an absolutely stellar idea that has no drawbacks and won't piss off any players, even though at least 25% to 75% of people will see that they no longer hit maximum speed any more! PERFECTION!"

No longer hit maximum speed... but are Faster.

 

I think most players are going to correctly see this as a buff.

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Tater Todd

Tater Todd

Posted
Posted

I would just like to say the travel changes are really something else.  I feel like at page 36 there's no need for me to go into details but I approve and excellent work here.

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Bopper

Bopper

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it looks like I missed one of the most important things that the developers are doing, which is forcing people to take slots from other powers and make you put them in your current travel powers to reach the new adjusted maximums. 

 

I really hate being forced to change all my current slots so that we can be forced to slot the way the developers want. This is literally the same as them thinking that 1 slot of each type of enhancements is the way people should play. So this increasing numbers is literally so they can force people to respec to get their equivalent effectiveness.

 

We are all so overpowered because we want to fly/leap/speed/tp to mission doors faster with the new increase.

 

This is the kind of stupid and shortsighted 'forced' changes that upset people in MMOs. Or the engineers fix.

 

"We'll increase the maximums, but they'll have to slot more for it! This is an absolutely stellar idea that has no drawbacks and won't piss off any players, even though at least 25% to 75% of people will see that they no longer hit maximum speed any more! PERFECTION!"

 

((Thank you for actually pushing me to look at taking a break from COH for the first time in 18 years.))

You can literally hit all the speed caps for Flight using the same number of power picks you have to do on Live. On Live you can take Fly and Afterburner (then slot Afterburner to hit the 87.95 mph cap, you'll need about +105% strength added). Or on Page 2 you can take Fly and Evasive Maneuvers and use no extra slots, give both powers a Fly SO and you'll hit the 87.95 mph cap and the 102.27 mph afterburner cap.

 

If taking two powers does not interest you, you can take the extra slot you put in Afterburner on Live and put it on Fly, give Fly two +5 IOs and you will hit the 87.95 mph cap and the 102.27 mph afterburner cap without having to take a 2nd power. 

 

All of that is detailed here.

 

Telling people it takes more investment to achieve the Flight speed caps is lying to the community. Take the same number of powers with less enhancement slots OR take less powers with the same number of enhancement slots. It is not a nerf. 

Edited by Bopper
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SwitchFade

SwitchFade

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it looks like I missed one of the most important things that the developers are doing, which is forcing people to take slots from other powers and make you put them in your current travel powers to reach the new adjusted maximums. 

 

I really hate being forced to change all my current slots so that we can be forced to slot the way the developers want. This is literally the same as them thinking that 1 slot of each type of enhancements is the way people should play. So this increasing numbers is literally so they can force people to respec to get their equivalent effectiveness.

 

We are all so overpowered because we want to fly/leap/speed/tp to mission doors faster with the new increase.

 

This is the kind of stupid and shortsighted 'forced' changes that upset people in MMOs. Or the engineers fix.

 

"We'll increase the maximums, but they'll have to slot more for it! This is an absolutely stellar idea that has no drawbacks and won't piss off any players, even though at least 25% to 75% of people will see that they no longer hit maximum speed any more! PERFECTION!"

 

((Thank you for actually pushing me to look at taking a break from COH for the first time in 18 years.))

Seriously, you went a bit to far with this one.

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Parabola

Parabola

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it looks like I missed one of the most important things that the developers are doing, which is forcing people to take slots from other powers and make you put them in your current travel powers to reach the new adjusted maximums. 

 

I really hate being forced to change all my current slots so that we can be forced to slot the way the developers want. This is literally the same as them thinking that 1 slot of each type of enhancements is the way people should play. So this increasing numbers is literally so they can force people to respec to get their equivalent effectiveness.

 

We are all so overpowered because we want to fly/leap/speed/tp to mission doors faster with the new increase.

 

This is the kind of stupid and shortsighted 'forced' changes that upset people in MMOs. Or the engineers fix.

 

"We'll increase the maximums, but they'll have to slot more for it! This is an absolutely stellar idea that has no drawbacks and won't piss off any players, even though at least 25% to 75% of people will see that they no longer hit maximum speed any more! PERFECTION!"

 

((Thank you for actually pushing me to look at taking a break from COH for the first time in 18 years.))

The point that you seem to be making over and over again is that in your opinion you either max out your travel speed or the whole thing is a waste of time. Hit the cap, whatever that might be, or don't bother. This ... isn't a point of view that is widely shared as you are seeing.

 

They are in effect raising the speed limit in coh and providing us with faster vehicles. Where before there wasn't any room for modifying our vehicles to go even faster there now is, if we want to invest we can get more out of them but it's entirely optional. If we don't want to invest we will at least be going as fast as before and in nearly every case (I think maybe all cases) we will be going faster.

 

I made a rather flippant suggestion earlier but it does have a point. If they were to provide a free power that would limit your movement cap to the unslotted maximum, so you could run it and 'be at the movement cap', would that make you happy? Is it simply a case of needing to see that blue number in the list?

 

Or is the problem really that you don't want anyone else to be able to be faster than you even though they will have to have invest slots in doing so?

Sovera

Sovera

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it looks like I missed one of the most important things that the developers are doing, which is forcing people to take slots from other powers and make you put them in your current travel powers to reach the new adjusted maximums. 

 

I really hate being forced to change all my current slots so that we can be forced to slot the way the developers want. This is literally the same as them thinking that 1 slot of each type of enhancements is the way people should play. So this increasing numbers is literally so they can force people to respec to get their equivalent effectiveness.

 

We are all so overpowered because we want to fly/leap/speed/tp to mission doors faster with the new increase.

 

This is the kind of stupid and shortsighted 'forced' changes that upset people in MMOs. Or the engineers fix.

 

"We'll increase the maximums, but they'll have to slot more for it! This is an absolutely stellar idea that has no drawbacks and won't piss off any players, even though at least 25% to 75% of people will see that they no longer hit maximum speed any more! PERFECTION!"

 

((Thank you for actually pushing me to look at taking a break from COH for the first time in 18 years.))

 

13 hours ago, Sovera said:

Yes you can hit your old speed cap with your old slotting. Your old speed was 72mph capped. You were unable to go faster than this. It involved using Fly + AB = two toggles. You now reach 87mph with Fly + EM = two toggles.

 

Taking a break is good. I've taken two since CoH HC returned. And it sounds like you need it too since you are in such a state that numbers are unable to break through, and explanations are hitting a wall.

 

Have a good break, Arthur.

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CaptainLupis

CaptainLupis

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it looks like I missed one of the most important things that the developers are doing, which is forcing people to take slots from other powers and make you put them in your current travel powers to reach the new adjusted maximums. 

 

I really hate being forced to change all my current slots so that we can be forced to slot the way the developers want. This is literally the same as them thinking that 1 slot of each type of enhancements is the way people should play. So this increasing numbers is literally so they can force people to respec to get their equivalent effectiveness.

 

We are all so overpowered because we want to fly/leap/speed/tp to mission doors faster with the new increase.

 

This is the kind of stupid and shortsighted 'forced' changes that upset people in MMOs. Or the engineers fix.

 

"We'll increase the maximums, but they'll have to slot more for it! This is an absolutely stellar idea that has no drawbacks and won't piss off any players, even though at least 25% to 75% of people will see that they no longer hit maximum speed any more! PERFECTION!"

 

((Thank you for actually pushing me to look at taking a break from COH for the first time in 18 years.))

You can get to 2% off the run cap without taking any extra powers or adding any slots, by using SS and sprint, with just some common IO investment, if you so desire. Damn those devs for forcing us to turn on an extra toggle to get there!

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DeepSky

DeepSky

Posted
Posted

Depending on build and tight slots some may not have room for the speed boost SOs or IOs in Flight and such what with muling KB protection or Gamblers. Temporarily they can still hit the cap though without investment.

 

Meanwhile Mystic Flight is just screwed.

 

Its hard to suggest 'well the enhancements should just do jack all like before', however.

 

Anyway I will just be slower a lot of the time (depending on situational benefits of the jump pack and teleporting) Deal with it team, I guess. Or kick me. Or teleport me yourself lol.

 

I will stay in Sorcery if they make RoP 30 seconds of negative resists, Mystic Flight speed halved and adding damage debuff, and the crappy absorption thing... well I mean what else can they even do to that? 

 

Wish the jump pack wasn't such an eyesore - in particular for non-tech types.

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America's Angel

America's Angel

Posted
Posted (edited)

Just tested out the new flight speeds with my tank. I wanted to see if the statement "flight on beta is as quick as flight + afterburner on live" was true.

 

This is the slotting I have:

 

Swift: 
lvl50 Flight IO +5'd

 

Fly: 
lvl50 Winter's Gift Fly Speed/end Catalysed
lvl50 Winter's Gift 20% Slow Resistance Catalysed

 

 

Flight + Afterburner on Live vs Flight on Beta

 

Here's the numbers:

 

image.png.2dc008436ebc97ec3920d1fbf1c81d16.png

 

So overall I'm seeing a reduction in my baseline flight speed vs live.

 

However, if we add in Afterburner at 33% uptime, my average flight speed on beta is 73.97mph. This is higher than live.

 

So it's it's not true in all instances that flight on beta is as quick as flight + afterburner on live. This statement likely is only true in those instances where people are slotting flight with a single +5 flight IO.

 

That said, a more accurate comparison would be...

 

 

Flight + Afterburner on Live vs Flight + Evasive Manuevers on Beta
 

image.png.450a4c2c084c8e72c44589d0cdad4faa.png

 

So overall I'm seeing an increase my baseline flight speed vs live.

 

Add in Afterburner at 33% uptime and my average flight speed on beta is 97.72ph. This is much higher than live. (Faster than the live superspeed cap!)

 

A huge buff. No need to respec at all if you are using Afterburner on live..

Edited by America's Angel
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Dahkness

Dahkness

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it looks like I missed one of the most important things that the developers are doing, which is forcing people to take slots from other powers and make you put them in your current travel powers to reach the new adjusted maximums. 

 

I really hate being forced to change all my current slots so that we can be forced to slot the way the developers want. This is literally the same as them thinking that 1 slot of each type of enhancements is the way people should play. So this increasing numbers is literally so they can force people to respec to get their equivalent effectiveness.

 

I don’t even take a travel power on live and I get to missions just fine. I don’t understand why the speed Increase makes you so mad. It allows people to build how they want. Have you tested it? Maybe a break to reflect on the changes will be good. 

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InvaderStych

InvaderStych

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

Well, it looks like I missed one of the most important things... <snip>

 

Actually yes, but not the one that you think.

 

The most important thing is that this game has enough character build permutations that we can all approach them in very different ways.

 

This change actually makes me want to use Travel Pools again.  Full Stop.  Before i27 Page 1, the only "travel" pool powers my toons ever took were Hasten and Combat Jumping.  After Page 1 CJ had to get dropped in favor of Combat Teleport.  Still no true travel powers on my toons.

 

After Page 2; Hover Melee is finally responsive enough - and with CT one can actually 1-button click into melee range, unlike the utterly, completely, hopelessly useless "Follow" button which never ever brought any of my toons during testing (Live and HC) into melee range AND if used on a target that was moving, never moved my toons at their full speed anyway - sorry, rambling, point is that once Page 2 goes live I'll likely be dropping an entire pool (usually Leadership) in order to have actual travel on my toons again.

 

Setting aside that people more intimately familiar with game mechanics than I have already given more than enough numbers to make their point; you've completely forgotten that while you're complaining about moving a slot or two around, some of us are re-thinking several power choices, and are actually sort of stoked about it as buying the same P2W/Temp travels all the time has gotten old across the past year.  Even if the result is I end up dropping whatever Leadership picks I cram into a build - thereby hypothetically "weakening" the build - the net gain in overall game enjoyment is worth the trade off, imo.

 

I say hypothetically, because I noticed that one toon I copied netted a little more +def when swapping into Flight, but that was a quick and dirty build and a little more +def at the cost of Perception from Tactics, or more rarely +dmg from Assault.  Yeah, idk, I'm not savvy enough to make that call.

 

All that said, yeah, take a break bud.  I found HC last March and a couple months ago took a bit of a break myself - not out of frustration, but a break all the same.  A brief reset of context from time to time tends to keep me closer to "level."

 

Or whatever terminology works there.

 

Edited by InvaderStych
parenthetical clean-up
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siolfir

siolfir

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, America&#x27;s Angel said:

So it's it's not true in all instances that flight on beta is as quick as flight + afterburner on live. This statement likely is only true in those instances where people are slotting flight with a single +5 flight IO.

Yeah, that was brought up and disproven pages ago and got buried under the rest of the back-and-forth. It doesn't seem to be the intent as much as it was an artifact of cleaning up the Flight speed buffs that you saw: note that on live you have four flight speed buffs from Fly including a negative one, and only one flight speed buff on beta. 

 

After everything is said and done, Fly on beta is still faster than Fly on live (due to the unmodified cap on live) and Fly + Evasive on beta is faster than Fly + Afterburner on live. So the same investment on powers nets you more speed.

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America's Angel

America's Angel

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, siolfir said:

Yeah, that was brought up and disproven pages ago and got buried under the rest of the back-and-forth. It doesn't seem to be the intent as much as it was an artifact of cleaning up the Flight speed buffs that you saw: note that on live you have four flight speed buffs from Fly including a negative one, and only one flight speed buff on beta. 

 

After everything is said and done, Fly on beta is still faster than Fly on live (due to the unmodified cap on live) and Fly + Evasive on beta is faster than Fly + Afterburner on live. So the same investment on powers nets you more speed.

Yeah exactly. Anyone complaining about "needing to respec" is mistaken. (Fortunately!)

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arthurh35353

arthurh35353

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, America&#x27;s Angel said:

Yeah exactly. Anyone complaining about "needing to respec" is mistaken. (Fortunately!)

Yeah, glad they "moved" afterburner into Flight so I can respec out of Evasive Maneuvers and keep at the flight caps aI had with flight without having to invest/respec slots!

 

Oh, that didn't happen. They moved Afterburner into Flight and I know have to change my build because I have to either add slots or keep a power that I no longer want.

 

That's a fact and that's the problem. If I have the same slots in flight I should be at the normal caps, even if those normal caps are now higher.

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PeregrineFalcon

PeregrineFalcon

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

That's a fact and that's the problem. If I have the same slots in flight I should be at the normal caps, even if those normal caps are now higher.

Quick question. Will your character fly at the same speed, or faster, using just Fly once this goes live?

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DeepSky

DeepSky

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ScarySai said:

 

But you won't be, though.

 

I mean comparatively to others, using Mystic Flight. That is already true on Live sometimes, there will just be even more of a descrepancy. Which is even the design goal of making 'pure travel powers' faster than other options.

 

Inside mission instances is likely a different story of course.

spacer.png

 

 

macskull

macskull

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, DeepSky said:

 

I mean comparatively to others, using Mystic Flight. That is already true on Live sometimes, there will just be even more of a descrepancy. Which is even the design goal of making 'pure travel powers' faster than other options.

 

Inside mission instances is likely a different story of course.

Don't forget you also get Translocation, which allows you to travel as fast as ~106MPH (based on going 350ft every 2.244 seconds), faster if your build has any range bonus at all.

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Flintlock Burnfur

Flintlock Burnfur

Posted
Posted

Here's the thing.

 

My main is at 50, and while doesn't have the flight pool, does have super speed.  And concealment.  So I'm really interested in these changes.

 

Because my character is 50, and has almost maxed out all the Incarnate powers.  And has over 1000 badges.

 

So I'm gonna use the second and third builds as an added bonus for some of these changes.  Because it's something new for my level 50 to work for.

 

Is her current build pretty good?  Yes it is, she can stand up to purple elite bosses without much problem.  It's a challenge, but she can solo those dudes really well.  And these changes will allow me to create the second and third builds on her character to change things up.  Is it gonna take inf?  Oh, damn straight it will.  But I'm willing to do TFs, Mothership Raids and Hami Raids in order to get the inf so I can get the IOs in place for those builds.

 

Because I want something to do with my level 50.  I like her.  Not only is she a great build, but she's fun to rp with.  I enjoy playing my character, and any changes the devs make will allow me to keep seeing what she's got and enjoy everything coming up.

 

And seriously, super speed and ninja run together will look AWESOME!

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SwitchFade

SwitchFade

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

Yeah, glad they "moved" afterburner into Flight so I can respec out of Evasive Maneuvers and keep at the flight caps aI had with flight without having to invest/respec slots!

 

Oh, that didn't happen. They moved Afterburner into Flight and I know have to change my build because I have to either add slots or keep a power that I no longer want.

 

That's a fact and that's the problem. If I have the same slots in flight I should be at the normal caps, even if those normal caps are now higher.

Arthur, I'll try this once, I hope you're reading...

 

I think you're mistaken, if you don't focus on the names of the powers...

 

Old fly+old AB=New fly+EM

 

There will essentially be no change for you, because EM does what old AB does.

 

If you change nothing, the net change is zero.

 

On top of this you get a temp boost that puts you faster than live for short bursts.

 

Let me be clear, if this goes live, you will go just as fast as now, as EM is TECHNICALLY the old AB for speed boosting. You will ALSO get the option of going EVEN FASTER.

 

On the seriouslies. Try it.

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arcane

arcane

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Posted

Clarifying question most likely already addressed somewhere in this very long thread...: the moving of Afterburner to a pop up tray power... the concealment changes... are we losing an LotG slot anywhere here or do those pools still hold the same number of LotG slottable powers?

 

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