Can you build around pool powers as main attacks?

[Mashugana]

Are Pool Powers like Arcane Bolt as good as the main archetype powers? Can I make a pool power one of my main attacks? Or are they much weaker than anything I could get from my AT?

 

Some of the pool powers are really cool - I'd love to try some characters that use them - but I am not sure how the math works 🙂

[Greycat]

Yes. "Pool boy" builds have been done since live.

[TheZag]

The best pool powers are about as good as most ATs tier 2 attack if you arent using procs.  I dont depend on pool power attacks but a few character builds use them instead of the T 1-2 attacks in their rotation.

 

I have considered making a all pool power character but the project remains un-started.

[Luminara]

I use pool attacks on several characters.  On the original servers, I played a Kin/Elec defender who used Air Superiority/Flurry/Jump Kick as her attack chain.

 

Pool it up.  They work just fine.

[0th Power]

Air superiority is my favorite pool attack and if I have room, I pick it

[Bill Z Bubba]

Ran a fighting/shield brute for quite a while until I got bored with it. Boxing, Kick and Cross Punch work just fine as a stand-alone attack chain.

 

But....

 

39 minutes ago, 0th Power said:

Air superiority is my favorite pool attack and if I have room, I pick it

 

I love this attack as well and don't take it nearly as often as I'd like. Nothin like doublepunchin another flyer to the ground.

[Aurora_Girl]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

I use pool attacks on several characters.  On the original servers, I played a Kin/Elec defender who used Air Superiority/Flurry/Jump Kick as her attack chain.

 

Pool it up.  They work just fine.

 

I distinctly remember that. 

[Aurora_Girl]

And it must be noted that AirSup's animation while flying is highly appreciated. 

[Shenanigunner]

I find Arcane Bolt, well slotted, to be a very useful power for my E-blaster. One more slightly slow but very powerful ranged hit, with damage outside the primary power set.

 

I haven't taken too many pool attack powers, though. Most seem... wonky.

[Six-Six]

As Grey Cat mentioned, there are players who do the pool boy challenge. As soon as the pool powers are available to you (Level 4) you're not allowed to take any powers other than the tertiary pool powers. I finished one a few months ago and I'm working on a new one... preferably with a different set of pool powers than the last one. Some of them are quite strong, like Sorcery's Arcane Bolt and Enflame. Presence's Invoke Panic is also quite usefulThe one I'm doing now chose Force of Will, and I must say the animation is a bit long, hopefully it will earn its way with procs. Other non-attacks like Unleash Potential and Unrelenting are also favourites.

[Without_Pause]

Depends. I think some of them are worth taking as noted above. I did look into trying some out and came away less than impressed with Project Will and Wall of Force due to their animation times. They are straight up worse than anything from Psi Blast. I was going to use them with a Psionic melee character but decided against it after playing around with them.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Without_Pause

[Shenanigunner]

Sorcery would be a better pool if Arcane Bolt was paired with a hyper-speed run power.

 

Yep.

 

Usain Bolt.

[Rishidian]

I tend to use Arcane Bolt (I think this is the right one) as a single Mob puller.  It gets the attention of 1 mob instead of the group (usually), like Taunt does.  Helps me not get overwhelmed.  If I have another low damage ranged attack (a pisser, as I call it), I can fire both off at least once and knock their hit points down a little.  

 

I like it's KB affect.  That is useful.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Rishidian
Additional thoughts

[Without_Pause]

5 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Depends. I think some of them are worth taking as noted above. I did look into trying some out and came away less than impressed with Project Will and Wall of Force due to their animation times. They are straight up worse than anything from Psi Blast. I was going to use them with a Psionic melee character but decided against it after playing around with them.

Case in point:

Project Will does 1.16 * Ranged damage. Has a recharge of 5 seconds and has an end use of 7.54. Cast time is 2.244 with Arcanatime factored in.

Arcane Bolt does 1.54 * Ranged damage. Has a recharge time of 7 seconds and an end cost of 9.62. Cast time is 1.98 with Arcanatime factored in.

 

Recharge and end cost can be slotted for and thus reduced down. The difference in damage is going to only get worse. If Project Will is to be the quicker attack, then it should have a quicker animation time.

[Gwyrddu]

I have a gravity/ff controller and arcane bolt with its bonus and containment gives a little better ST damage then propel or lift, even though one of gravity's big thing is their single target damage. Likewise on my rad/elec brute I replaced devastating blow with a faster and thus better cross punch even though the former is a T8 attack. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples, but the point is that not only are pool powers viable, but in certain circumstances they can outperform primary or secondary alternatives. I'm sure it's a fine balancing line to have pool powers be good but not so good that people ignore their primary and secondaries for them.

[arcane]

Cross Punch is actually a reeeally good attack when you combine its already decent stats with its ability to slot Fury of the Gladiator, Armageddon, and Force Feedback in part of an S/T attack chain. Two of my better tankers in terms of S/T DPS use it constantly.

 

Arcane Bolt is also very good but a little hard for it to be competitive with other powers when Arcane Power is not proccing, so I am less likely to use it in a constant chain and more likely to keep it next to my chain and wait for the yellow circle.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by arcane

[Bopper]

4 hours ago, Mashugana said:

Are Pool Powers like Arcane Bolt as good as the main archetype powers? Can I make a pool power one of my main attacks? Or are they much weaker than anything I could get from my AT?

 

Some of the pool powers are really cool - I'd love to try some characters that use them - but I am not sure how the math works 🙂

Pool powers tend to follow the same design formula as AT powersets, but with some exceptions.

You don't get an Endurance discount on these attacks. You know how Masterminds complain that their attacks cost more endurance than other ATs? That same non-discount is applied to pool powers.

A lot of pool powers have short recharges with longish animation times, whichakes them low damage and lower DPA.

AT inherents are sometimes not recognized by pool powers. So for example, scrapper crits don't get buffed by their ATO proc. 

 

That being said, some good attacks do exist. Full synergy cross punch is fantastic and full synergy boxing is ok. Arcane Bolt is also decent with a mechanism for crits which is great.

[Carnifax]

Arcane is great for a controller. Enflame ain't bad either.

 

My most "pooly" character is probably my Ice/Traps/Teleport/Sorcery controller (who also took 4 powers out of my Earth epic).

 

Cross punch is excellent for non-Stalker Ice meleers as an alternative to Greater Ice Sword.

[arcane]

Wasn’t thinking of Enflame but I love that power 🙂

[Peacemoon]

I think the better discussion is what AT to pick. 
 

Personally I would avoid blasters and scrappers as the alternative play style will always be weaker. I would go for something like a Controller or MM, where you could actually play differently and still be pretty good at what your AT does best.
 

I think going for the entire fighting pool might be fun. As a Thugs/ MM you could get quite a realistic fighter with pistol attacking coupled with fighting attacks. Plus a secondary that adds whatever flavour you want.

[the1egend1ives]

5 hours ago, Mashugana said:

Some of the pool powers are really cool - I'd love to try some characters that use them - but I am not sure how the math works 🙂

Really? Most pool powers I"m forced to take just so I can grab a LotG mule, and I never touch them after that. I used to think i could use some of the fighting powers to play as a brawler, but they don't feel as nice as a scrapper or brute.

[Redletter]

6 hours ago, Six-Six said:

As Grey Cat mentioned, there are players who do the pool boy challenge. As soon as the pool powers are available to you (Level 4) you're not allowed to take any powers other than the tertiary pool powers. I finished one a few months ago and I'm working on a new one... preferably with a different set of pool powers than the last one. Some of them are quite strong, like Sorcery's Arcane Bolt and Enflame. Presence's Invoke Panic is also quite usefulThe one I'm doing now chose Force of Will, and I must say the animation is a bit long, hopefully it will earn its way with procs. Other non-attacks like Unleash Potential and Unrelenting are also favourites.

 

Force of Will was my MAIN offensive attack power on my Mind/Pain troller - it's a VERY lackluster power, given the animation is phenominally long for the pitiful damage it deals and the neglible secondary effects it offers. It's not even like, a CHEAP and/or FAST crappy power. I took it because as a mentalist, Lift didnt appeal to me from the primary set. I would REALLY like to see that power get a buff to SOMETHING, because Arcane Bolt is equally as available and has SO much going for it by comparison.

 

3 hours ago, the1egend1ives said:

Really? Most pool powers I"m forced to take just so I can grab a LotG mule, and I never touch them after that. I used to think i could use some of the fighting powers to play as a brawler, but they don't feel as nice as a scrapper or brute.

Really? Because Boxing, Kick, and Crosspunch are very good melee attacks on their own, you can quite literally take EVERY power in that set and use it to round out the needs of a chain and- Oh! That explains it, yeah, Fighting (or any other pool powers) are NOT intended to be a FULL replacement for an entire Class of character. Theyre there to give you things you ma not get out of your primary and secondary sets (ranged attacks, support powers, melee options, etc).

[Hardboiled Hero]

8 minutes ago, Redletter said:

Really? Because Boxing, Kick, and Crosspunch are very good melee attacks on their own, you can quite literally take EVERY power in that set and use it to round out the needs of a chain and- Oh! That explains it, yeah, Fighting (or any other pool powers) are NOT intended to be a FULL replacement for an entire Class of character. Theyre there to give you things you ma not get out of your primary and secondary sets (ranged attacks, support powers, melee options, etc).

 

  I usually appreciate the fighting pool on my Sentinels.  It helps my AR characters feel like they also know some basic army combatives or something.  Notice also that pool powers can't replace the best AT powers.  Melee powers from Brute, scrapper etc.. will always be better than most fighting pool powers, but even then you can often find one pool power that fits your chain better.  Likewise, a controller may find good use for the offensive pool powers, but they wouldn't really use pool control powers.

[roleki]

I don't consider it a "pool boy" build but I've got a melee-ish Sonic/Rad/Dark Corruptor that took all 5 powers from Fighting and all five powers from Dark Mastery.   It's a weird build, but between all the mez, +Dam, -Res and Scourge, it ends up being a little truck.

[DarknessEternal]

21 hours ago, Without_Pause said:

Case in point:

Project Will does 1.16 * Ranged damage. Has a recharge of 5 seconds and has an end use of 7.54. Cast time is 2.244 with Arcanatime factored in.

Arcane Bolt does 1.54 * Ranged damage. Has a recharge time of 7 seconds and an end cost of 9.62. Cast time is 1.98 with Arcanatime factored in.

 

Recharge and end cost can be slotted for and thus reduced down. The difference in damage is going to only get worse. If Project Will is to be the quicker attack, then it should have a quicker animation time.

Please become in charge of power balancing and apply this idea to the entire game.  Animation times need to start being a factor in power balance.