Dark Armor is the worst

[luxlorica]

Why is Dark Armor such a punishment?

 

I am running a Dark/Dark and I have made it up to about lvl 20, mostly solo. The End costs are unbelievable. Honestly I can’t figure out where it is all going. The numbers don’t seem that extreme on paper, but in practice the blue goes down the toilet instantly.

 

I can run it full for about ten seconds until its dead. Normally I just run Death Shroud and Dark embrace because anything more and it will not have a hope of lasting through a fight.

 

Endurance mod you say? Yep got it, lvl 20 crafted IO.

 

Endurance reduction you say? Yep, I have lvl 20 crafted IOs in Every. Single. Slot.

 

Normally I just IO the first three with End Reductions and most defense sets like that just fine when leveling. Endurance loss is small and I am good for a long time of moderate to constant use.

 

But with this one I’m scraping for every drop of end reduction so its in every slot and it does virtually nothing.

 

I can’t run most of the defenses which means I get stunned and held a lot.

Ah, but then I turn on the Psi resist, cool. Now I have about 12 seconds to kill everything before end is gone.

 

I could turn off the Damage Aura and then everything takes even longer to kill and I run out again.

 

I can also just turn off all the defensive powers and watch the green fly off the bar until I die with a quarter blue left.

 

Sometimes I just have to run away and rest. I definitely have to rest between every group. Occasionally I just fight to the last blue, watch all my defenses drop and keep fighting as my green drains away if I think I can kill it before I run out of health.

 

Often I make it through a fight with a sliver of health and no end left, have to rest up and toggle some defenses back on. Not all of them, of course, because that’s just crazy.

 

It reminds me a great deal of having no defense at all.

 

Oh, and of course Dark Armor lets you spend most of your time on your back or flipping around in the air like a clothespin.

 

You would think that a set with such a massive and ridiculously common hole as knockdown/knockback would make up for that in some way. But nope, not dark armor.

 

In return for letting you spend all your time crowd controlled it offers a few seconds of defense before it deletes your endurance after which it just turns your powers off anyway.

 

Are there other armors with massive commonly used holes that keep a character from responding while rendering them essentially defenseless within seconds?

 

It seems the only way to run the armor at all is to have full ageless and probably full Cardiac for ageless downtime.

 

I think Dark Armor just needs training wheels until deep into 50 and other sets will make it look like a hot dripping trash bag until then.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Theft of Essence Chance for +End in Dark Regeneration

Miracle +Rec, Numina +Regen/Rec, Panacea +HP/End, PrevMed Chance for +Absorb in Health

4 Perf Shifters in Stamina

2 Perf Shifters (Endmod and Chance for +End,) Regen Tissue +Regen in Physical Perfection

2 50+5 Recred in Conserve Power

 

And I STILL had to take Alpha Cardiac Core Paragon

 

Why Mids is showing my KB protection at 7.33 when I have both the Steadfast and Blessing of the Zephyr +KB IOs is unknown to me. Should be 8pts.

 

Soooo, yea.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, luxlorica said:

Why is Dark Armor such a punishment?

 

I am running a Dark/Dark and I have made it up to about lvl 20, mostly solo. The End costs are unbelievable. Honestly I can’t figure out where it is all going. The numbers don’t seem that extreme on paper, but in practice the blue goes down the toilet instantly.

 

I can run it full for about ten seconds until its dead. Normally I just run Death Shroud and Dark embrace because anything more and it will not have a hope of lasting through a fight.

 

Endurance mod you say? Yep got it, lvl 20 crafted IO.

 

Endurance reduction you say? Yep, I have lvl 20 crafted IOs in Every. Single. Slot.

 

Normally I just IO the first three with End Reductions and most defense sets like that just fine when leveling. Endurance loss is small and I am good for a long time of moderate to constant use.

 

But with this one I’m scraping for every drop of end reduction so its in every slot and it does virtually nothing.

 

I can’t run most of the defenses which means I get stunned and held a lot.

Ah, but then I turn on the Psi resist, cool. Now I have about 12 seconds to kill everything before end is gone.

 

I could turn off the Damage Aura and then everything takes even longer to kill and I run out again.

 

I can also just turn off all the defensive powers and watch the green fly off the bar until I die with a quarter blue left.

 

Sometimes I just have to run away and rest. I definitely have to rest between every group. Occasionally I just fight to the last blue, watch all my defenses drop and keep fighting as my green drains away if I think I can kill it before I run out of health.

 

Often I make it through a fight with a sliver of health and no end left, have to rest up and toggle some defenses back on. Not all of them, of course, because that’s just crazy.

 

It reminds me a great deal of having no defense at all.

 

Oh, and of course Dark Armor lets you spend most of your time on your back or flipping around in the air like a clothespin.

 

You would think that a set with such a massive and ridiculously common hole as knockdown/knockback would make up for that in some way. But nope, not dark armor.

 

In return for letting you spend all your time crowd controlled it offers a few seconds of defense before it deletes your endurance after which it just turns your powers off anyway.

 

Are there other armors with massive commonly used holes that keep a character from responding while rendering them essentially defenseless within seconds?

 

It seems the only way to run the armor at all is to have full ageless and probably full Cardiac for ageless downtime.

 

I think Dark Armor just needs training wheels until deep into 50 and other sets will make it look like a hot dripping trash bag until then.

 

Try this build.  It runs pretty smooth for me.  One of my toughest tankers.

 

Omega Infinitum - Tanker (Dark Armor - Dark Melee) (1).mxd

[Erratic1]

Could be worse. You could be trying Dark Armor/Rad Melee. 😈

 

 

 

[Six-Six]

I can't begin to assume that what I do would work for your style of play, but here are a few things that work for me. I have a few /Dark Brutes, Scrappers, and Stalkers (sorry i don't play Tanks). And while you may claim that it's not the best armour, it's definitely not as bad as you describe it. both my personal experiences and those of my friends have been quite favourable. In fact, I tried /Dark because of a friend's recommendation that "it is da bomb." In any case:

1) at level 20, SOs give a higher percentage than IOs. I usually swap them at 30 when they start to even out, favouring the IOs if I want to save inf. Sometimes, I wait until 40s or 45 since my toons can pretty much pay their way up until 50. (also, at level 20+, my toons regardless of AT have at least 2 SOs slotted in stamina)

2) just because a power's available doesn't mean I pick it. depending on my level, I tend to look at the end consumption of toggles. Dark tends to have quite a few. Even if the power sounds awesome, it doesn't do me any good if my stamina can't keep up with it. So I end up postponing some of the end guzzlers until I have my recovery sorted out.

3) toggles cost end. Tough and Weave and Leadership are common culprits. Dark has a few. on lower levels, I make sure to dedicate a slot (sometimes 2) for end reduction SOs and leave it at that until I have the slots and IOs/set bonuses to address them.

4) on any toon, I make it a point to have my consumption to recovery ratio at 1:2. have a peek at your combat attributes. try to get your recovery up to 2x or more than what you're using up--that number is you just standing still. Also, +max end bonuses and end discount bonuses help. A bigger blue bar means your getting a bigger chunk back with every percentage.

5) finally, be a little patient. At level 20 you barely have any slots to do anything about your problems even if you wanted to. It's ok to drop a knee from time to time to catch your breath. things will get better as you ding up the levels. I'm not an insp-popper myself, but they do help in your time of need. carry a few blues to get you through the day.

And a last note on style of play. You don't have to go Leroy Jenkins all the time. Yes, i know it's fun, but dying too much surely negates that. Try a bit of strategy and cunning. Again, this works for me, and may not suit you at all. 

[starvingduck]

Also, just to note, at level 20, single-origin(so's) are better than io's.

[ZorkNemesis]

2 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Could be worse. You could be trying Dark Armor/Rad Melee. 😈

 

You joke, but I love that combo on my Brute.  A bit end hungry but hits like a truck and things just melt with all the damage auras and Contaminated splash damage.

 

Some extra advice for OP, also look into temporary powers for Recovery boosting.  Recovery Serums from P2W give a large recovery boost for 4 minutes on a 10 minute cooldown (affected by recharge buffs) that mostly negate any endurance issues unless you're fighting Carnies, Freak Stunners, or Malta.  A base empowerment station can hook you up with a 90 minute (in-game) recovery increase in exchange for some basic salvage.  If you have inf to spare, the Survival Amplifier from P2W (or Super Packs if you're lucky) will also add more recovery as long as they remain active (up to 8 hours in-game).  Since you're still level 20, try to get into a Drowning in Blood group as well; completing that trial will let you get another recovery bonus that lasts until level 30 or 7 days in-game, whichever comes first.

 

Also consider logging off in an Arena for a while.  The Duelist Dayjob is a +Max End that lasts up to 2 hours (though logging out for a day gives about 10 minutes) and since recovery is percentage based any increases to max end will also increase your recovery in a sense that you get more back per tick.  The same applies to end bonuses from sets and accolades.

 

And as for KB protection: If you have a travel power or a power that accepts Universal Travel, drop a Blessing of the Zephyr KB Protection in there to cover 98% of your knockback issues.  Ideally try to get more than Mag 10 if you plan to be the tank eventually, but Mag 4 is enough for nearly everything, with only late game things like Fake Nemeses and Diabolique presenting actual issues.  Steadfast Protection has a KB protection alongside the Res/Def you'll probably slot, Cloak of Darkness can accept the Karma KB enhancement, and Fury of the Gladiator has Mag 3 protection with 3 slots; you'll probably put the -Res proc in Death Shroud unless you'd prefer to put it in Soul Drain but I personally prefer to drop it into damage auras when I can.

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by ZorkNemesis

[Parabola]

Dark regeneration is often a culprit for end problems that get blamed on the toggles. Unenhanced it costs a third of your endurance bar to fire. But, it is also arguably the most important power in dark armour so you want it, and want to use it. Therefore it needs heavy investment. You will want lots of end reduction enhancement and the theft of essence +end proc. Hit enough enemies and it becomes end positive to use.

 

Other advice is to look at cloak of fear as a fantastic opportunity to take a different power. It has rubbish accuracy and offers little return for the end you burn running it. In early levels you don't need to run cloak of darkness either as you won't have much else to stack the defence with so concentrate on the resist toggles. Also try to always run death shroud. Yes, it has a high end cost but if you get into the habit of letting it whittle down the last sliver of health on enemies rather than using an extra attack you will save end in the long run.

 

On the subject of attacks. Always slot your attacks for end reduction if you are struggling for end. Your attack chain will likely burn far more end than your toggles will. As you are running solo you can set the difficulty to have large numbers of easier enemies. That will give you lots of inspirations that you can convert into reds to fuel your damage which will make up for having less damage slotted.

[luxlorica]

I admit the set looks amazing on paper, fantastic resist values, shrugging off psi like its nothing, great opportunity for defense. The fine print, of course, is that you won’t be able to use these amazing defenses most of the time.

 

I will have to get the KB protection IO of course. This set makes it mandatory. I generally run hover (slotted for end reduction) for the extra defense so at least I am not getting shoved down the hallways, I’m just whirling around in mid air.

 

I originally had this character with Rad Armor and it was so good, but I hated the visuals and I did really want the purity of Dark Armor which is both theme and function for this char. The monumental gap between them them is shocking though. I feel like I traded in my Toyota for a Schwinn.

 

10 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Try this build.  It runs pretty smooth for me.  One of my toughest tankers.

 

Hey there! Big Fan of your work. This is the build I started with. I did modify a few placements like pulling Touch of Fear to 20 and Shadow Maul to 8. I also smoothed out the slot placement to have more slots available at level.

 

I did notice you had only a single slot in stamina and I may have to change that, at least for leveling. I may have to pull two slots from somewhere else to fortify stamina. It doesn't matter much at the moment because literally every slot is filled with endurance reduction so stealing from a five or six slot power to build up stamina won't matter that much until its time to respend into 50.

 

3 hours ago, Parabola said:

Dark regeneration is often a culprit for end problems that get blamed on the toggles

 

I don't have that one quite yet but I already know that it is a huge hog. I'm not even complaining about Dark Regen. As an "I win" button it is what it is and I accept that fully. If I want to be immortal then its gonna cost something. I get that. I'm not even saying that the powers should be free or something silly like that. Its just that many of the armor sets I have tried have been quite manageable with slotting and IOs and Dark Armor is so far to the opposite of that, its really surprising.

 

5 hours ago, Six-Six said:

And a last note on style of play. You don't have to go Leroy Jenkins all the time. Yes, i know it's fun, but dying too much surely negates that. Try a bit of strategy and cunning. Again, this works for me, and may not suit you at all. 

 

Its a fair point. I do tend to set and forget. Run everything and damn the torpedoes (and I don't even HAVE torpedoes).

 

Since I have downgraded to the kids table of running at 2/-1, I attack for a bit and then just stop. I sit there, doing nothing, while the blues do their thing and just wait for end.

 

Doesn't feel very heroic, but it eventually lets me attack again without dropping everything.

 

I guess I was just unprepared for how radically different Dark Armor is in terms of management as compared to other sets that I have tried.

[Mopery]

Some people think cucumbers taste better pickled.

[Troo]

12 hours ago, luxlorica said:

Why is Dark Armor such a punishment?

 

Were you intended to run all the toggles all the time? No. (this is the truth about Dark Armor)

 

Dark is the swiss army knife of armors. Use too many features at once and it c a n  b e  c u m b e r s o m e..

 

Some of the toggles could be considered situational. Some of the toggles pair better with some secondary sets than others.

 

With significant investment and tactics we can run all the toggles we want.

 

[luxlorica]

33 minutes ago, Troo said:

With significant investment and tactics we can run all the toggles we want.

Agreed. I think Cardiac and Ageless would finally make this feel heroic.

[arcane]

Dark Armor rules tho. And you don’t need Cardiac if you have Ageless Core.

Edited August 16, 2022 by arcane

[Six-Six]

3 hours ago, luxlorica said:

Since I have downgraded to the kids table of running at 2/-1, I attack for a bit and then just stop. I sit there, doing nothing, while the blues do their thing and just wait for end.

I didn't mean to lower your settings, though that works too. at 20, my broots can usually handle +1x2-4 or +2x1. In fact, with Dark Armour, you want more bodies to feed off form. What I meant was trying to outwit the AI like taunting them to a nice little bunch then Bam with one shot or something. if +0 or -1 doesn't make you feel heroic, then you're defeating the purpose of the game, which is to be a hero. Go crank up the difficulty and try to overcome your challenges. that's what a hero does. 😃

[Warboss]

12 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Could be worse. You could be trying Dark Armor/Rad Melee. 😈

 

 

 

 

Or DA/Stone Melee (which really hates Endurance. But if you're an experienced Tanker, I encourage you to try this out).

Or DA/Ice (however with the changes to IM, it's not that bad anymore. In fact Frost is actually a good power now).

Or DA/TW ...

Or, well actually, DA just hates End...

[WanderingAries]

Heh, my first Alt was Fire/Fire/Fire Troller and second Dark/Dark/Dark Scrapper

[Bill Z Bubba]

46 minutes ago, Warboss said:

Or DA/Stone Melee (which really hates Endurance. But if you're an experienced Tanker, I encourage you to try this out).

 

That's what mine is.

[Infinitum]

Aside here - IMO one of the very quaint few areas Champions Online got it better than this game was endurance management - it had a 1 attack dedicated to being an energy builder - all you had to do was mix it into your attack chain any way you wanted to generate endurance however you wanted.  

 

The other was blocking. Would still get damage but it was reduced.

 

In the between snap in the void I played champions to get my fix - but I dropped it like a bad habit as soon as I discovered the new world.

[BrandX]

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Went Musculature Radial myself.

 

It's been awhile, but I don't recall the end build being all that bad on the end in the end, however things like the +END Proc in Dark Regen is really good!  I had that in slot 1 as soon as I got the power 😛

[Psyonico]

5 hours ago, arcane said:

Dark Armor rules tho. And you don’t need Cardiac if you have Ageless Core.

Yes, but Ageless Radial is better for dark because there's no DDR in the set.  Unless you forgo defense in your build, radial is the better choice, making cardiac the best alpha choice.

[PyroNugget]

this seems a bit extreme even for dark armor.

because i TOTALLY never do this(i do,alot) turn sprint off and put an upside down thumb tack on the key so you dont hit it on accident!

 

and are you really just slotting END reducers?!..cmon man.. thats paying 5 bucks to save 50cents every swing! slot ACC and DMG--a kismet at least-every miss is wasted END

 

and i dont know how married to hover/fly you are but the Force of Will pool gets you the jump that you can slot a KB reduce in at lvl 4 and at 20 take unleash potential--will solve all your worries(DEF,REGEN and END)-for 60 seconds- also is a spot for LotG mule --like having a nice T9 at lvl 20

[Yomo Kimyata]

21 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

Could be worse. You could be trying Dark Armor/Rad Melee. 😈

 

 

 

 

Why would anyone do such an inane thing?!?!?

 

 

[ThrillMill]

I went Dark/Savage and there's zero endurance issues. Savage is so end friendly is completely negates DA's endurance woes. Consider a re-roll? 

[smnolimits41]

you do realize that a set like Inv has 3 toggles, where as Dark has, what 8 toggles, plus most sets need tough and weave, and manuevers, etc

[smnolimits41]

another thing i did while playing Fearsome Justice a Dark/Dark Scrapper was to rest between groups, hope that helps.