My I/O Experience

[Xeres]

I had a similar outlook as you, Abraxus, on this.  Was it worth the time, resources, planning, etc that was necessary to plan out (or research) a proper build and outfit it?  My initial thought was no, that even having level 50 "regular" I/Os would be plenty good enough.  And, for the most part it is.

 

But after starting attuned IOs on two characters that I am leveling and noting the difference in the performance, I now give my leveling characters IO sets as I level (with some help from my alts) - as long as I have a good build to go by.  I do it to a point - the IO sets that I can actually equip based on level.

 

So I do think it's worth it but that's just my opinion.  Play how you want.

 

[MunkiLord]

4 hours ago, Abraxus said:

For me, it really comes down to how I want to spend what little time I have to play.  I love getting the most bang for the buck, and the two weeks it took me to assemble everything I needed for this one build just kind of put me off doing this again any time soon.  Now, admittedly, I'm probably not the most efficient at the process, and it might get easier with each iteration.  Guess I'd have to put that to the test in order to really know.

I think it will generally get easier/less time intensive the more you do it. But making an absolutely maxed character is never what I consider quick since towards the end of the process we're talking about tenths of a percentage here and there. I generally have a few go to sets and unique IOs I use on most to all characters so that makes it a bit quicker. For general level 50s I'll try to get 50-80% recharge and 20-30% defense to a category or two and that is more than enough for most content. If after the big bump that gives me I really like the character, then I'll look into really tweaking the build to maximize everything.

 

Also sometimes I'll just take a build directly from the forums and adjust a few things here and there to my liking and go with it. That saves a ton of time, and quite often gives me a new way to approach my goals.

[Queen Nefertiti]

Personally I IO everything but I don't craft them. The AH is swimming in enhancements and the cost to time ratio is far better buying ready made. There are a few not available which I craft, but to be absolutely honest, apart from a few good purple sets at 20 million a pop, most are well within the purchase range at level 50. I don't try to pimp out my alt immediately but I do go shopping when I hit 100 million inf. The thing that takes longest is fully kitting out an alt with standard level 50 IO's when I hit level 47. That can take a good half hour. After that it's a matter of minutes. You can spend hours and hours on crafting, but you don't need to. If I get a purple recipe drop I see what the recipe goes for and the crafted enhancement goes for. Then I decide if it's worth selling as is or quickly buying the components and making it. If it's only a million or so it's not worth the time to craft, but sometimes it's the difference between a few thousand and a few million. I play the AH, but not to the point it takes up all my time. I'd rather just play the game and if some nice person has already done the work for me then I'm going to take advantage. They get the inf and I get the enhancement in about the same time as buying an SO from a vendor.

[MrSnottyPants]

I enjoy IOs, but also don't have the inclination/time to plot out full builds.  So I just craft them when I find the recipe and salvage.  I've got a dozen Alts, and usually someone can use whatever I find - the rest I sell.  I'm probably more exited than most when I see an orange salvage/recipe drop 😁

 

I do craft and pass them through AH to get attuned versions.

 

I figure, if someone hits 50 I can sell and work out a real build.  Until then, I get the enjoyment of finding stuff.

[EmmySky]

I never did IOs on live because....if I want to craft I will play runescape or make a quilt!  But very friendly people on help channel helped me out to understand them better and some other people helped me with a couple uber builds for my tank/farmer. 

 

The sets and bonuses still confuse me but the regular crafted IOS that you dont have to replace everytime you turn around really have caught my eye.  

 

I am thinking for most of my toons I will just slot with crafted IOS and as each approaches 50 I will see if there are gapping holes in their builds that need to be plugged with a set or bonus stuff.  I think that is a nice middle of the road between my former SO only builds and my fully tricked out (with 2 builds) tank.  

 

You play how you're comfortable and have fun.  If speccing isnt your thing then dont do it.  I am learning about it but its confusing so my input is to enjoy your game your way!

Edited October 15, 2019 by EmmySky

[roleki]

8 hours ago, molten_dragon said:

Good point.  I don't think I've ever bothered doing multiple IO builds for a single character before.  Never seen a whole lot of point really.

I don't usually use alt slots, but I did for my en/en blaster so I could have one build for teams and another build for soloing.  And I had such fun with that, I made the third slot a blapper, although I haven't put enh into that yet.

[EmmySky]

My tank has two builds because a new friend in-game decided he was going to 'remake me'.  He told me which powers and slots and enh and honestly its about even with my own build with forum helpers.  I want to kind of blend the two to keep the best parts and get rid of the weaknesses but that's a whole lot of math lol

[Lockpick]

11 hours ago, drbuzzard said:

I only bother to 'finish up' characters with full IO work if I see a lot of potential in the build. I have plenty of characters who have made it to 50, and will likely linger there as there's not enough return for the investment of optimization.

I am on the other end of the extreme.  I plan my build out and adjust it multiple times while I level.  I also market to get the IO sets I need as I level, so that at 50 I usually have 90% of my sets complete.  At 50, I finish the build while working on my Incarnates.  Once Incarnates are done I ask myself: what do I do now?  I then roll another character.

[brigg]

12 hours ago, Abraxus said:

But, when I think about the hours involved in creating this damage monster, I'm still not convinced I would do this for every character I have.

What do you all think?

Whole heartedly, yes. Every character. And then some. But I actually enjoy the hunt. I'll be on the Auction House for hours looking for what I need, and for some odd reason, I enjoy that too. But the difference the IO sets make is far better than what a 50 with SO's or even basic IO's can produce. They're not even in the same league. I've spent so much influence and merits on builds, and not once have I regretted it.

 

Oh. And hey, Abraxus! 🙂

[Abraxus]

1 minute ago, brigg said:

Whole heartedly, yes. Every character. And then some. But I actually enjoy the hunt. I'll be on the Auction House for hours looking for what I need, and for some odd reason, I enjoy that too. But the difference the IO sets make is far better than what a 50 with SO's or even basic IO's can produce. They're not even in the same league. I've spent so much influence and merits on builds, and not once have I regretted it.

 

Oh. And hey, Abraxus! 🙂

Oh, I don't regret it.  Not one bit.  I love the difference it has made in the character.  I'm just not sure I'm as content hunting down all the components on the Auction House.  Still, if I do it more often, the theory is, I'll get better at it, and then...who knows.

 

Oh. and "Hey!" back sir!  😎

[brigg]

Just now, Abraxus said:

Oh, I don't regret it.  Not one bit.  I love the difference it has made in the character.  I'm just not sure I'm as content hunting down all the components on the Auction House.  Still, if I do it more often, the theory is, I'll get better at it, and then...who knows.

 

Oh. and "Hey!" back sir!  😎

When the Invention setup was launched, I refused. I didn't see the point of +1.5% Defense on a power that only gave you 3% Defense already. 1.5% of 3%?? That means, that power is only giving you 3.05%. A whole .05% increase. But then, I finally downloaded Mids and started playing with it, and the sky opened up, the clouds parted, a booming voice spoke to me. I may have even floated. That's when I fully grasped the opportunities of IO's. To the point that I don't wait till I'm 50, I start getting the sets I need as soon as I can. The potential is just crazy. So now when people ask, do you think this build is okay? I respond, with IO's, you can make all builds awesome with the right combination. 

[AboveTheChemist]

I stopped playing CoH before the invention system was introduced, so being on Homecoming meant learning everything about it from the ground up. It was a struggle at first, but well worth it, and I am still learning. I'll generally wait until around a character is around level 30 before I decide if it's worth it to put together an IO set build for them. When I do open up the hero planner, it's usually a challenge (albeit a fun one) to come up with an optimal build, but I enjoy trying to optimize the build while staying within a reasonable budget and not breaking the bank with purple sets. Of the 4 characters I have built out so far, I'm quite proud of their capabilities and especially of how fun they are to play. I know for certain that the lessons I have learned throughout the process has made me a better overall player, too.

[Clave Dark 5]

I'm with you, IOs are more or less a take-it-or-leave-it thing for me.  Unless I've swiped a build from the forums (thanks you people who put in all that work!), in which case I'm still not fretting over them, really, am I? 

 

Right now my 50 MM King Pumpkin Spice is still sitting with my spur-of-the-moment slotting and power choices (barring a bit of forum inspired proc-monstering) and I haven't even started on his Incarnating because who the hell really understands that stuff?!  Someday I'll get around to re-learning it and seeing what's what.  In the meantime I can still play him just fine, and that's the main point to me.

[ScrewlooseCohh]

16 hours ago, Abraxus said:

What do you all think?

 

I have had similar ambivalence towards sets as you.

 

I don't think you need IO sets at all, and some people I play with seem to find the game less challenging once they have gone to the trouble of squeezing the last 1% of performance out of their build.

 

Like much of the game I find that good enough is good enough, but I guess my benchmark has moved a little to the point where I use IO sets without worrying about that last 1%.

 

After doing a little character building engineering for a couple of characters I found that I liked the same sets on each type of power pretty much no matter what character they were on.  So I can just get the same sets for all the ranged powers on all my characters, and melee, pbaoe, hold and so on.  Once you have found sets you like then don't worry if they aren't the absolute best.  Also i don't worry if they are cheap, trying to get the most expensive thing just because it is most expensive is pointless and I don't much like the bonuses the expensive sets give anyway.

 

The only other is acquiring them.

 

In the old days there was a time when collecting some of the materials and recipes to make your enhancements was at least partly feasible, but with the way the Auction House has been implemented you are better off just selling whatever resources come your way and buying the enhancements you need.  I always buy Attuned Enhancements and they cost no more than the non-Attuned ones.

 

If you craft and sell everything that drops for you that will make a profit from about level 25 to 40 then you will make a fair bit of Inf, and there are simple strategies for crafting and using Enhancement Converters to increase the value of uncommon set IOs (look in the guides section).  This does take a little while to master and to implement, but last weekend I went on a bit of a plunge with one of my characters who was going to need a fair bit of influence soon and in an hour crafted 50 Enhancements upgraded them using about 100 reward merits and sold then over about 36 hours for 119 million influence.  I am sure others do better, but I can easily turn out 1 million a reward merit.

 

They are something there to be used when and as you can, but not at all necessary.

 

The most important thing is to have fun.

 

regards, Screwloose.

"I am not young enough to know everything."

 

 

[MrAxe]

I'm not making an 'inf is no object' build again inside a year. Maybe never again. I want everything unlocked and at its best when it comes to my main and that includes an awesome IO set build. But as said it takes so damn long, along with having to plan the build out, test it and farm for it that I can't face doing it again for a long time.

 

Balance is key. Do it once with a main. Do it too much and it stops being fun.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

On the subject of time investment to perfect a build etc, it may surprise you to learn it does not really demand a player to farm nor spend hours in thought or on a build planner to develop a character. Maybe Im an idiot savant, maybe Im on the spectrum and can rain man this game for some reason but I think it really was just playing it.

 

You see it was around year 3 I began to notice in this games lifespan, tha I could take any AT, any power set combo, and by simply playing it, and doing the old respec trials at usually around lvls 25,35, and 45 Id typically have a build fine tuned to my personal wants and needs. Because I love leading TFs when not soloing story arcs and once reward merits came into play I never had any trouble taking every character to a pretty high end build set wise.

 

Hell on HC when i came to it I found my old instincts coming back so quickly it was crazy. I have not had any need to look at builders, I can look at a new power set or the new AT sentinal and again could in my mind see more or less the end game build already laid out.

 

Nor is it just about obvious numbers, but more knowing the power sets and their inherent strengths and weaknesses. A lot of the number cruncher players Ive known then and now while on paper can meta the hell out of a build, rarely can actually play it well enough to make it seem all that great compared to builds born of active in game play.

 

So sure if you struggle with seeing and bringing a true super hero build to life and tend to stay more at the street level that is no crime. Some people prefer harry dresden to doctor strange, or super boy vs superman. Some of us like staying in smalleville forever, some of us want to soar among the cosmos.

[brigg]

8 hours ago, ScrewlooseCohh said:

I don't think you need IO sets at all, and some people I play with seem to find the game less challenging once they have gone to the trouble of squeezing the last 1% of performance out of their build.

That's just it though. When IO's were first released, I thought of it as that 1% boost as well and figured what's the point. But it's not 1%, it's more like an additional 50%. In some cases, even more. And on top of that, allowing you to boost your main stats through IO's frees up opportunities for other strengths and weaknesses. You don't have to stack a bunch of SO's on 1 power to get what you need on it, because IO sets across your whole build will do the trick - if not better - and allow you to boost other stats as well.

9 hours ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

I'm with you, IOs are more or less a take-it-or-leave-it thing for me.  Unless I've swiped a build from the forums (thanks you people who put in all that work!), in which case I'm still not fretting over them, really, am I? 

 

Right now my 50 MM King Pumpkin Spice is still sitting with my spur-of-the-moment slotting and power choices (barring a bit of forum inspired proc-monstering) and I haven't even started on his Incarnating because who the hell really understands that stuff?!  Someday I'll get around to re-learning it and seeing what's what.  In the meantime I can still play him just fine, and that's the main point to me.

Once you really start messing with the Incarnate stuff, it begins to make a lot of sense. All my builds are setup with Incarnates established. Granted, not everyone's brains are wired the same way. I was always really good with Math, so it makes sense to me. Some people hate Math with a fiery passion, so I could understand if they struggled with it. Sadly, what's even worse is, if you're the type that struggles with Math, someone who loves Math couldn't really teach you. Your brain just isn't wired that way. You would have to figure it out in your own methods. In reverse, if you tried to teach a Math lover, they're gonna hear it in hieroglyphics, because that's how their brains are wired. Reminds me of the struggles I had trying to help my son with his Math homework when he was in 3rd grade. *shivers*

 

And also, I recognize that name, King Pumpkin Spice. You're also very easy to spot in the Comic Con Farms lol.

[SmalltalkJava]

38 minutes ago, brigg said:

you're the type that struggles with Math

That is me.   I had to change my college major from Physics because I sucked at math.  I love the concepts but my brain is so slow when it comes to doing it.  It just doesn’t click.  I do realize it’s power 

 

IO allow you so really enhance defenses for squishier classes.   The set bonuses add up to really boost an AT to almost unimaginable heights 

[Abraxus]

48 minutes ago, brigg said:

That's just it though. When IO's were first released, I thought of it as that 1% boost as well and figured what's the point. But it's not 1%, it's more like an additional 50%. In some cases, even more. And on top of that, allowing you to boost your main stats through IO's frees up opportunities for other strengths and weaknesses. You don't have to stack a bunch of SO's on 1 power to get what you need on it, because IO sets across your whole build will do the trick - if not better - and allow you to boost other stats as well.

Once you really start messing with the Incarnate stuff, it begins to make a lot of sense. All my builds are setup with Incarnates established. Granted, not everyone's brains are wired the same way. I was always really good with Math, so it makes sense to me. Some people hate Math with a fiery passion, so I could understand if they struggled with it. Sadly, what's even worse is, if you're the type that struggles with Math, someone who loves Math couldn't really teach you. Your brain just isn't wired that way. You would have to figure it out in your own methods. In reverse, if you tried to teach a Math lover, they're gonna hear it in hieroglyphics, because that's how their brains are wired. Reminds me of the struggles I had trying to help my son with his Math homework when he was in 3rd grade. *shivers*

 

And also, I recognize that name, King Pumpkin Spice. You're also very easy to spot in the Comic Con Farms lol.

Is it really math, or statistics?  Granted, there is some math involved to add percentages, etc., but the Mids builder can do that for you.  It seems like having a head for statistics would be the real advantage in this process.  Keeping track of what sets enhance which set of abilities, to what degree, and the overlap between sets that combine for the increases you want to end up with.  Or am I way off there?  Then, of course, there is the administrative logistics of gathering all of the materials/resources to make a build happen.  Either of these can be daunting, but the combination can be overwhelming. 

There again, I speak as someone who has avoided this for at least a decade, and finally dipped my pinky toe into that pool.  But, that is how I see it in my mind.  You're mileage may vary. 😎

Edited October 16, 2019 by Abraxus

[brigg]

3 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

Is it really math, or statistics?  Granted, there is some math involved to add percentages, etc., but the Mids builder can do that for you.  It seems like having a head for statistics would be the real advantage in this process.  Keeping track of what sets enhance, what set of abilities, to what degree, and the overlap between sets that combine for the increases you want to emphasize.  Or am I way off there?  Then, of course, there is the administrative logistics of gathering all of the materials/resources to make a build happen.  Either of these can be daunting, but the combination can be overwhelming. 

There again, I speak as someone who has avoided this for at least a decade, and finally dipped my pinky toe into that pool.  But, that is how I see it in my mind.  You're mileage may vary. 😎

It took some time and practice. It definitely wasn't something I figured out overnight, and it was completely daunting at first. Intimidating even. A lot of trial and error and input from others helped ease me into it. I have no doubt you'll get there. And even if you didn't, if you enjoy how you're playing, that's all that matters. And from what I've learned about you, you already know that. 😄

 

I'm no Mids/Pine's genious. There's always someone better or who understands the mechanics clearer or just has a different perspective, but if you need an outside eye for help or input, send me a shout, and I'd be happy to help you along your Mids/Pines journey.

[Riverdusk]

On 10/15/2019 at 8:15 AM, Abraxus said:

  It really came down to how much of my precious play time did I want to spend gathering resources, formulating a build, farming when I would run low, and hours in the Auction House getting what I needed, as opposed to actually playing? 

Well, for me (at least back in the day), I didn't have to spend potential playtime planning my builds.  I'd use my slow/downtime at work to come up with new builds. 😀  I'd usually do it using nothing but a spreadsheet as well, no fancy build planners.  I still do it this way mostly, I find it more flexible/customizable than any build planner and makes it feel like I really understand all the stats better. 

 

I'm one that finds that sort of stuff fun though (as well as the auction house, to a degree).  I know a lot don't find any of that fun, just like I don't find AE farms fun.

 

You are right that for a vast majority of the game, it doesn't make a huge difference.  I wouldn't worry about it.   Probably the most important IO's are just all the ones that help with endurance on the more endurance hungry characters.  That is where I really notice the biggest difference.  It is easy enough to throw those few IO's into any build.

 

[EmmySky]

2 hours ago, Abraxus said:

Is it really math, or statistics?  

When I went to college, I tested out (didnt have to take) of English, science and history.  Math was my nemesis (still is) so they put me in a class called Elementary Mathmatics where they taught us what a numeral is.  Coincidentally, for my Psych major, I had to take a course called Statistics.  The same semester.  Opposite ends of the hallway.  My professor for Statistics told me at the end of the semester, "I am giving you a D because I dont want you back next semester."  

 

The long and short of it is that if its math or statistics, I suck at it!  I am trying to learn.

[DSorrow]

I fully IO all my 50s with basically inf-is-no-object builds, mostly because I find the search for ultimate power the most interesting thing to do in end game. However I do remember how daunting all the IO stuff felt when it first came out. Right now I have a lot of experience in planning builds so it's pretty fast to make a great build when I basically have a default set in mind for most typical build goals. Also making money off the AH is quite trivial once you know what you're doing so basically the cost of planning a build and getting the inf for me is a handful of hours of playtime, and usually less actual time than it takes to get to 50. Plus, I actually find tinkering in Mid's fun in moderation.

[Sir Myshkin]

Quite a few interesting perspectives on this topic; I'll toss in a thought myself.

 

Back on OG Live, in the last couple of years before sunset I became one of those few players who could take any combination of sets on an AT, spend an hour in Mid's, and produce the maximum potential output for that combination based on expectation of the AT, and Survival metrics. That wasn't a talent, it was a developed skill from spending a lot of time toying around in Mid's, and I honestly blame it on my enjoyment of Magic The Gathering. In that TCG I found a lot of enjoyment in looking for unique play mechanics that occurred in unexpected ways in new sets. I'd walk into a Friday Night Magic with something absurd and ride it all the way to the top seat that night because no one would know how to deal with it; may not have always won, but it was the journey getting there. When it came/comes to CoH, it was just a development of looking at the stats, seeing the numbers, seeing the power interactions, and creating that pathway.

 

Also, I'm terrible at math, but I'm great at applied sciences (as in, I can crush Physics, but couldn't run a calc problem to save my life, and I hate imaginary numbers with a passion). So I don't see my affinity for build min/maxing as a math thing, but an application of practical development/use. I just need to know where the values exist, and how I can merge them together to build my monster rather than running values in my head and stacking and adding digits. This is how I simplify how my brain see things; and this is what is actually happening.

 

At this point in the game's life, I can generally flip a build in Mid's fairly quickly, so I don't (generally) need to spend much time toying with them. Given that, what I do now is build a new character and give it an initial seed of 150k* so I can buy a few minutes of a travel pack and give it a market starter for some early cheap IO recipes. I'll then run a few DFB's or other basic content to get a feel for the first few powers. If I can't make a connection early on, I'll trash it (wont even care about the inf seed). Generally though I only build things that I go in with a significant expectation. Once I hit 20 I use the basic inf seed to generate out a couple dozen recipes I can market out for a greater value, and do this each time I log in to play the character. I'll use the development slush fund to buy the inexpensive attuned-IO's so I can level up with my build instead of "buying into it" later on. Gives me a lot more mileage, and a lot more desire to play the character because it feels a lot more like "leveling up" earnestly, because the character becomes stronger holistically, versus just theoretically.

 

By the time I'm in the 40-50 stride the character will have generated its own 150-200 million influence that funds the core basics of my pre-planned build. If there's any inaccuracies in the performance, I may review the build and make alterations on the most "expensive" enhancement choices. Generally this wouldn't be a concern, but it does sometimes come up that a power doesn't hold up to practical play for my personal play style, and I might decide to exclude it. The only real major consideration is practical play, some powers turn out to be a better choice for a given attack chain, or IO slotting/mechanic purpose that doesn't show on paper (I'm looking at you Radiation Strike).

 

Once my character hits 50, I make a play call on whether I'll revisit that character often enough to validate the inclusion of "chase" IO's (basically anything that might have cost me more than 10mill buy-it-now pricing). Usually at that point the build is around 85-90% completion anyway, so the exclusion of a few IOs wont necessarily hamper it. Those powers could be generically filled if I were inclined, but I more often just leave them blank for a "if I get around to it, I'll add them in." Since I can make any single character its own personal self-marketer/trust-fund, revisiting them later on means I can walk right back into easily developing their inf bank through my normal daily gameplay. Typically only doing the market tasks in between down period like waiting for a team to reach a door, or a TF to start, kind of thing.

 

tl;dr It's possible to build every toon as its own market-funding entity without using a farmer or a dedicated marketer toon, it just takes a little research into marketing on the /ah and doing the basics of craft-flip-sell each day you log into that specific toon. Buy attuned enhancements to see the benefits quickly and level up with them, and by the time the character hits 50 they should've easily earned 100-150mill Inf to have the core of a basic build completed. If the character is worth full investment, a fundamental IO build can be done within 250-300m, with an "expensive" build in 650m. Even if all a player does is earn merits, convert merits to sellable goods, repeat, it's possible to earn 500-650 million Influence within three months of casual play at 10 hours a week. Builds are pretty easy to come by if you don't want to do the legwork on planning, they're easy to tweak in-process, and any given character is pretty easy to kit with IO's without much expense. It just takes the discipline to actually do the basic market craft-sell process on recipes to earn the Inf.

 

Right now I'm sitting on... five or six fully geared 50's, another that's partial because I haven't returned to it, and two more toons..., three more toons around 40 that will be full-kit by 50 just by osmosis of playing them. With all the testing I've been doing, I haven't got a lot of time to really do any of that farming stuff, so I have to find other, simpler means to earn that Inf to afford anything on them, just so happens that its really not that complicated to earn a couple hundred Inf and afford a basic set build.

 

*I have a "main" character now that actually houses the bulk of my marketting recipes and Inf, and my Inf-Seeds have actually become full Trust Funds of 100m Inf that I have stacked in e-mails. I stopped doing self-generating characters when I ended up with two that were drowning in excess. I moved 9-digit figures off them to other (newer) toons and figured it'd be simpler (for me) just to centralize on one that I log into most often.

[Clave Dark 5]

12 hours ago, brigg said:

Once you really start messing with the Incarnate stuff, it begins to make a lot of sense. All my builds are setup with Incarnates established. Granted, not everyone's brains are wired the same way. I was always really good with Math, so it makes sense to me. Some people hate Math with a fiery passion, so I could understand if they struggled with it. Sadly, what's even worse is, if you're the type that struggles with Math, someone who loves Math couldn't really teach you. Your brain just isn't wired that way. You would have to figure it out in your own methods. In reverse, if you tried to teach a Math lover, they're gonna hear it in hieroglyphics, because that's how their brains are wired. Reminds me of the struggles I had trying to help my son with his Math homework when he was in 3rd grade. *shivers*

 

And also, I recognize that name, King Pumpkin Spice. You're also very easy to spot in the Comic Con Farms lol.

My troubles with the Incarnate and builds stuff isn't so much math but

A) How there's zero explanation for what you're supposed to do with Incarnate stuff.  I had one player quite kindly walk me through it for my first 50, but then time went by and I started to forget it...  I've been over a couple of guides since then and think I've got enough of a handle on it again to set up King Pumpkin Spice now. 

B)  Once I figure out a build for him that I like.  I really should download Mids, ha ha.  I know it's just a matter of tinkering and balancing, testing out an idea and seeing what you end up with.

C)  I haven't had to do homework in ages!  "But this is fun!"  Well, in some ways...  🙂

 

I didn't know King PS made it into the Comic Con Farm after I sent the file, neat!