Hasten: Make it Inherent, or get rid of it?

[The_Warpact]

No

[Bossk_Hogg]

1 hour ago, Abysmalyxia said:

Your first "Reasonable Case" is literally the same BS justification everyone uses to maintain the status quo: THE DEVS JUST HAVEN'T GOT THE TIME TO LOOK INTO THIS POWER THAT IMPACTS VIRTUALLY EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF THE GAME. That's not a reasonable justification. Saying "The Devs haven't got the time" is bad.

 

Reasonable Case #2 is similarly terrible. Maintaining broken game design because it would upset those exploiting it is just terrible.

Maybe you can find another 15 year old game that you actually enjoy rather than insisting this one be torn apart and rebuilt from the ground up?

 

Perma Hasten has been in the game longer than some of the players have been alive. Deal with it and move on. 

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, Solarverse said:

Yes sir!  🙂

When i worked in auto development my boss said the worst thing that ever happened to calibration (tuning the computer control) was they put actual numbers and units on things.  Which made engineers think those actually meant something. 

 

Hasten is still as roughly as powerful as two recharge IOs in every power, or 9xLOTGs, etc.  

 

Just that 70% doesn't work the way most assume it does.  

[Oubliette_Red]

1 hour ago, justicebeliever said:

Well your response was larger than the original posters, so I guess I'd have to side with you on this....But he did have more words...

 

Hmmmm

One could argue quality over quantity.

 

[ShardWarrior]

What about those who do not have hasten in any build on any character, yet think Hasten is fine and should be left as is?  Those people are not defending anything about their build.  Seems to me the first sentence is based on a very false assumption.

 

As for the rest, reasonable people look for debate and will listen to opposing points of view, not make statements like "anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and unreasonable!"

Edited April 9, 2020 by ShardWarrior

[Oubliette_Red]

1 hour ago, Abysmalyxia said:

"There are about 60k characters at level 50. About 50k of them use Hasten." <=Is this a lie? Seems legit.

Please provide a link.

 

Otherwise...

There are only two powers that are an absolute requirement and that's the 1st power in your Primary powerset and 1 of 2 powers in your Secondary powerset.

[AngriestGhost]

44 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Isn't that the case for all recharge bonuses though?  

 

 

Yes, but the more recharge you build the closer you get to receiving the full benefit while simultaneously butting against diminishing returns. It's... complicated.

[nihilii]

2 hours ago, Abysmalyxia said:

A pool power that is placed into the build of virtually every high level player in the game is broken.

You STEP AWAY from Combat Jumping, sir!

[Haijinx]

6 minutes ago, AngriestGhost said:

Yes, but the more recharge you build the closer you get to receiving the full benefit while simultaneously butting against diminishing returns. It's... complicated.

That's why my goal is perma hasten

 

That way my recharge is always the same.  Whatever actual speed it is.

 

[MunkiLord]

2 hours ago, Abysmalyxia said:

Which would be a perfectly workable solution. I don't oppose keeping the current recharge times because the game is already balanced around the reality of everyone having hasten. My issue is that it creates a staggering gulf in power output between those who have it and those who do not. No pool power should have that kind of impact.

This could be solved by the people that don't have, taking it if they want to.

 

  

8 minutes ago, nihilii said:

You STEP AWAY from Combat Jumping, sir!

You get it

Edited April 9, 2020 by MunkiLord

[Haijinx]

25 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Please provide a link.

 

Otherwise...

There are only two powers that are an absolute requirement and that's the 1st power in your Primary powerset and 1 of 2 powers in your Secondary powerset.

That and a jetpack

[Bopper]

2 hours ago, Abysmalyxia said:

Reduce recharge times across the board by 70%, essentially granting everyone the perma haste they already want. It won't significantly alter game balance because arguably the majority of players do this already anyway and those who don't will be happy to see the change. In essence those who depend on hasten will see no real loss (and will gain a few slots and a power back) while those who don't have it will be brought more up to par

So your solution is to grant everyone perma hasten...except even better (I'll show math on what I mean, below), thus allowing everyone an extra power (and power pool) to pick from? The game is easy enough as is, why are you suggesting nerfing what's left of that difficulty? 

 

Simple math, let's say someone currently has a power with a 100 second recharge, and they have 95% recharge enhancement plus Hasten (70%). The new cooldown for the power becomes:

Cooldown = 100 seconds / (1 + 0.95 + 0.70) = 37.74 seconds.

 

Your proposal to reduce all power's recharge by 70%. Then have that new base recharge enhanced by 95% recharge reduction.

Cooldown = 100 seconds / (1 + 0.70) / (1 + 0.95) = 30.17 seconds.

 

So not only does someone not have to make many sacrifices to chase perma-hasten, we also give that person FAR more recharge reduction, allowing for a player to instead chase defense/damage/whatever. I apologize if someone has already made this argument, but I didn't feel like reading 3 pages of comments that must have been quite a flame war.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Bopper

[Ruin Mage]

oh good this thread.

hard no.

[Caulderone]

2 hours ago, Abysmalyxia said:

"There are about 60k characters at level 50. About 50k of them use Hasten." <=Is this a lie? Seems legit.

42 minutes ago, Oubliette_Red said:

Please provide a link.

 

Otherwise...

There are only two powers that are an absolute requirement and that's the 1st power in your Primary powerset and 1 of 2 powers in your Secondary powerset.

I'm in the leave it alone camp, but there is the data out there, albeit a bit old by now (August 2019)

 

60348 level 50 characters (as of Aug. 2019)

53580 of them had hasten (as of Aug. 2019)

 

That is ~88.8% of the characters at level 50 as of the date the data was posted..

[AerialAssault]

Did Hasten kick your dog? Are you okay? Do you need help?

[Alchemystic]

Another lesson in game design from a guy who doesn't know how to build.

[Starforge]

[MTeague]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

I worry the font size thing is my fault.  Lol.  I used it for one word as snark in the other hasten thread ...

Then we got this mess ...

 

 

This is why we can't have nice things!!  😉

[Shadowflare]

Lets just bake in the value of 5x LOTG's as a passive because everyone uses that too. /sarcasm

[siolfir]

45 minutes ago, Shadowflare said:

Lets just bake in the value of 5x LOTG's as a passive because everyone uses that too. /sarcasm

While we're at it could we just increase the Brute damage modifier to account for running +200% damage all the time because of Fury? I mean, what could go wrong with giving them a 2.25 melee and ranged modifier?

 

(if you took this suggestion seriously, congratulations... you are the problem)

[Razor Cure]

I have builds with hasten and without. SOme (quite a few) have it because they are non IO'd 50s, and I just took it for extra rech in tough fights. My Dom has perma hasten as a result of aiming for PermaDom. My emp has perma hasten just cause rech is what I went for above all else. One stalker has perma hasten, but only because, after finishing the build in Mids, I saw I could pick it up, and it would be perma. My SS brute doesnt have it, MY main blaster, ditto.

 

Surely a logical (to me) solution..leave Hasten as is, and have a pool power with a decent +rech auto power, exclusive with hasten. Say 20 (the value nearly all major power sets with +rech have) percent.

[Rathulfr]

33 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Surely a logical (to me) solution..leave Hasten as is, and have a pool power with a decent +rech auto power, exclusive with hasten. Say 20 (the value nearly all major power sets with +rech have) percent.

 

I once made a suggestion that they add a minor +Recharge buff (10-20%) to Swift to reduce the need for Hasten in many of my builds (but not necessarily everyone else's).  I figured that was mostly harmless: but obviously adding +Recharge to Swift would mean that Hasten would need to be nerfed by a commensurate amount to maintain balance. 

 

I was nuked from orbit.  And that post triggered the fiasco that became the epic "Nerf Hasten" thread by @Steampunkette (referenced above).  I think we both learned our lesson from that.

 

My eyebrows are just beginning to grow back...

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Blastit]

Getting rid of Hasten and looking over the recharge rates of various powers is fine with me, for the simple reason that it's mildly astonishing that a pool power has been allowed to have primary power set impact for so long. I don't use it anyway. Not like I try to make blasters with an uninterrupted attack chain of; Fireball. There are probably other things to prioritise, though.

[Eclipse.]

5 hours ago, Abysmalyxia said:

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your resistance by 70%.

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your damage by 70%.

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your accuracy by 70%.

 

Then imagine you showing up on these forums and telling people that you think that shit is perfectly balanced. Do that and then hopefully you can understand why I'm making the puzzled black guy face dot gif while reading your post.

Use numbers that are more reflective of the cap.

 

rechargw cap is 400:

70/400 is what just shy of 1/6th cap?

 

so for an equivalent it’s be:

70 dmg for all but brutes

~10resistance

~8 def.

 

for def there are several powers  - that don’t rely on cool downs — that are around 1/2 that (hover/combat jumping/maneuvers) and weave that I believe is close to that. Then there is unleashed potential which is far above that , iirc 

 

resistances only have tough for toggles, which is limited to S/L. But then you  have rune of power — can’t be made perma, but can get to ~60% uptime with a similar investment as perma hasten.

 

only difference is how many powers into the pool you have to go for the big ones., but the def ones can all be gotten with 1 dip .

 

 

Based on the numbers above it looks like >50% of level 50s most of the defensive tskills as well, maybe not as drastic as hasten but we'll in the territory of "everyone" having it. Should all of them be nerfed?

Edited April 10, 2020 by Eclipse.

[BrandX]

I actively try to avoid taking Hasten.  I don't feel it needs to be nerfed.