Ever been disapointed after a respec?

[EmperorSteele]

So, I have this Inv/Rad Tank, and I was choosing powers and slotting them haphazardly as I leveled her up, not really paying attention to her build, just getting her up there. I eventually tightened things up a little bit and she became really fun to play, soloing +4/x8 missions and AVs and all that.

Buuut I felt she wasn't as good as she COULD be. Little global recharge, endurance hog, damage was good but could probably be better, etc. So I opened up Mids, compiled a build, showed people, got feedback, took some suggestions, and overall came away with all her stats better than they ever had been! This was gonna be great! I went in-game, respec'd, picked all the powers and correctly placed all the slots, bought up all the enhancements I needed, aaaaand...

...

Nothing. Well, maybe not "nothing". Her endurance management is better, but other than that? She's not doing anything she couldn't do before. It feels like nothing really changed. Kinda feels like a wast of an evening and all the inf and merits I spent. Kinda having buyer's remorse on the whole thing, y'know?

What about the rest of you? Any of you ever have something like this happen?

[EmmySky]

My current project is a merc/emp MM.  Got her to 50 back in November or December then nothing.  Now I am doing her incarnates.  

 

Same as you, worked up a build in Mids, wedging in def and res, some end management and recharge.  Fairly inexpensive build at about 350m.  End management is better but otherwise not an appreciably better build than her common IO build she had before.

 

I will still finish her, just not as thrilled with her as I thought I could be.

[Luminara]

17 minutes ago, EmperorSteele said:

It feels like nothing really changed. Kinda feels like a wast of an evening and all the inf and merits I spent. Kinda having buyer's remorse on the whole thing, y'know?

What about the rest of you? Any of you ever have something like this happen?

 

So many times.  So many.  I'd think, hey, I've never tried this power, or tried slotting in this way on this character, and spend everything rebuilding around the idea, then *FREEM!*, disappointment.  The power I was interested in wasn't what I wanted.  The slots I shuffled around turned out to be unimpressive, or worse, caused problems I didn't foresee.  I respeced my Kin/Elec melee-only defender until I ran completely out of respecs (back before they could be crafted), trying different things with no appreciable improvement.  My TA/Dark went through more respecs than I could count before I settled on one build.  I even did it recently, on a Widow, trying out different combinations of powers.  It took four respecs on her, plus using the secondary build, before I settled for something.

 

I've been poking and prodding Mids' for over a week, trying to decide exactly what I want, and still think, "It could be better".  I already know I'm going to use at least one respec, to replace a power, and potentially another later to test a power, and one after that if the test power doesn't meet my expectations, to test yet another power... it could turn ugly after that.

 

But... this is the sort of thing I enjoy.  It's the kind of puzzle that interests me.  It's relaxing to comb through powers and slots and enhancements, changing this, moving that, seeing how each alteration modifies the whole build.  It's worth the risk of disappointment, or having to burn/buy extra respecs to discover whether my hunches and hopes pay off.  It's one of the reasons I kept looking for Co* after it went under, it's one of the reasons I bought a laptop to play it now that it's back, it's one of the reasons I'll probably be here until these servers are shut off.

[Greycat]

I just ... don't do Mids, generally. I figure I"m playing a game, not a spreadsheet. 🙂 

 

Depending on what you're trying to do with the respec, though, you can always use your second or third build (with cheap common IOs, SOs, etc.) to see if you like the baseline, then transfer what you did to the main build before really investing.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I'm with you.  I never use Mid's until either I've hit 50 or it's otherwise virtually unplayable.  When I do "optimize", it's usually for a marginal improvement in defense or recharge speed and invariably is not nearly as fun as the random ass powers I usually pick up on the way.

[Biff Pow]

Not disappointed but I often think of one other little change to the build right after respec-ing.

[MunkiLord]

53 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I figure I"m playing a game, not a spreadsheet. 🙂 

But spreadsheets are fun!

 

Also, this is another opportunity to mention we really really need a better respec system so it's easier to just move around a few slots and powers rather than having to do absolutely everything.

[Twisted Toon]

But

But

But

This isn't City of spreadsheets...

 

(I almost used a Lethal Weapon 2 movie line, but it might have been considered racists by some, and made absolutely no sense in context to the conversation)

[MTeague]

I very much prefer to eyeball and wing builds. I do not have Mid's at all. 

I've considered getting it... just so I could post what I've come up iwth in a language most of the player base can use.

 

But generally I eyeball combat stats, and decide what I need more of, and then look to see what slotting I'm happy with, and what I'm not.

I'm also perfectly fine and dandy if the result is Not Perfectly Optimized, but can still kicks azz.

 

If I only have 2-3 LotG +7.5%'s slotted, and no Hasten at all, I'm okay with that.  I prefer mixing up different pool powers and using different things on different characters REGARDLESS of what's most effective, just to shake it up a little and experiment with a varied toolkit.

Edited September 17, 2020 by MTeague

[Monos King]

4 hours ago, EmmySky said:

I will still finish her, just not as thrilled with her as I thought I could be.

That's because you made a mercs/emp.

[Troo]

5 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

What about the rest of you? Any of you ever have something like this happen?

Of course.

It's all part of the learning curve. At least respecs are easy to come by currently.

[Parabola]

I've found the answer is to use the test server to try out builds before committing to a respec in game. Once you get familiar with the process it doesn't take long to do. I've not played a build yet that worked out in game exactly how I thought it would from mids.

[nihilii]

I finely tune Mids builds days in advance, often while the character is still level 1. I go through leveling and/or a final respec. Then, once every power is picked, every slot set, all the hotkey trays filled...

 

I notice there's a couple optimizations I forgot. Moving 1 or 2 slots in the entire build.

And I ALWAYS notice this before trying out the build at all. Not in the many hours/days where I could have thought about the build further, but right after the process of setting everything up.

Drives me nuts.

[Sovera]

It isn't City Of Kinda Ok Heroes either.

 

I'm like nihilii. I start by building a character in Mids. I don't bother cooking a leveling build since that's just replacing purples for Kinetic Combats or Obliterations and having Build-up/Hasten triple slotted.

 

But the character has not even been formed and I have it all pathed and tweaked to reach my goals.

 

That does not save me from what the OP mentioned though. I've literally reached level 50, resppeced, be mid re-slotting things and be glancing at Mids and be 'hmmmmmmm, if I would remove a slot from here... I could put it there... and then....' which leads me to re-respec two or three minutes after respecing 😄

[RageusQuitus2]

4 hours ago, parabola said:

I've found the answer is to use the test server to try out builds before committing to a respec in game. Once you get familiar with the process it doesn't take long to do. I've not played a build yet that worked out in game exactly how I thought it would from mids.

For some reason i just wont do test.  Ill spend days on mids and accumulating io's.  But the idea of playing on test server.  No experience, no infamy, no rewards.  I cant do it (to my detriment id guess).

[InvaderStych]

5 hours ago, Sovera said:

It isn't City Of Kinda Ok Heroes either.

 

This.  So Much This.  All This, All Day, Every Day.

 

Never Not This.

__________________________________________________

 

On Topic though: 

 

Every time I respec a melee build to try Hover Melee (which I know is theoretically excellent and highly recommended by many) I end up disappointed.  I mean, I get it, it's great, and flying runners (or flying AVs) are a non-issue with it ...

 

... but ....

 

I can never move nearly as quickly or accurately as I can on foot, and the 'follow' button doesn't bring you into sufficient melee range.  I just end up annoyed and going back to sprint/cj.

 

Yes, I will fully admit right now that this is a personal quirk, arguably sub-optimal, and yes, I keep trying to get used to it (nearly all of my alts are melee, and nearly all of those have an alt build with hover) and it just keeps being annoying every time.

 

And just to prove I'm completely insane - I'll probably keep trying it from time to time, lol.

[Sovera]

2 minutes ago, InvaderStych said:

 

 

 

Every time I respec a melee build to try Hover Melee (which I know is theoretically excellent and highly recommended by many) I end up disappointed.  I mean, I get it, it's great, and flying runners (or flying AVs) are a non-issue with it ...

 

... but ....

 

I can never move nearly as quickly or accurately as I can on foot, and the 'follow' button doesn't bring you into sufficient melee range.  I just end up annoyed and going back to sprint/cj.

You're correct that it is slow.... but only if you do not use the jetpacks! MWAHAHA! Imagine a solid near 60 mph without travel supression, -and- tridimensional -and- able to stop on a dime! I'm constantly zooming across the battlefield under their permanent effect thanks to a macro.

 

But you are correct that the follow command does not bring a hovering character to melee range. 95% of the time it is not a problem, and then there is the chaos of hunting GMs for an Hami pop andnot having a clue whose toenail did we target.

[InvaderStych]

41 minutes ago, Sovera said:

You're correct that it is slow.... but only if you do not use the jetpacks! MWAHAHA! Imagine a solid near 60 mph without travel supression, -and- tridimensional -and- able to stop on a dime! I'm constantly zooming across the battlefield under their permanent effect thanks to a macro.

 

Glossing over the irony that there is still travel suppression in PvE ..... <_<

 

Yeah, I keep trying to read that guide to figure out how to get there and setup the appropriate macros, but then my eyes glaze over and I just go log in to the game and start smacking things with a rusty, radioactive katana. 😄

 

Which jetpack tho?  If that works with small longbow I might revisit it again sooner than later.

 

41 minutes ago, Sovera said:

But you are correct that the follow command does not bring a hovering character to melee range. 95% of the time it is not a problem, and then there is the chaos of hunting GMs for an Hami pop andnot having a clue whose toenail did we target.

 

Annoys me to no end.  I actually use it pretty often to zip over to that random mob that thinks acting like a sniper will save it. It was also useful on that TF where you have to defeat the running Witch 10 times, heh.

 

I do like that stopping on a dime thing, although I also like the cool factor of "drifting" past some poor mob as I take it out with a crit from either SD or GD. 🙂

 

But yeah, nothing like standing on the ground surrounded by Giant things then zooming all the way out and hitting Meld to really lose orientation of who, what, and where you actually are. 😄 

Edited September 17, 2020 by InvaderStych

[Ura Hero]

So many respecs that were just meh or OMG this is so unplayable.  The latest was an attempt to get both good defense and recharge on my Ill/Rad Controller.   I get about 20 seconds of fighting before it starts dropping toggles due to endurance issues.  So now I need to revisit it to figure out how I can get more Regen.

 

Mids is a great tool, but that is what it is and should be; a tool.  Something to use to help out.  I am certainly guilty of spending hours and even days trying to max a character that I know I will play a lot.  On the other hand I have spent a few minutes getting an idea of how I want slots and powers to line up and call it good.  Not all characters need min/maxing.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Ura Hero

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, InvaderStych said:

 

Glossing over the irony that there is still travel suppression in PvE ..... <_<

 

Yeah, I keep trying to read that guide to figure out how to get there and setup the appropriate macros, but then my eyes glaze over and I just go log in to the game and start smacking things with a rusty, radioactive katana. 😄

 

Which jetpack tho?  If that works with small longbow I might revisit it again sooner than later.

It's the Steam Jump and Jump Pack. The macro I'm using is this:

 

jetpack2.txtjetpack.txt

 

Alter the keybind to whatever you'd like. I use mouse button 4 to activate my travel power so I just added Shift as a modifier. 

 

Alter the path according to where you have the game installed. If you have it in C:\City of Heroes then change it to that. The keybinds can go straight into the C:\City of Heroes folder if that's the case. I just made a Binds folder to keep my binds separate of all other files in CoH's folder.

 

Once done and in the game do /bindloadfile c:\games\coh\binds\jetpack.txt You only need to do this one time. Again, change the path to whatever it is you are actually using.

 

 

Somewhat related I also have /bind button4 powexectoggleon fly$$powexectoggleon afterburner which allows me to spam the button and not detoggle either.

[tidge]

The 'post-respec disappointment' is usually in one of these categories:

 

1) The minor improvement I was seeking is barely noticeable or otherwise conditional. The disappointment is in the wasted time doing the respec more than anything else.

 

2) I give up a power that I'd grown used to having but felt like I could do better with an alternate choice. I'll experience a form of 'Phantom Limb' syndrome as I go to click a power I no longer have.

 

3) I'll try a radically different build. Often I'll use a separate build on the same character, but if I don't feel like spending lots of inf I'll try a respec instead. Occasionally the rebuild merits keeping, but often not.

 

And the biggest regrets relating to respecs:

 

4) Not recording my Power Tray configurations and trying to remember the configuration for all the trays.

 

5) Not emptying my enhancement trays before the respec.

[Outrider_01]

I number crunch on an AT Power/Secondary first before I roll it, to see if I like what it can provide and what I can build for.  Have an Illusion/Dark Affentiy controller that is almost perma PA, uses attune, and almost max def so it would be a good +30 TF/SF runner, no incarnate on the build in Mids.  Only thing I am disappointed with it is the lack of solid control for AoE:  Flash AoE hold recharge is just way to long, Two stealth of which Group is very lacking in utility, and Blind should of been an AoE Immoblize with sleep component (pseudo hold, stuff don't move and can't fight back until they take damage) so Containment worked better with the hard lock effect of Immobilize.  Otherwise, with Spectral Terror I lock things down well but the lack of containment makes the combo kinda "meh" except for /Dark which is great for any primary.

 

Fire Farm comment, boring if you are not interested in that

Spoiler

 I make fire farm builds all the time in Mids because I am bored, various AT and powers, just because Fire is the easiest thing to build for with 4 easy requirements

 

• 45.1% Defense, fire def tends to be near the top 3 bonuses in enhancement sets
• 75/90% resist; Purples and Winter easily add 36% resist for odd ball combos that provide at least 1/3 of the native resist
• Fire doesn't have a secondary effect.  Sure, its more damage instead of KB or -Def, but extra damage is checked against higher resist 🙄. 400 + 10x10 damage tick is 50 damage on a brute 😆
• Recharge

 

Current things built but shelved

• Rad/Electric scrapper on fire farms works but stuff keeps running away (lack of taunt aura) so its best used when someone else is farming; scrapper just smashes stuff with extra DPS/Crit
• TW/Electric brute for energy farms, works except Eng/Neg defense is further down in slot bonuses so it is hard to build for and recharge is dull; cheap build so it could be better.
• Fire/Kin corrupter buffer, cheap build theory crafting but sub 40 resist doesn't support 45.1% Def very well as +4/8 still chew though hp fast 
• Radiation/Ice brute or scrapper for ice farms, still deciding.  Couple of different builds for scrapper, using Caltrops from epic pools it can act like a burn patch or straight DPS with fireball.
  • Brute still looking at, to be different.

 

They probably wouldn't be top end or Nascar level, but they work!  In theory or subpar, but they meet the 4 requirements of Def/Resist/Status/Recharge (supports can build for range, but not efficient)

 

Am I disappointed?  Not really as I number crunch quite a few times before I build, I figure out and number crunch some *Spongebob Eternity Later* more if I do build it but generally too busy working on something else.  My main farmer became a Psi/Fire/Fire brute, probably clocks in around 8th place of efficiency but it works, is something different that isn't FoTM Rad/Spines and the KU of Mass Levitate for soft control is just a smidgen higher than KD of Foot Stomp (activation time beats ML, but Rage vs BU is another debate), even want to build a Psi/Fire/Soul which has 2 power requirement for an AoE (damage less vs Fire Ball, but its different).

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Outrider_01

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 hours ago, InvaderStych said:

Every time I respec a melee build to try Hover Melee (which I know is theoretically excellent and highly recommended by many) I end up disappointed. 

Considering F for follow doesn't actually get you into melee range while hovering I would have to consider those people insane.

 

To the topic, I've burned respecs on testing theories. I should go to the test server for that and honestly I have no clue why I don't do so.

 

My current fire/bio sent is running midnight grasp instead of inferno for Satan's sake... yea, I've screwed up a lot.

 

Happily, respecs are so easy to come by these days, in the long run, it just don't matter. Some time spent, some in spent, some things learned, whatever.

[Hew]

Before mids, I would literally do this on paper. I was never disappointed with a build I did on paper. Not so much one from mids. I think thats because with mids, you see all the numbers and really want to maximize all things to the maximumize. 

[Riverdusk]

3 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Blind should of been an AoE Immoblize with sleep component (pseudo hold, stuff don't move and can't fight back until they take damage) 

 

 

 

A controller without a single target hold power?  Um, no thanks?  Maybe turn flash into that instead would make more sense.  Would just need to cut the horrible animation and recharge time as well of course.  I don't even take flash most of the time on my illusion controllers it is so bad.  

 

Even easier, they could just make confusion and fear count as setting up containment.  Same way they count for the incarnate control hybrid power.  Would help mind controllers as well.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Riverdusk