What's hurting Dark Primary for Blasters?

[Twisted Toon]

Here is the problem I am having with that; Blasters are not Controllers. They lack in DPS for a control. I'm sure Controllers would love to do more DPS, but they are Controllers. We have DPS classes, just like we have controlling classes. Makes no sense to me why a Blaster should get a cone Immobilize when they should be having an AoE Damage ability in its place 

 

I get that you like it, however, it doesn't belong on a Blaster and it hurts the class and their role in the group.

 

Edited for typo.

 

You realize that Illusion Controllers are the least controllery Controller in the Controller Universe, do you not? They have, three actual control powers (if I'm not mistaken) and a power that turns them into the back-up Tank for the team. Should Illusion be retooled to make it fit in the controller class better by taking out Phantom Army and replacing it with something generic (Most likely a mass immobilize), and taking out Spectral Wounds ( a power that self heals!!!) and replacing it with a generic immobilize? Basically, taking what makes Illusion special (and the most direct damaging set) and turning it into a generic Control set.

 

You are asking for, essentially, the same thing to be done to Dark Blast for Blasters. Maybe, there are people out there that like to play Controllery Blasters. I know my Illusion Force Field Controller took the roll of Controller/Scrapper/Tank.

 

Don't pigeon hole the use of a powerset by the class it resides in. The Repeat Offenders should have proved that by now.

[jubakumbi]

Don't pigeon hole the use of a powerset by the class it resides in. The Repeat Offenders should have proved that by now.

 

This.

 

The ATs amd whatnot are there to add a layer of structure for interaction, not as a bludgeon to oppress them.

 

Not everything has to fit into a tiny little box.

[BelleSorciere]

However, I have to disagree with Tankers being second.  Tankers are, in my experience, the absolute single most poorly played AT in the game and always have been.  And that confuses me, because they aren't exactly high skill-cap.  And yet I keep finding Tankers who think they don't need Taunt, and thus have no way to manage aggro.  Brutes are close, but they get more leeway since they ride the line between Tanker and Scrapper.  I'm just one of those lunatics who likes to tank on my Brute.

 

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand how tankers or aggro works.

 

Tanker single target attacks include an AOE taunt that will hit up to five targets.

Tanker AOEs taunt every target they hit.

Tanker auras taunt every target they hit.

 

The only time you absolutely need taunt is if you're tanking Hamidon, and a brute could do that as well.

[Gentoo]

Increased range would make a world of difference for the tentacles. It is just too short range. 

[TheZag]

1 hour ago, Gentoo said:

Increased range would make a world of difference for the tentacles. It is just too short range. 

Back on live before the fancy IOs, my defender had a range SO in tentacles to make it about the same range as (nightfall?) The other cone AoE one.

[tidge]

Holy Threadcromancy!

 

Since this thread was started, I've played a Dark Blaster to 50+, and I have no issues with the primary.  To be fair, the concept had me skip T1 (Dark Blast), T6 (Tenebrous Tentacles) and T7 (Abyssal Gaze), and I had to adjust to the Damage-over-Time of Gloom, but it still feels like a pretty powerful Blaster to me.

 

For the record, the slotting I am running on Umbral Torrent is

 

Level 2: Umbral Torrent

• (A) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
• (37) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
• (46) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 30
• (48) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy): Level 50
• (48) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50
• (46) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown: Level 50
  

 

 

[Carnifax]

16 hours ago, TheZag said:

Back on live before the fancy IOs, my defender had a range SO in tentacles to make it about the same range as (nightfall?) The other cone AoE one.

Full set of Artillery works nicely. Chuck of Ranged Defense / NRG / Neg def and Artillery comes with 2 Range enhancements. My range goes from 40 to 54 feet. 

 

As for Umbral my "cheap and cheerful" (relatively) slotting is 3 Artillery (Acc/Dam, Dam/End and Acc/Dam/Rech), a Overwhelming Force Dam/KB2KD and a Forced Feedback. I don't even have a 6th slot in it. I don't use the Range enhancements because Umbral doesn't need it. 

[ForeverLaxx]

Mmm, necro threads.

 

My biggest complaints with Dark Blast as a Blaster primary are the mismatched cone ranges, mismatched cone angles, and the primarily DoT nature of the set itself. The damage is actually very comparable to other sets, but the problem is that it takes too long to see that damage.

 

That said it's still one of the "safer" Blaster sets due to the -ToHit and is strong in 1v1 situations because of it.

[Sailboat]

I have Dark/Dark Blaster whose costume and bio I like, but actually playing him feels underwhelming and I am considering remaking him as a Dark/Dark Corrupter.

[Uun]

19 hours ago, tidge said:

Holy Threadcromancy!

 

Since this thread was started, I've played a Dark Blaster to 50+, and I have no issues with the primary.  To be fair, the concept had me skip T1 (Dark Blast), T6 (Tenebrous Tentacles) and T7 (Abyssal Gaze), and I had to adjust to the Damage-over-Time of Gloom, but it still feels like a pretty powerful Blaster to me.

 

For the record, the slotting I am running on Umbral Torrent is

 

Level 2: Umbral Torrent

• (A) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
• (37) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
• (46) Cloud Senses - Chance for Negative Energy Damage: Level 30
• (48) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy): Level 50
• (48) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50
• (46) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown: Level 50

 

 

 

I've got similar slotting on Tenebrous Tentacles (1 acc IO, 1 range IO, 4 procs). Between the IO and set bonuses, I've got the range out to 55 feet.

[tidge]

1 minute ago, Uun said:

I've got similar slotting on Tenebrous Tentacles (1 acc IO, 1 range IO, 4 procs). Between the IO and set bonuses, I've got the range out to 55 feet.

Yep: even if the MaxTargets doesn't increase, lengthening the cones seems to improve performance. I've debated swapping out a high-level, under-utilized pool attack (which is essential a mule for a set bonus) to add the Tentacles to the build but I can't bring myself to do it. "Come to me you beautiful sources of XP / Inf / Drops!"

 

My playstyle on PUGs (for good or ill) is to cast the long-range Umbral Torrent against the NEXT group of enemies to draw them towards the team. Typically a PUG Tank/Brute has got the local aggro, so no matter what attacks I cast I won't get the nearby aggro myself. I don't know how much aggro the PUGs really want, but if the team isn't falling I usually feel like we can handle it.

[arcane]

I see absolutely nothing in Blaster Dark Blast that needs the slightest buff.

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, Uun said:

I've got the range out to 55 feet.

 

Remember that once you use your Snipe, you get a Range bonus. Off the top of my head, it's 50%, so it should be 20 extra feet as long as you keep using Snipe.

And then you can run Dark/Energy like me, and add Boost Range, and then your Tentacles reach from here to Tokyo 😉

[Rishidian]

On 6/2/2019 at 6:20 PM, Solarverse said:

Would be nice if we all agreed, but something tells me, in good ol' City of Heroes tradition, we won't.  😄

If we all agreed on everything, most of us wouldn't be necessary.

[tidge]

37 minutes ago, Coyote said:

And then you can run Dark/Energy like me, and add Boost Range, and then your Tentacles reach from here to Tokyo 😉

 Sounds... Fancy.

[Uun]

34 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

Remember that once you use your Snipe, you get a Range bonus. Off the top of my head, it's 50%, so it should be 20 extra feet as long as you keep using Snipe.

And then you can run Dark/Energy like me, and add Boost Range, and then your Tentacles reach from here to Tokyo 😉

I always forget about the range bonus from snipe. I don't have Boost Range (I'm Dark/TA), but I do have Clarion Radial.

[Snarky]

Too much Darkness?

[merrypessimist]

On 6/3/2019 at 1:15 PM, Solarverse said:

 

You wouldn't consider it a waste if you didnt finish out the set? If it was a plus regen or plus defense or something like that, I could see your point, but this is a kb to kd io.

 

Not even slightly.  If all you need is the KB>KD, then there's Overwhelming Force which isn't BAD in terms of bonuses if you wanna go five slots, but there's also a lot of good five slot sets you could put in there instead and just use the singleton.

Edited January 22, 2021 by merrypessimist

[Player2]

KB to KD is a workaround, but is it the best one?  The problem with this solution is that it forces players to spend a slot customizing the power to be more useful to them when they could be using that valuable slot for something else.

 

My recommendation would be to create a new IO enhancement that is both +Accuracy and also KB to KD.  Using this would allow people to slot for the knockdown without having to sacrifice for it.  I thought about maybe +Damage instead, but most people slot at least on accuracy into their powers, so this would allow the enhancement to do the job and also be used on attacks that might not deal damage.

[Vulpoid]

On 6/3/2019 at 12:02 PM, Solarverse said:

MANY players find Dark Blasters to be the red headed stepchild of Blasters

As a  real life redheaded stepchild contemplating making a Dark/Dark Blaster, I am awash with confused feelings and emotions right now. Hold Me.

[Myrmidon]

As of I27, Page 2, Umbral Torrent gets a KB-KD IO and Tenebrous Tentacles allows for using Things like Enflame (or ignore Knockback if you prefer the combo). 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Myrmidon

[DrInfernus]

On 1/20/2021 at 5:52 PM, Gentoo said:

Increased range would make a world of difference for the tentacles. It is just too short range. 

This is why I paired dark blast with NRG on my dark blaster. Boost range + two cones + two more cones from Soul Mastery = pure AoE joy. 
 

On the wider issue... I don’t want to get involved in any arguments here. I just want to say I like Dark Blast on blasters and see very little reason, personally, to change it. It’s a nice set 🙂

[Marshal_General]

On 1/21/2021 at 11:24 AM, Coyote said:

And then you can run Dark/Energy like me, and add Boost Range, and then your Tentacles reach from here to Tokyo 😉

I think I have seen that hentai.

[MTeague]

my biggest issue with Dark Blast is I don't like the fluffy ghostly look of most of the powers. 

I want something that looks more inky black. 

 

Rad Blast recolored into pitch dark, maaaaybe with a hint of midnight blue, would do it perfectly.  That's what I do for my Dark Control / Rad Assault dominator. 

 

Functionally though, Dark Blast seems plenty good for Blasters. 

If I wanted damage and more damage with a heaping scoop of damage and don't forget the damage, I'd play Fire Blast. 

But I like having a good mix of secondary effects in there. Both for slotting options / procing options, and just to allow for interesting things.  

 

An Ice/Ice blaster with several different hold powers to lock down troublesome things, and ice patch making enemies flop around like fish on dry land, and lots of extra kiting power from the slows is just more my playstyle. Similarly, Dark Blast having some back-door +DEF in the form of to-hit buffs is nice, and Negative is a nice damage type to be doing, and the Keep-Away of the Immobs (which can be used to nullify OTHER players not using KB wisely), just feels like it's in a good place to me.

 

I really do want an more-inky, less nether-y look to the blasts, though.  (Optionally; I get that sight unseen, legions of you probalby LIKE the nether-y look).

[KauaiJim]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

I really do want an more-inky, less nether-y look to the blasts, though.  (Optionally; I get that sight unseen, legions of you probalby LIKE the nether-y look).

 

These are the kinds of changes that should be doable without causing too much fuss and community controversy.  I wonder, should you consider putting this in the suggestions and feedback forum or is there already a place for suggested ADDITIONAL choices to ability effects?  In general it seems like something the HC team would consider (maybe I'm wrong).  

Also, would this be something that could be done through CoH Modder?  Forgive my sidetrack, just trying to be helpful.

 

On the dark blast, well great - I do not have a dark/ blaster...  but it's now on the radar.  😁

Edited May 7, 2021 by KauaiJim