Tankiest Non Brute/Tank???

[Snarky]

Always looking for the odd....

 

As a thought experiment: What Archetype/Powersets could be made

 

1) extremely Tanky (at 50/incarnate)

2) damage output is irrelevant (just roll with it)

3) preferably self buffing rather than team buffs (selfish thing, ain't it?)

 

I was thinking Scrapper would be obvious.... Then I started thinking about a Elec or Dark or ? / Invulnerability Sentinel built for Ranged Defense.....  Invul has good DDR and you stay at Range as much as possible.  Might even grab Unstoppable for the 3 minutes you are forced to be in melee....then back to the hills!

 

 

[Apparition]

Tanky at 50, damage output doesn't matter, self-buffs... you want a Time Manipulation Defender or Corruptor.  It comes complete with a taunt aura as long as you stay in melee range of the baddies.  Defender, Sonic or Beam Rifle would be best.  Corruptor, Fire, Ice, Beam Rifle.

[dtjunkie]

Am I trying to survive solo or am I trying to keep a team alive?

[Snarky]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

Tanky at 50, damage output doesn't matter, self-buffs... you want a Time Manipulation Defender or Corruptor.  It comes complete with a taunt aura as long as you stay in melee range of the baddies.  Defender, Sonic or Beam Rifle would be best.  Corruptor, Fire, Ice, Beam Rifle.

why are self buffs better than defense resistance and heals?

 

[zenijos10]

Masterminds can tank well in defensive mode. Since robots can buff the mm with defense, maybe robots for primary and time for secondary.  Or electric and try to layer in some res with def and heals.  Now I want to go mess around in mess and see what I can spit out. 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by zenijos10

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Always looking for the odd....

 

As a thought experiment: What Archetype/Powersets could be made

 

1) extremely Tanky (at 50/incarnate)

2) damage output is irrelevant (just roll with it)

3) preferably self buffing rather than team buffs (selfish thing, ain't it?)

 

I was thinking Scrapper would be obvious.... Then I started thinking about a Elec or Dark or ? / Invulnerability Sentinel built for Ranged Defense.....  Invul has good DDR and you stay at Range as much as possible.  Might even grab Unstoppable for the 3 minutes you are forced to be in melee....then back to the hills!

 

 

ANYTHING Forcefield!

[Spaghetti Betty]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

Tanky at 50, damage output doesn't matter, self-buffs... you want a Time Manipulation Defender or Corruptor.  It comes complete with a taunt aura as long as you stay in melee range of the baddies.  Defender, Sonic or Beam Rifle would be best.  Corruptor, Fire, Ice, Beam Rifle.

Yup, this. Even better if you grab Power Boost. You'll forget what taking damage is like.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Spaghetti Betty

[ZorkNemesis]

Sure they were designed with a Tank toggle, but Peacebringers and Warshades are both quite tanky even without it.  Both ATs have a higher resist cap than everyone but Tanks and Brutes (Khelds cap at 85%) and have means to get there easily; Peacebringers can keep Light Form active while Warshades can spike their resistances with Eclipse.  They also have good tools for self-sustaining; Peacebringers get a self-heal (two if you count Dwarf's heal), Max HP boost, and Conserve Power while Warshades can drain health/end from a pile of corpses, as well as more end from Eclipse.  The only trouble these two have are mez protection, though you can toggle into Dwarf when you're already mezzed allowing you to still act.

[Bopper]

I never made this build, but I crafted it for fun. It was my attempt at making a Fortunata that plays like a Sentinel. 100% ranged, tons of defense. Good resistance that becomes amazing when you turn on Rune of Protection (+38.5%) or Demonic Aura (+30% res, +50% def). The health and regen are low, but overall you'd be tough to bring down.

 

[Gulbasaur]

I've out-tanked brutes on my fortunata. Adding control to very high defence and cappable resistances really does make a difference. Even with a 5% chance to hit and 85% damage resistance, control turns the enemy hit rate down to zero which means tankiness can go a lot further. 

 

Kheldians are occasionally looked down upon as being underwhelming in the post-IO world, but Dwarf Form is mathematically one of the best resistance tanks through the mid-20s and hold aggro fine (they have a punchvoke on all dwarf attacks, plus a taunt, plus debuffs have an aggro modifier).

 

Peacebringers are self-healing, self-buffing and very self-sufficient. Low defence, but you can build anything for softcap so that's a moot point. Warshades put out more damage in large spawns but falter against bosses. For either of them, sitting at 85%  resistances is fairly trivial because of how broken recharge is, and everyone and their horse spits out defence buffs above about level 40. 

[biostem]

A different approach might be a thugs/elec mastermind - you can turtle up in your farraday cage while in bodyguard mode.  Chain the heal and other buffs off of your pets and you should also get the benefit.

[ArchmageMC]

Any MM. They are tankier than brutes when made right. Bots/Traps is a classic, but Thugs/Time would also do super well.

[Pyriold]

My fire/time controller is pretty tanky. Big defense buffs + big tohit debuffs, combined with double slow around me (hot feet & time's juncture) means that not only mobs almost can not hit me, they also can not run away and they even have their damage reduced, while they unsuccessfully try to flee. Now throw in the huge recharge buff and the res debuff...

[Snarky]

9 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

ANYTHING Forcefield!

too many team buffs unfortunately...

[Luminara]

10 hours ago, Snarky said:

Sentinel ... stay at Range as much as possible ... forced to be in melee

 

Sentinels have no aggro management tools, and sentinel damage output isn't sufficient to overcome the aggro generated by most other archetypes even with the higher Threat modifier, so you'd have to invest in the Presence pool.  Without that, you wouldn't be able to pull a -1 underling off of a "healer".

 

Also, sentinels have good damage mitigation and status protection.  They can handle melee combat very well, and some of their secondaries and *PPs include PBAoEs which would help with aggro management once you have a Taunt.  Staying at range would be a gross underutilization of sentinel capabilities for this project.  You'd be better served by any other archetype if you're insistent on range tanking.

[Hyperstrike]

9 minutes ago, Snarky said:

too many team buffs unfortunately...

There is no "overkill".
There is only "Kill" with ever-greater confidence levels.

And on a defense-maxed team, FF stops becoming a buff and becomes a DDR field with medium combat controls.

[KaizenSoze]

Two suggestions.

 

Hunt around for @Linea 801 builds. There are several non-tank-brute builds.

 

My Night Tank build. Can solo 801.2 4x8.

Spoiler

This Villain build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Black Magic Pixie: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Presence

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Mental Blast -- SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSpdBit-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSpdBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprSpdBit-Rchg/Global Toxic(7)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Strike -- Mk'Bit-Dam%(A), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(9), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(11), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(17), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(19), Rct-ResDam%(19)
Level 6: Mystic Flight -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 8: Follow Up -- Mk'Bit-Dam%(A), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(21), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(23), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(25)
Level 12: Spin -- SprDmnofA-Rchg/DmgFear%(A), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg(27), SprDmnofA-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprDmnofA-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprDmnofA-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 14: Lunge -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(31), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(31), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 16: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 18: Slash -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Hct-Dmg(34), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(36), Hct-Acc/Rchg(36)
Level 20: Mask Presence -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 22: Foresight -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(36), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(37), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 24: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 26: Mind Link -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(39), ShlWal-EndRdx/Rchg(39), GssSynFr--Build%(39)
Level 28: Eviscerate -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(42)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 32: Arcane Bolt -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(42), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(43), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(45)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A), GssSynFr--ToHit(45)
Level 38: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(46), UnbGrd-Max HP%(46)
Level 41: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 44: Rune of Protection -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam(46), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(48), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(48), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Provoke -- PrfZng-Acc/Rchg(A)
Level 49: Smoke Grenade -- DmpSpr-ToHitDeb(A), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/Rchg(50), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(50), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Conditioning | Hidden
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Prv-Absorb%(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), EndMod-I(15), PrfShf-End%(17)
Level 38: Arcane Power
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 50: Born In Battle
Level 50: High Pain Threshold
Level 50: Invader
Level 50: Marshal
------------
------------

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by KaizenSoze

[InvaderStych]

12 hours ago, Snarky said:

1) extremely Tanky (at 50/incarnate)

2) damage output is irrelevant (just roll with it)

3) preferably self buffing rather than team buffs (selfish thing, ain't it?)

 

Are you trying to survive the battlefield (being "Tanky") or actually control it (being the Tank, ie managing the flow of aggro and controlling placement of the scrum)?

[Nemu]

Blasters, I always hide behind them.

 

It works 100% of the time, 50% of the time.

[SeraphimKensai]

You can build a lot of things to be tankers that aren't tankers. I have a DM/Elec Defender with Provoke that has no problem tanking most AV's in the game. Things have difficulty hitting it due to it's defenses and tohitdebuffs and then has decent resistances, able to self heal which also debuffs an enemies Regen, and end drains targets quite easily which keeping them floored significantly reduces incoming damage.

 

Otherwise I have a poison/rad defender with Provoke that tanks AV's pretty well as once again it's layered mitigation involving my own defense/resistance, significant tohitdebuffs, and flooring the targets damage potential and their ability to heal.

[Sakai]

I have a Time/Water Defender that slows everything down to a crawl. Not sure if that is considered tanking but a good time had by all except for the AoE scrappers I am rolling with. Sorry bout that. 

[roleki]

I've got a lot of "support" characters that fit the bill, but I think the most-fitting in this case would be my Rad/Rad/Dark Corruptor.  Just wanders into melee, stuns/holds everything, debuffs them to hell, amps up its own damage, goes nuclear, lots of Scourge messages pop up, then on to the next.  Really, any x/Rad/Dark would do the trick, I think, but the extra PBAoE in Irradiate is what I was after on this one.  Next I want to try a Seismic/Rad/Dark so I can add KD to the list of miseries visited upon the hapless jerks I encounter.

 

ETA: I sincerely hope calling NPC villains 'hapless jerks' doesn't offend anyone in the community.

Edited April 7, 2022 by roleki

[PLVRIZR]

Awhile back, I joined an ITF (running my Fire/Thermal Corr.), which was led by an Inv. Sentinel.  He didn't seem to really need much (if any) support to face/tank it.  I don't even remember what his secondary and epic were.  Per your criteria, I would think that's what we're talking about, rather than holding and whittling.

 

I also think a +4/8 ITF is a good benchmark for tanking.  Massive defense debuffs, lots of different damage types, tons of EBs and AVs.

[Riverdusk]

Illusion/dark controller

 

You literally have 3 invincible tanks (with actual taunt) with you on demand.  That's when you even need them for protection (rather than damage), which most of the time in this combo you don't.  Because controller version of dark is pretty insane.  A boatload of defense and resistances for yourself with shadowfall and fade (and an epic shield).  Fade even has DDR.   Then on top of that another boatload of tohit debuffs (and a healthy amount of damage debuffing) with spectral terror, darkest night, and dark servant.  Also, an amazing heal, big -regen, and almost endless endurance with soul absorption. 

[Linea]

Linea Durability Ratings

Anything rated above 2 can tank the majority of official content.

 

Tanks rate up to 13.

Brutes rate up to 10.

ANY Tank or Brute can rate at least 6.  ... The only possible exception would be regen, I just don't see that many regens these days.

Scrappers, Stalkers, and Sentinels up to 6.

I would rate some truly exceptional Controllers and Doms as 6, but in general these will rate lower.

Veats, Heats, Defenders rate up to 5.

Masterminds, Corruptors, Controllers and Doms are not far behind Defenders, and also rate up to 5, but are much harder to get there.

Blasters rate up to 3 or 4.

 

Defenses Armors rate up to 13

Resist Armors rate up to 6

Heal-Tank Armors rate up to 5

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Linea