Focused Feedback: Experimentation (Build 1 - 4)

[DMW45]

15 minutes ago, Stan The Man said:

I understand why Jaunt was used thematically but if you were going to combine two travel powers, why not super speed and super jump?   That would probably provide a better vertical movement than teleport.  Though, I get the idea that if you move so fast, it's like teleporting.  But we already have fly+teleport with magic.  Two travel powers I suppose may be taken for functionality, why not do that here again?  

Then again, I suppose you could use that for the mutant pool power.

Because that's going to be the Natural Origin Utility Belt Freerunning travel power--basically a slottable ninja run.

Edited February 26, 2020 by DMW45

[GM Korvin]

2 minutes ago, Stan The Man said:

No, I believe that was the natural themed pool power.   Willpower is usually associated with natural origin.

Sorcery = Magic Origin

Experimentation = Science Origin

Force of Will = Mutation Origin

Gadgetry = Technology Origin

Utility Belt = Natural Origin

[Stan The Man]

Yup! I'm wrong! Whoops!  😄

Force of WIll is mutant... Utility Belt is natural... and yes, it will have superspeed+superjump.   

Some reason I associated utility belt as tech.   That's going to be gadgetry... which will be flying based.  Sorry for the confusion.

[Major_Decoy]

This is unnecessary now.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Major_Decoy
Correction had been made, my comment was unneeded.

[General Idiot]

So I copied my stalker over to beta, respecced her with the whole pool and did a few paper misisons.

 

- The damage on Corrosive Vial doesn't seem to respect archetype modifiers on some ATs. Particularly, Scrappers and Stalkers both do significantly more damage than they should with it, and Dominators do slightly more than they should. If it wasn't the only power of all the origin pools added thus far to do this I wouldn't question it because ranged modifiers on Scrappers and Stalkers being off is a well known thing, but why does this one power ignore the rule all the other ranged pool powers follow?

- Is it possible to make the colours customisable on the darts and the vial? The particle FX colour just fine but the projectiles used are suck as their default green no matter what, which is really strange to see if you've customised the colours. Throwing a green vial that bursts into a pink puddle just doesn't look right. I would suggest making one colour the FX and the other the projectile, if possible.

- Speed of Sound is amazing and I love it, though the animation is odd becuase you zoom off and then about a second later get the sonic boom looking burst around you. Is it possible to adjust the timing on that effect so it happens instantly at the same time as you get the speed bonus?

- Adrenal Booster has a 10 minute recharge and one minute duration. Sorcery's Rune of Protection, being a similar sort of power but more defensively oriented, has the same 10 minute recharge but a 90 second duration. Why the difference?

[VileTerror]

Magic = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Sorcery
Mutant = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_of_Will
Science = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Experimentation
Technology = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Gadgetry
Natural = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Utility_Belt

 

 

I suspect the shorter duration is due to Adrenal Booster having the built-in Recharge Modifier, meaning the downtime isn't actually 10 minutes.

[Bopper]

4 hours ago, VileTerror said:

Magic = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Sorcery
Mutant = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Force_of_Will
Science = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Experimentation
Technology = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Gadgetry
Natural = https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Utility_Belt

 

 

I suspect the shorter duration is due to Adrenal Booster having the built-in Recharge Modifier, meaning the downtime isn't actually 10 minutes.

I don't think the recharge matters much. IIRC, the recharge boost is something like 27%, which would only reduce the power's cooldown by 16 seconds. Also, the duration on unleaded potential is also 60s and has no recharge boost.

 

IMO, if they are going to standardize all the T5 origin pool powers to 1000s, they should also standardize them to 90s duration. 

[Aracknight]

T2: Toxic Dart (Ranged, Minor DMG(Lethal), High DMG(Toxic))

• You fire a toxic dart at your target causing an very minor amount of immediate lethal damage followed by a High amount of toxic damage over time. Recharge: Moderate

 

I like everything about the power except for its animation.  I was hoping for something like Poison Dart from VEAT Night Widow Training.  We basically got Tranq Dart the Science inherent instead.  Any chance for an alternate animation?

[Duloth]

1: Injection: Liked. Very useful to go along with a patron pool pet or troller/dom pet, or an ally in groups. 

 

2: Dart: Honestly, its a bit -too- good, even with the slightly higher end cost. The animation is a bit sub-par; as someone else already said, using the dart animation from widows as an alternate option would be a great choice to make this look better and I would love that as an option here. Its damage is only slightly better than the competition, but its animation time is half, as well as of a less resisted damage type; while I would only take the other two sets attack powers for style's sake, this dart would be a viable part of the attack chain for some characters(Especially MMs; many MMs starter attacks are weaker than this). This is the only attack power between the three sets I would take and use regularly as-is, even with the bad animation... which, unfortunately, probably means it needs to be nerfed a bit. 

 

3: Speed of Sound: The greatest weakness of super-speed murdered and done away with; by a zero activation time teleport built-in. Unlike the super-jump clone that seems simply superior to superjump, there are actually downsides here in the lack of stealth, but this is a great alternative to super-speed and I can easily see each being a good option for different builds. 

 

4: Corrosive Vial: The damage is good enough for me to use it and take it, better than many epic alternatives, while the recharge is long enough to keep it out of my attack chains. Decent.

 

5: Adrenal Booster: Not incredible, but highly useful buff; like a mid-grade build-everything-up. Useful in almost every situation, and would definitely take it and slot it for recharge. 

 

Overall; this is a well-built set I could easily see myself taking, and unlike the competition, actually having a use for everything in it on some of my characters. If you leave it the way it is, its probably the set I'll take on any character I'm not specifically building a theme on. 

[Bossk_Hogg]

56 minutes ago, Duloth said:

2: Dart: Honestly, its a bit -too- good, even with the slightly higher end cost. The animation is a bit sub-par; as someone else already said, using the dart animation from widows as an alternate option would be a great choice to make this look better and I would love that as an option here. Its damage is only slightly better than the competition, but its animation time is half, as well as of a less resisted damage type; while I would only take the other two sets attack powers for style's sake, this dart would be a viable part of the attack chain for some characters(Especially MMs; many MMs starter attacks are weaker than this). This is the only attack power between the three sets I would take and use regularly as-is, even with the bad animation... which, unfortunately, probably means it needs to be nerfed a bit. 

I'm sorry, but "this power is worth slotting and using" seems a terrible reason to nerf it. The others should ahve their damage upped/animation cut/recharge adjusted to make them worth of being in attack chains as well. The requirement that all pool attacks be subpar is an old design element that should be stamped out. Boxing/Kick etc all need a review and their recharge upped to avoid penalizing people for thematic choices when they could just as easily pick another power instead. 

 

 

[Duloth]

43 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

I'm sorry, but "this power is worth slotting and using" seems a terrible reason to nerf it. The others should ahve their damage upped/animation cut/recharge adjusted to make them worth of being in attack chains as well. The requirement that all pool attacks be subpar is an old design element that should be stamped out. Boxing/Kick etc all need a review and their recharge upped to avoid penalizing people for thematic choices when they could just as easily pick another power instead. 

 

 

Honestly, I'd love it if all of the pool powers and the most basic offensive powers of the various sets were all at roughly the same level when you played a given AT so that your thematic choice would not lead to a significant decrease in effectiveness. If it were entirely up to me, I'd go through all of the pool powers and primaries, pick the couple that had the best performance, and then normalize all the rest to that level. 

 

I don't think thats what the homecoming team is going for, however; and if you leave this powerset as-is without augmenting others, that will be the only attack power out of the sets that gets used due to effectiveness reasons. So yes... I'd prefer the others be buffed, primarily with a shorter casting time.

[oedipus_tex]

This is overall pretty cool. Very excited to see some new sets out there.

 

I admit I am slightly (but only slightly) disappointed by Adrenaline Booster. I had hoped we finally had a power that was competitive with Hasten, that couldn't stack with Hasten. Basically something with a slightly lower recharge (say +45% instead of +70%) but some other bonuses to make up for it. Would make builds a lot more interesting if Hasten wasn't always a top choice.

 

Overall though very fun. And the teleport feels great.

[Replacement]

I keep trying to think of good criticisms to post here but nothing terribly interesting yet.  I enjoy the set.  I agree with @oedipus_tex - Jaunt feels great.  Part of that is the sound of it.  It feels and sounds snappy and just all over neat.

I like the recharge on Corrosive Vial.  This feels just right for a power pool that's actually allowed to -gasp!- have an effect on combat. 

 

I do have to say, though, we have officially implemented the 2 origin sets I care about the most (utility belt and gadgetry) last. 

[csr]

The only complaint I have about the set is that the lack of a hover component on Jaunt makes it hard to use for vertical travel.  Without it you can't use the trick of aiming for the top edge of a ledge or railing and using the hover component to get on top of it - you just fall straight to the ground.  As a result you either need to stop and adjust your camera so you can hit the higher level or tp up above it and fall down.  And since Jaunt can't be chained, that isn't always possible.  For example: I couldn't get up the bluff in Talos from the docks by Andrea Mitchell with Jaunt, I had to find a place not too steep to climb.  This means the added bonus travel in this set is far less useful than that in Sorcery as it doesn't really up your speed (which it does to a large degree in Sorcery) or vertical travel capability by much.

Edited February 27, 2020 by csr

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, csr said:

The only complaint I have about the set is that the lack of a hover component on Jaunt makes it hard to use for vertical travel.  Without it you can't use the trick of aiming for the top edge of a ledge or railing and using the hover component to get on top of it - you just fall straight to the ground.  As a result you either need to stop and adjust your camera so you can hit the higher level or tp up above it and fall down.  And since Jaunt can't be chained, that isn't always possible.  For example: I couldn't get up the bluff in Talos from the docks by Andrea Mitchell with Jaunt, I had to find a place not too steep to climb.  This means the added bonus travel in this set is far less useful than that in Sorcery as it doesn't really up your speed (which it does to a large degree in Sorcery) or vertical travel capability by much.

These powers need to NOT make the original four travel powers obsolete.

[Bopper]

48 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

These powers need to NOT make the original four travel powers obsolete.

They won't. You are still limited to 4 pools. So it's really up to those who are gonna take Hasten, or Hover, or Combat Jumping to decide if they can fit in these travel powers as well. A lot of folks take fighting pool, leadership, Hasten, and either hover or combat jumping. So something has to give if you take an origin pool. Some will do it, others won't. But the original travel powers wont ever be obsolete.

[csr]

On 2/27/2020 at 1:02 PM, Wavicle said:

These powers need to NOT make the original four travel powers obsolete.

Well, in that case Sorcery's Mystic Flight and Force of Will's Mighty Leap fail the test. Each is exactly the same as its travel pool equivalent and then has a nice bonus power on top of that.

 

By comparison Speed of Sound doesn't match Super Speed as you don't get the stealth.  And the bonus power has two major drawbacks that Translocation didn't get.  First, it has a cooldown.  And second, it lacks the hover component like Translocation while not being tied to a primary power that provides +Fly, resulting in the loss of utility that I noted before.  Furthermore, a tp power on SoS is of less value to begin with, since SoS is much faster than Mystic Flight.

 

As a result I'd say SoS is inferior to Super Speed despite the bonus power.  I'd be OK with that, if it weren't for the two previous Origin pool travel powers being better than their travel pool equivalents.  The best fix for this may in fact be to buff Fly and Super Jump so that Mystic Flight and Mighty Leap are inferior to them as SoS is inferior to SS.

 

[Edit:]

To be clear though, I still think Jaunt is just plain bad.  It's better than nothing and free save for the activation time and END cost, but in an absolute sense, it's just plain bad.

Edited February 28, 2020 by csr

[Vanden]

When the origin pools were designed by Paragon, they were going to be microtransaction pools. That alone would've prevented them from making the original travel power pools obsolete, while also justifying them being slightly better.

[Wavicle]

On 2/27/2020 at 1:53 PM, Bopper said:

They won't. You are still limited to 4 pools. So it's really up to those who are gonna take Hasten, or Hover, or Combat Jumping to decide if they can fit in these travel powers as well. A lot of folks take fighting pool, leadership, Hasten, and either hover or combat jumping. So something has to give if you take an origin pool. Some will do it, others won't. But the original travel powers wont ever be obsolete.

It's really only Teleport I'm concerned about. As you point out, those other sets have nice utility powers in them. The good utility in the TP pool has all been devalued by prestige powers and such.

Making the original TP closer to Jaunt in activation speed would help.

[Bopper]

13 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

It's really only Teleport I'm concerned about. As you point out, those other sets have nice utility powers in them. The good utility in the TP pool has all been devalued by prestige powers and such.

Making the original TP closer to Jaunt in activation speed would help.

As long as there are Stone Armor players, teleport will have a purpose. But I too would like to see Jaunt become the new teleport

[Rinswind]

Agreed that if all the T5's are going to have a 10min recharge, they should all share the same duration as well. Rune of Protection is also significantly more useful on average than the other T5's in these sets and yet it has the longest duration as well? Confusing. Either make them all 90 or all 60 imo. Preferably 90 of course.

[General Idiot]

I forgot to post this before but a possible bug with Corrosive Vial: If the targeted enemy dies the damage patch dies with them, but the graphical effect for it remains for the full duration. One or other of those is a bug, I assume.

[JayboH]

41 minutes ago, General Idiot said:

I forgot to post this before but a possible bug with Corrosive Vial: If the targeted enemy dies the damage patch dies with them, but the graphical effect for it remains for the full duration. One or other of those is a bug, I assume.

I mentioned this earlier today on the alpha forums.  I could have sworn I corpse-blasted an enemy and the power never activated which is a rather bad problem considering it is a targeted AOE that lingers.

[biostem]

Does the toxic dart power have a similar ~2 second cast time as arcane bolt and project will?  If so, please consider lowering them slightly, as it makes them very undesirable to use in team content.  I'm all for more power options, though, so great work!

[Bopper]

6 minutes ago, biostem said:

Does the toxic dart power have a similar ~2 second cast time as arcane bolt and project will?  If so, please consider lowering them slightly, as it makes them very undesirable to use in team content.  I'm all for more power options, though, so great work!

I think it's closer to 1.07s