Thoughts on 'repel' powers?

[khy]

Force Bubble, Hurricane, etc. Powers that don't just knockback enemies but physically shove them back.

 

I kind of hate them.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if there was an IO to change that part of the power into something that DOESN'T scatter groups of mobs?

 

EDIT - To elaborate, a good example is Hurricane. Hurricane's kind of an important part of a /storm build since it has a large tohit debuff to apply to enemies. Combined with Steamy Mist, it's one of the only two real 'survival' powers the set has. Using it is difficult though as you have to carefully 'herd' enemies with it, trying only to touch the edge lest you scatter them all around you and drastically mess up AoEs. It goes from a useful tool with the -tohit to a liability with the repel. Take Repel out of the equation, and suddenly it becomes a useful PBAoE debuff power.

 

Likewise with force bubble - take out the repel and you get a good PBAoE knockback power. With a KB to KD IO it becomes a useful toggle ability.

 

Now I'm sure there's people out there who prefer the ability with the repel, and that's fine. S'why I think an IO that changes the repel to some other ability would be handy and make the power a LOT more useful for those who don't like repel, without upsetting those who do like it.

Edited November 13, 2020 by khy

[Hyperstrike]

For ranged attackers and non-Tank/Brute/Scrapper types, KB/Repel powers are valid mitigation.
Yes, in team situations, it's not so necessary.

But solo?  Kicking people out to range isn't a huge downside.

[Vanden]

Hate 'em. They stink.

[Luminara]

They're repulsive.

 

Come on.  No-one got to that before I did?  Slow morning, apparently.

 

They'd be more utilitarian as location-targeted AoE area denial powers.

[Herotu]

As a giant fan of knockback I think repel powers are lazy and boring tbh. Too powerful. Especially ForceFields. IMHO that whole concept needs a rethink from the ground up.

[Six-Six]

First time I played FF on a Fender, I slotted KB-KD into Repulsion field... and it broke it.

I agree with Hyperstike. KB and Repel while solo is very useful. On teams, I often switch a sudden acc IO (because the set bonuses aren't bad) with the KB-KD. Then I learned to use Repel (and Hurricane) to herd effectively by running around the perimeter like a sheep dog rounding the flock.

[Carnifax]

Certainly I'd love a -repel IO as as option. Maybe with a 20% chance for knockdown just to give it additional flavour.

 

Thing is, would Hurricane be too strong with no repel? The -ToHit on it is pretty monstrous.

 

I too love herdicaning on my Plant/Storm so not sure if I'd use it but the option would be nice. I've left teams where a Bots/FF wouldn't switch their repel bubble off. 

[Force Redux]

I like Repel. My experience is generally with FFs Force Bubble. My wish is that the radius could be adjusted. Perhaps the power choice could yield three child powers with different radii: 10', 20' and 30'? It's a very unwieldy tool on many maps. 

[Blastit]

Repel is a design choice that wasn't implemented perfectly but that shouldn't be essentially removed so you can have another godmode aura. If you want to use Hurricane to debuff large groups without scattering them everywhere then you're just going to have to get good at using Hurricane. Let's have some possible skill in the game so that it's not just about copying the best IO build.

[jubakumbi]

Love them all.

Repel and KB rule.

IME, anyone that is all up in arms about not having the groups in tight bunches is simply no fun to play games with, and not a loss for me if they don't like me because of that outlook.

The possible levels of chaos is this game are a ton of fun to me, in teams, solo, does not matter.

 

IMO, missions are not a time sensitive task that must be finished using some specific play-formula to maximize profits, that's a Job.

 

I'd rather literally be forced to play alone through /gignore than to have to play with people that get uptight about Repel and KB, life is too short to play games with crabby people.

[The_Warpact]

I love Hurricane but I only use it on GM/AV or when soloed, use it to push stuff into a corner and let the zombies snack on them lol. 

 

 

 

[Troo]

Keeping some different flavors of powers sets is preferred over making everything the same.

 

I HATE combo mechanics, so I just don't play Street Justice, Dual Blades, etc..

I don't begrudge those that do UNTIL they start advocating to proliferate that 'flavor' to Stone Melee or Energy Melee.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Troo

[roleki]

1 hour ago, Force Redux said:

I like Repel. My experience is generally with FFs Force Bubble. My wish is that the radius could be adjusted. Perhaps the power choice could yield three child powers with different radii: 10', 20' and 30'? It's a very unwieldy tool on many maps. 

Love the idea of dial-a-bubble; one of the many joys of running my Fire/FF controllers is just zipping around a zone with Force Bubble, ticking off mobs and drawing them into the murder spot... because the power is essentially useless outside of that.  Having a smaller radius would allow for more precise execution, but, I would hate to lose the big bubble, because...it IS fun at times.

Edited November 13, 2020 by roleki

[Force Redux]

7 minutes ago, roleki said:

Love the idea of dial-a-bubble; one of the many joys of running my Fire/FF controllers is just zipping around a zone with Force Bubble, ticking off mobs and drawing them into the murder spot... because the power is essentially useless outside of that.  Having a smaller radius would allow for more precise execution, but, I would hate to lose the big bubble, because...it IS fun at times.

That's why I'd love to see the power selection give you three separate powers! Just like Adaption does in BIo, the choice gives you three exclusive toggles to choose from, with small, medium and large radiii...same power, but choose the best size for the job/map. 🙂 Also, reduce the power cost to 0.36 END/sec and it's just fine. Please devs, make it so! 😁

[Ironblade]

They have a purpose.  My girlfriend took a repel power and says it's extremely useful in some of the incarnate trials (which she runs a lot of).

[johnnysc]

1 hour ago, Ironblade said:

 My girlfriend took a repel power ...

I thought this was a setup for a joke. 🙂

[Luminara]

Now I find myself wondering what kind of insane hilarity would occur if someone with a Repel PBAoE were to use Fold Space...

 

[Twisted Toon]

Agent Knockback uses repulsion Field when he's teamed with a fellow squishy ranged Agent.

He stands next to them with Repulsion field on and blasts away a the bad guys that haven't given up yet.

 

Back on live, a friend of mine once toggled on Repel and then targeted a hellion and selected follow...

[Greycat]

I find them useful. Especially when facing things that have KB resistance that I need to move somewhere... since they typically don't have repel resistance. (Or, IIRC, cleaning up the times immobs have left mobs strung out.) They're a slower, more controllable repositioning power than knockback for groups. I kind of wish I could grab one more often.

 

I do agree with the idea of "change Force Bubble's radius to match Dispersion's," as it makes it a little more awkward to use currently.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Greycat

[@Ghost]

Situationally really interesting and kinda underexplored. I remember people asking for "reverse Repel" as a vacuum effect and it wasn't technically possible, but with stuff like vectored knockback now, maybe it could be?

[Greycat]

14 minutes ago, @Ghost said:

Situationally really interesting and kinda underexplored. I remember people asking for "reverse Repel" as a vacuum effect and it wasn't technically possible, but with stuff like vectored knockback now, maybe it could be?

I've only seen this happen once -

 

I was on a - probably task force at one point. I don't recall characters, power sets, anything, really, but I and one other character attacked an enemy at the same time. Might have been with two KBing attacks. The target started sliding after and into the other person. (I *want* to say they were held, it was something *really* obviously not the NPC's natural movement.) Only lasted a few seconds, but it was amusing.

 

Also, we may not have a vacuum effect, but check out the AOE TP Foe we're getting. My warshades are just *giddy* waiting for this to go live.

[Luminara]

26 minutes ago, @Ghost said:

Situationally really interesting and kinda underexplored. I remember people asking for "reverse Repel" as a vacuum effect and it wasn't technically possible, but with stuff like vectored knockback now, maybe it could be?

 

Knockback has always been vectored, or at least always since '05, with the character or pseudo-pet's position being the vector point.

[@Ghost]

16 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I've only seen this happen once -

 

I was on a - probably task force at one point. I don't recall characters, power sets, anything, really, but I and one other character attacked an enemy at the same time. Might have been with two KBing attacks. The target started sliding after and into the other person. (I *want* to say they were held, it was something *really* obviously not the NPC's natural movement.) Only lasted a few seconds, but it was amusing.

 

Also, we may not have a vacuum effect, but check out the AOE TP Foe we're getting. My warshades are just *giddy* waiting for this to go live.

That makes me wonder if it was the Ki Push thing from Martial Combat. It's pretty weird with a repel effect and kinda sounds like what you're describing.

 

And yeah, I'm lowkey interested in seeing what Fold Space can do. That and the Combat TP type powers are really cool implementations of the mechanic and feel way more appropriate for a superhero game than something like TP Foe.

3 minutes ago, Luminara said:

Knockback has always been vectored, or at least always since '05, with the character or pseudo-pet's position being the vector point.

I meant the new tech from around April Fools, where Brawl was sending stuff flying in all sorts of fun directions rather than just back from your position.

[srmalloy]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

Knockback has always been vectored, or at least always since '05, with the character or pseudo-pet's position being the vector point.

But it's a little immersion breaking to fire M30 Grenade at a mob at the back of a spawn and see all the mobs in the spawn fly away from you, driven by the blast behind them.

[Luminara]

1 minute ago, srmalloy said:

But it's a little immersion breaking to fire M30 Grenade at a mob at the back of a spawn and see all the mobs in the spawn fly away from you, driven by the blast behind them.

 

I didn't program it, I just tested, manipulated and abused it.