issue 27 Patch Notes for April 20th, 2021 - Issue 27, Page 2

[Bopper]

14 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Or a pet, even the little vet pet.  Seems kinda unfair to MMs, Controllers, Doms, Crabsterminds, and other pet heavy builds.

In fairness, toggles didn't work when the power made you OAS. 

[Bionic_Flea]

I understand the reason, I don't like the result. 

 

I was thinking of taking stealth pool on more characters.  I don't think I have any with it now.  But I'm not convinced.  Inconsistent stealth and defense is not something I want, however rational their reasons might be.  Too bad; Infiltration sounded cool.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Bionic_Flea

[macskull]

Rad Melee Stalker changes need to specify the changes are PvP-only.

[dtj714]

20 minutes ago, Bopper said:

In fairness, toggles didn't work when the power made you OAS. 

Was the OAS component some sort of big problem?  So you could only use self-affecting powers (or they became only self-affecting, like for Leadership) in exchange for basically being undetectable. Seems like a fair trade. It’s not like the OAS status on Afterburner, where you had to actually de-activate to do anything outside yourself. 
 

Edit: It seems sort of silly to have to ask, but given all the variables, could we get some sort of table or graph indicating what, if any, portion(s) of both the stealth and defense components will be suppressed or cancelled altogether under various conditions? 

Edited April 22, 2021 by dtj714
New info

[Gobbledygook]

20 hours ago, Sarrate said:

 

The mad bastards did it. They buffed Regen.

 

That specific word combination has confused my brain. 

[Bopper]

25 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Edit: It seems sort of silly to have to ask, but given all the variables, could we get some sort of table or graph indicating what, if any, portion(s) of both the stealth and defense components will be suppressed or cancelled altogether under various conditions?

Here you go. This is what is currently on HC.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.invisibility.stealth&at=blaster

[Scarydino369]

Updates that increase movement speed are always welcome in my book. I'll be curious to see what they think of next for Masterminds...

Any chance dinosaur, plant, or medieval  (3 peasants with spears, 2 men-at-arms, 1 mounted knight) goons would be considered for them? Or perhaps a dartgun secondary that's more about poison and sleep effects?

Love to see the enthusiasm to improve on a game I used to play in 5th grade.

[dtj714]

3 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Here you go. This is what is currently on HC.

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=pool.invisibility.stealth&at=blaster

Sorry, I meant for what it’s “supposed” to do (once fixed), not the currently bugged implementation. We’ve seen dev posts indicating certain things are not WAI or are going to be changed, but with multiple layers of both stealth and defense being impacted by different things, it would be nice to have something showing their intentions comprehensively. 

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Sorry, I meant for what it’s “supposed” to do (once fixed), not the currently bugged implementation. We’ve seen dev posts indicating certain things are not WAI or are going to be changed, but with multiple layers of both stealth and defense being impacted by different things, it would be nice to have something showing their intentions comprehensively. 

Jump on the next round of testing on the beta server so we can improve the game together. They'll be plenty of patch notes and data tables for everyone 😁

[Bopper]

11 minutes ago, dtj714 said:

Sorry, I meant for what it’s “supposed” to do (once fixed), not the currently bugged implementation. We’ve seen dev posts indicating certain things are not WAI or are going to be changed, but with multiple layers of both stealth and defense being impacted by different things, it would be nice to have something showing their intentions comprehensively. 

From what I read from Dev comments today. Basically remove the 19 ft stealth you see in that link, then replace the 36 with 55 in the next row.

 

Defense won't change other than maybe the fact using any power shouldn't suppress it. But attacking someone or commanding a pet or helping an ally will suppress

[Wavicle]

Too bad Repulsion Bomb didn't get a look this time around. 3.07 activation is rather long. Hopefully FF is on the slate to be looked at, I consider it the weakest of all Support sets and it is the one (1) that I haven't rolled on any AT.

[Chance Jackson]

was breaking the emote macros really necessary?

[Spectre7878]

So I am standing in  zone with my combat attributes open and when I turn on each toggle my defense drops a good 20%. Then it goes back up. I don’t think my defense so go down just for turn on a toggle. What’s the point of having stealth when my powers such as distribution aura, scorpion shield, or assault suppresses my defense out of combat.  
 

I just went near some foes. To see what happens with my defense and as soon as my aura hit them my defense dropped. So that make sense. If that’s how it should be working. 
 

Eating an inspiration should not suppress defense while out of combat. That’s just silly. 
 

I guess I am trying wrap my head around this change. I mean we use all the io sets to build up our characters defense and now we get stripped of them when using powers. 

 

Also. It would be great for pop up telling us when we are invisible. Like stalkers have hide. 

[arcane]

14 hours ago, ForceMajeure said:

 

Yeah, rendered the skill almost unusable at this point, esp with the exp Marksman pvp-set. Not going to be using this. 😕

That’s absurd. You can dislike this change as many do, but to claim your most damaging attack is unusable if it has the same exact range as all of your other attacks is an utterly ridiculous statement. There is no logical/rational reason that would render any meaningful snipe actually bad - only slightly less amazing.

 

You guys need to at least try to base hyperbole in a hint of reality.

Edited April 22, 2021 by arcane

[arcane]

8 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Too bad Repulsion Bomb didn't get a look this time around. 3.07 activation is rather long. Hopefully FF is on the slate to be looked at, I consider it the weakest of all Support sets and it is the one (1) that I haven't rolled on any AT.

I do think an occasional long animation is justified - Bitter Freeze Ray comes to mind due to the surrounding set already being top tier - but yes, IMO, they should be directing these tweaks at the sets in need as they did with Assault Rifle. And as we’ve discussed, Force Field should just about top the list of sets in need.

[Troo]

The replacement of OAS with OOC is bugged.

All the powers with a similar change should be looked at for the same bugs/issues folks are catching.

 

Suggestion:

I am in agreement with those who have said a visual effect should occur for these in and out of combat scenarios. If we are running two of these the defense swings could be substantial.

 

51 minutes ago, arcane said:

That’s absurd. You can dislike this change as many do, but to claim your most damaging attack is unusable if it has the same exact range as all of your other attacks is an utterly ridiculous statement. There is no logical/rational reason that would render any meaningful snipe actually bad - only slightly less amazing.

 

You guys need to at least try to base hyperbole in a hint of reality.

Folks get to have their opinion.

Some changes are weakly justified. Some changes are improvements. Some changes have negative impacts. Accept it for what it is and that the impact will vary player to player. YMMV

 

[arcane]

2 minutes ago, Troo said:

Folks get to have their opinion.

Some changes are weakly justified. Some changes are improvements. Some changes have negative impacts. Accept it for what it is and that the impact will vary player to player. YMMV

 

And it’s my opinion that implying that a slight downward tweak - to what will inevitably still be your best single target attack by the numbers - renders the power worthless is approximately as rational, as, say, if someone said Inferno would be rendered worthless if it’s base damage were hypothetically adjusted from like ~400 to ~380. That is to say, I find it so utterly detached from numerical realities that the statement can’t logically have had any real purpose but that of a blind tantrum.

[Troo]

9 minutes ago, arcane said:

And it’s my opinion that implying that a slight downward tweak - to what will inevitably still be your best single target attack by the numbers - renders the power worthless is approximately as rational, as, say, if someone said Inferno would be rendered worthless if it’s base damage were hypothetically adjusted from like ~400 to ~380. That is to say, I find it so utterly detached from numerical realities that the statement can’t logically have had any real purpose but that of a blind tantrum.

Yeah that all makes sense. Just know that numerical 'realities' don't always translate to everyone's tactics, play style, or fun.

 

[Arbegla]

@Faultline Is there a way to default the visual effect for Stealth be the Invisibility visual effect, as it does render you basically 'Invisible' if its not suppressed, and then have the normal Stealth visual effect happen if you're suppressed? I think that is how the visual effect of Invisibility worked before, and that might go a long way to helping people understand when they are actually being suppressed or not.

 

The OAS change to an Out of Combat change is an overall buff, it just seems weird because the visuals don't line up, and the triggers for "Out of Combat" aren't as well defined.

 

I suspect the patch to Stealth is going to be released soon, as its simply something that wasn't tested very well in the Beta, which is understandable, as Invisibility was normally taken just as a LoTG Mule, and not actually used that often, but Stealth was taken, AND used a lot.

[arcane]

20 minutes ago, Troo said:

Yeah that all makes sense. Just know that numerical 'realities' don't always translate to everyone's tactics, play style, or fun.

 

Fair and true, yes. Acknowledged.

[Uun]

Not sure if this is a bug or working as intended. While I can now run Combat Jumping at the same time as Super Jump or Ninja Run, the effects don't stack. Looking at the Movement tab of Combat Attributes with Combat Jumping on, toggling on Super Jump or Ninja Run causes Combat Jumping to disappear from the list of powers/set bonuses contributing to Jump Speed and Jump Height. I expected the additional jump height to be additive. Am I just retaining the defense and immobilize protection?

[Arbegla]

9 minutes ago, Uun said:

Not sure if this is a bug or working as intended. While I can now run Combat Jumping at the same time as Super Jump or Ninja Run, the effects don't stack. Looking at the Movement tab of Combat Attributes with Combat Jumping on, toggling on Super Jump or Ninja Run causes Combat Jumping to disappear from the list of powers/set bonuses contributing to Jump Speed and Jump Height. I expected the additional jump height to be additive. Am I just retaining the defense and immobilize protection?

 

Short answer is yes, Because Super Jump and Ninja run provide more +jump then Combat Jumping, it 'overrides' that effect, but you do retain the other benefits of combat jumping.

[UberGuy]

2 hours ago, Spectre7878 said:

I guess I am trying wrap my head around this change. I mean we use all the io sets to build up our characters defense and now we get stripped of them when using powers. 

 

To be clear, no defense granted by any IOs is being stripped, at all.

 

If you're just talking about these new-ish powers that give you defense but let you act,  remember that what they're replacing prevented you affecting friends or foes, so the defense they granted came at a high functional price. That price has been removed - if we could fight while unconditionally keeping the full defense these new versions of old powers grant, the devs would just plain be giving us new sources of in-combat defense that we did not have before.

 

I think a lot of us feel that the bonus defense in these powers is so trivially suppressed it might as well not be there, but let's see where things go.

 

 

[UberGuy]

7 minutes ago, Uun said:

Not sure if this is a bug or working as intended. While I can now run Combat Jumping at the same time as Super Jump or Ninja Run, the effects don't stack. Looking at the Movement tab of Combat Attributes with Combat Jumping on, toggling on Super Jump or Ninja Run causes Combat Jumping to disappear from the list of powers/set bonuses contributing to Jump Speed and Jump Height. I expected the additional jump height to be additive. Am I just retaining the defense and immobilize protection?

 

As @Arbegla says, it's because the best power now wins. Remember, you could not run these together before. The intent is not to change them to be stackable when they weren't before - it's to let us get the bet of all of them at the same time when run together.

[Troo]

We're running into a user experience that conflicts with the spreadsheet design.

 

We are running a power that has, in this case, has a jumping value. Then we are going to add another power (now two powers running) that has additional jumping value.

 

1+2=3

not

1+2=2

 

While I understand what is happening, I think we are failing to acknowledge what is intuitive.