Triage Beacon (AKA that traps power everyone skips)

[Shred Monkey]

This power needs some love.  Currently gives it puts down a stationary pet that gives +150% regen in a 40 ft radius.  Base recharge is 200s.  There's just not really much use for this power.  It's cheap, and it lasts a long time, but if it's not useful, who cares?

 

I'm thinking if they added some status protections or even DDR to it would make this an useful power to the ATs that get it.   Maybe if you turn the +regen into a pulsing heal-over-time so the melee teammates come back to it for a quick heal up if in trouble while the squishies can hang out near it for the status protection. 

 

Given the downsides of the long recharge and immobility, it just needs to have a much better upside.

 

 

[arcane]

Not seeing it.. none of my trappers skip it because it’s an easy survivability boost and can even stack. Is there any data behind the parenthetical assumption in the thread title?

[TraumaTrain]

Neither of my two trappers skipped it either. It would be cool, though, if it followed you around like the Force Field Generator. That in itself would be plenty of benefit. Take away the recharge and just have it as a floating "generator" that follows you around. 

[ZorkNemesis]

Protip for people who take it: the Panacea proc works in it, as in it can potentially heal/restore endurance to anyone within the aura.  Sure, everyone just drops Panacea into Health, but in Triage Beacon it can help make the power a little more effective.

 

Also works in Spirit Tree, Soothing Aura, and Lifegiving Spores.

[TombTyrant]

My anecdotal experience doesn't sync with this position. If I am teamed with a trapper, they usually have it.

[Crysis]

10 hours ago, ZorkNemesis said:

Protip for people who take it: the Panacea proc works in it, as in it can potentially heal/restore endurance to anyone within the aura.  Sure, everyone just drops Panacea into Health, but in Triage Beacon it can help make the power a little more effective.

 

Also works in Spirit Tree, Soothing Aura, and Lifegiving Spores.

I’ve done this but never sure if it works better there or in Health for me.  Just doesn’t seem to proc much in Beacon.

[Carnifax]

I have it on my Thugs / Traps cos it's better than nothing. But the recharge on it is really silly for what it is. My Ice/Traps didn't bother and has never missed it. It's a very meh power. 

 

Lowering the recharge and lifespan of it would go a long way to making it more available. Ticks of Absorb a la Temporal Healing could be an interesting addition to it either (at least you could see it doing something then). As-is on teams it pretty much becomes another "drop it, oh we've moved on" thing. 

 

Or just giving Traps some sort of inherent "redeploy" power which acted like an Assemble the Team just for your Traps pseudopets would be interesting too. 

[tidge]

On my Robots/Traps Mastermind I skipped Triage Beacon while leveling, but it came back into the build at the level 50 respec (taken at low level). My experience was that (while leveling) I didn't have the slots to make it as effective as possible and I had alternate priorities to support the henchman (and allies).

 

I find that it helps my specific build quite a bit in x8 content, since I can keep the henchmen where I want them and draw enemies to me. YMMV with fast-moving teams or poorly controlled henchmen/allies.

[roleki]

14 hours ago, arcane said:

Not seeing it.. none of my trappers skip it because it’s an easy survivability boost and can even stack. Is there any data behind the parenthetical assumption in the thread title?

 

It's old data, but this thread says 75% of /Traps controllers take Triage Beacon, and a little more than 84% of Corruptors do.   I didn't get to Defenders/MM because I'm on mobile and I'm not into BDSM.

 

ETA:  Now that I am at a desktop, looks like 86.5% of Defenders and 90.09% of Masterminds took Triage Beacon as of 23 months ago or whatever.  

 

In any event, it looks like some people DO skip it outright, but there's also folks like me that take it, slot it for bonuses/effect, but only ever actually deploy it in rare circumstances because it's kind of drab.

Edited September 2, 2021 by roleki

[Sovera]

Yeah, it doesn't do much. People go with their gut feelings and how it has an impact on things, but I rank it same as people who try for more exotic Incarnate choices and are ready to swear they actually impact gameplay.

 

It's not another 10-15 HP regenerated per second that will make a difference unless on the most strained knife edge scenario... and even then someone munching on a purple insp will probably vastly surpass Triage's effect in terms of survival.

 

Either the mission is too easy and dropping it made no difference or it's too hard and dropping it doesn't make a difference.

[Black Zot]

Triage procced with Panacea CAN break sleep effects, but there's a thick layer of RNG preventing that from being reliable protection.

[ZemX]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

Either the mission is too easy and dropping it made no difference or it's too hard and dropping it doesn't make a difference.

 

I think the bigger problem with it is simply the recharge time.  Even if you got to the recharge cap, you're only going to lay this down once every 40s (and realistically it's 50s or worse for most people).  On a good team even at +4/x8 that's probably still every other spawn at best or every third spawn at worst.  So cut whatever this does do in half or a third.  And that's a best case.    AVs/GMs are maybe the only place it sticks around long enough to be useful, but how often is that?

 

And the idea of proccing this is... questionable.  Far as I can tell, the 40ft radius absolutely murders the proc chance.  It's a 9% chance every 10 seconds.  The heal is something like 71hp (if it follows Minion Pet modifier) or 90hp (if it follows Defender values).  Either way it is less than 1hp/sec per person in the field on average.  Panacea is by far more useful in the character's own Health inherent.

 

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

People go with their gut feelings and how it has an impact on things

 

This is my impression browsing that link from @roleki.  I know Stalkers more than anything else, so I went browsing through and was astonished to see anywhere from 50 to 90% of Stalkers taking Placate depending on the powerset.  Nearly any veteran Stalker these days would tell you it's the most skippable power we have.  Not entirely without use but just...   there are so many better choices. Placate hasn't really ever enhanced a Stalker's DPS vs. just continuing to scrap but Issue 22 buried any doubt of that with the addition of Quick AS.  Still, it must be that many people still feel it is thematic or iconic enough that they should take it.  Placate, having been made irrelevant for any DPS boosting use, is now just a single-target "don't hit me" control power on a 60 sec timer.  Not useless, just not nearly as useful as almost anything else you could replace it with in a build.

[DougGraves]

Triage beacon is not useful on steamroller teams.  But about 75% of powers are not useful on steamroller teams. 

[Xenosone]

Its a garbage power in a team setting with the super hyper explody coh. 

Its a gatbage power solo because youre already surviving or not and adjust your difficulty accordingly. 

The stationary aspect combined with its long out time almost works in a dumpster dive scenerio but the same people that think its useful would not agrro and jump in a dumpster like invun of ye olde

 

So just be glad its garbage and you have a slot to free up on anything useful.

[Carnifax]

3 minutes ago, Xenosone said:

Its a garbage power in a team setting with the super hyper explody coh. 

Its a gatbage power solo because youre already surviving or not and adjust your difficulty accordingly. 

The stationary aspect combined with its long out time almost works in a dumpster dive scenerio but the same people that think its useful would not agrro and jump in a dumpster like invun of ye olde

 

So just be glad its garbage and you have a slot to free up on anything useful.

Traps is littered with powers like this though. Web Grenade (if not forced into it), Seekers, Caltrops & Triage are skippable. Time Bomb isn't even remotely close to takable. FFG, Acid Mortar, Poison Trap and Time Bomb are both good and fun though. 

 

Like you said it gives you options elsewhere though, my Ice/Traps got to take a lot out of Sorcery, Teleport and my epic to make a pretty fun character. 

[The_Warpact]

I use caltrops to slow movement while double mortar splats the target, dont take seekers, time bomb, or triage just ineffective for modern playstyle.

I use webby to hold Romulus in place so he doesn't go running all over the place. I try to be mobile, zipping all over dropping this and that while the boys lay down a field of fire on the enemy.

Triage could stand an update imho.

[Li_Sensei]

33 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

Traps is littered with powers like this though. Web Grenade (if not forced into it), Seekers, Caltrops & Triage are skippable. Time Bomb isn't even remotely close to takable. FFG, Acid Mortar, Poison Trap and Time Bomb are both good and fun though.

 

It may well differ on controllers versus MM's though.  Seeker Drones are one of my more constantly used /Traps powers on my Robotics/Traps MM, along with Caltrops.

 

Seekers are the ablative alpha strike absorbers.  Summon them in the middle of a spawn and that nasty pulse of damage at the beginning of a fight goe towards them and not my squishy MM self.

 

Caltrops get dopped under my own feet to take advantage of the fear so nothing's likely to run up to me and *stay there* punching my aforementioned squishy MM self.

 

Then again, my approach on my Bots/Traps is somewhat old fashioned, given that he effectively dates back to Issue 6.

 

Now, if we want to talk about completely skippable /Traps powers - Detonator.....

[Doomguide2005]

     Triage Beacon--> I generally take/took it on my Trappers.  But yes the stationary aspect is a strong downside.  That said I also think it's getting some undeserved hating on.  150% is the base unenhanced value for one Beacon.  For an  immobile fight vs an AV.  Getting two enhanced Beacons cast for ~+600% regen is not difficult or inconsequential in such a fight.  

     Seeker Drones --> suffers from the same problem a lot a -damage powers suffer from namely being under appreciated.  The potential debuff here is over 50% only slightly less than the total debuff from Poisons Weaken plus Venomous Gases and safely exceeds Darkest Night.  It is an excellent Alpha breaker.   

     Time Bomb --> okay now here's the real winner (yes your sarcasm meter just went bonkers).  

     Web Grenade --> sue me,  I like making idiot runners like Rommy sit still.  But it only takes a slot or three to scratch that itch.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Doomguide2005
Clarify

[Vanden]

18 hours ago, ZorkNemesis said:

Protip for people who take it: the Panacea proc works in it, as in it can potentially heal/restore endurance to anyone within the aura.

 

I have to imagine that with the 40-foot radius, the proc rate is terrible.

[TheZag]

Also taking a power is much different then using a power in this City of Set Bonuses.

 

I took triage beacon back in the day to use it.  Now if i take it, its mostly because i want a certain bonus without taking a pool power.

[Techwright]

23 hours ago, TraumaTrain said:

Neither of my two trappers skipped it either. It would be cool, though, if it followed you around like the Force Field Generator. That in itself would be plenty of benefit. Take away the recharge and just have it as a floating "generator" that follows you around. 

You do that, though, and the plant people are going to want a floating terrarium for their healing tree.  Not that I'd mind, but I can just see the petitions coming.

[TraumaTrain]

43 minutes ago, Techwright said:

You do that, though, and the plant people are going to want a floating terrarium for their healing tree.  Not that I'd mind, but I can just see the petitions coming.

 

I'm okay with trees that shamble along with their druids.

[arcane]

9 hours ago, DougGraves said:

Triage beacon is not useful on steamroller teams.  But about 75% of powers are not useful on steamroller teams. 

This. If “well it’s hard to get use out of it when everything is dead in 2 seconds” is your argument, well I don’t see much of a problem there. Your XP bar, HP bar, etc sure don’t take issue with that “problem”.

 

Also, I remain unconvinced that its effects are actually weak.

Edited September 3, 2021 by arcane

[DougGraves]

For an actual suggestion - it could be made a toggle with a long (but shorter than now) recharge that applies after it is toggled off.

 

So you can keep triage beacon going as long as you want in place, but then have a 60 second recharge after you turn it off.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, DougGraves said:

For an actual suggestion - it could be made a toggle with a long (but shorter than now) recharge that applies after it is toggled off.

 

So you can keep triage beacon going as long as you want in place, but then have a 60 second recharge after you turn it off.

That would be a nerf since you couldn’t stack it anymore