General Feedback: Issue 27, Page 3

[ZorkNemesis]

Looking at the patch notes...

• Plant Manipulation > Entangle (Blasters): Immob magnitude was too high, reduced to mag 3.

Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned this when talking about Stone Prison also having mag 4 immob.  Gonna miss being able to root bosses in one go.

[Wavicle]

48 minutes ago, Gwyrddu said:

Has hitting with these two powers ever been a problem though? It's already the most reliable way to take an opponent out of a fight. I'd think number two alone would be sufficient, since the real problem is that it slows down groups and as a solo survival tool it's already actually pretty good.

 

No, but it would just be an extra bonus.

 

37 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

Wouldn't it be easier to just make it a toggle?

People prefer it as a click so the recharge starts right away.

[EmperorSteele]

I say leave the p2w buffs as they are. If the discussion started with someone saying "its not fair that I bought these and I lose time by VOLUNTARILY joining a TF with temp powers disabled", then that logic is flawed. It's completely fair. You bought the full time on those powers, and are now choosing to run content that they don't work in.

 

I mean, I'm not completely against the idea of turning them into that big of an inf sink, but I just know I probably wouldn't use them to supercharge new alts anymore, as I'd go broke REALLY fast. 

[WindDemon21]

7 hours ago, Wavicle said:

The change to Sleeps gave me an idea. A possible fix for the powers Sonic Cage and Detention Field.

 

 

1. Sonic Cage and Detention Field are now Auto Hit in PvE.

 

2. Taking Sonic Cage or Detention Field also gives you another power (Sonic Key or Force Key) that removes the Cage or Field and can only be used on the target of your Cage or Field.

 

Done.

 

 

And give Black Hole the Dimension Shift treatment.

I'd prefer them to just be made standard holds with high - Speed/ rech/ dam/ regen values to give the sets something more useful and not be annoying to other teammates.

[Dispari]

New Cim changes and new areas are cool. I like Valeria's island, and you can find cyclopses (cyclopsi?) and minotaurs if you know where to look. I found a few of the badges just running around going to obvious places. Hopefully we'll see an expansion of things to do in this zone in the future.

I did also post about this in the badges thread but I'm not sure where it goes: Cim isn't a valid LRT destination, and it probably should be.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Dispari

[Glacier Peak]

Where is the added context that Amplifiers used to cost real money back on legacy? Like $1/hr for the boost! These boosts are OP anyways, the cost justifies the resulting boost. I get people feeling incongruent with the proposed change though.

[Bopper]

24 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Where is the added context that Amplifiers used to cost real money back on legacy? Like $1/hr for the boost! These boosts are OP anyways, the cost justifies the resulting boost. I get people feeling incongruent with the proposed change though.

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Offense_Amplifier

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Paragon_Points

[WindDemon21]

Can we also get a quick fix for certain long animation powers like bonfire and repulsion bomb where the shorter cast time of 1.5 seconds already exists in neutron bomb.

 

Another really big one of note is the animation for twilight grasp, Flashfire, and Flash freeze etc which needs to be lowered to at least 1.5 seconds as well if not 1 second. It could easily use that double hand fling that admittedly I hate but focus on bringing the hands to the chest like the current animation has.

 

Another HUGE one too is the cast time for quicksand. 1.5 or 2 seconds could EASILY be shaved OFF of it so it's down to a 1 or 1.5s cast time. The animation alone isn't even/doesn't have to be as long as it is now. Same for radiation infection etc.

 

And if course cut the cast time on ground zero down to the 1s animation that it currently has so you're not literally standing there for 2 seconds after for no reason.

Edited November 17, 2021 by WindDemon21

[Glacier Peak]

35 minutes ago, Bopper said:

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Offense_Amplifier

 

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Paragon_Points

Daaaaayum so just a single one hour charge of the Offensive Amplifier used to cost $1 of real money!! That's insane! Definitely should cost more in game, as the purposed change entails, maybe even more considering it was designed to be so OP that people would have had to spend $1 in real life just to use one hour of it. 

 

Edit: It was $5 for the minimum purchase of 400 PP, but the Offensive Amplifier cost 80 PP to purchase, so $1 a pop.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Glacier Peak

[Bopper]

29 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Daaaaayum so just a single one hour charge of the Offensive Amplifier used to cost $1 of real money!! That's insane! Definitely should cost more in game, as the purposed change entails, maybe even more considering it was designed to be so OP that people would have had to spend $1 in real life just to use one hour of it. 

 

Edit: It was $5 for the minimum purchase of 400 PP, but the Offensive Amplifier cost 80 PP to purchase, so $1 a pop.

Correct, per Amplifier per hour. So $24 to get 8 hours of all 3.

[Glacier Peak]

Just now, Bopper said:

Correct, per Amplifier per hour. So $24 to get 8 hours of all 3.

That makes sense from a greedy-MMO market driven stand point. The Amplifiers are essentially a "make your build amazing at any level" for money. I think it was a terrible decision from a gameplay stand point, but that's all moot here on HC since everything is so cheap in comparison to legacy. Now that the buffs can be paused, it makes sense to increase the price in line with the change. 

[WindDemon21]

54 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

That makes sense from a greedy-MMO market driven stand point. The Amplifiers are essentially a "make your build amazing at any level" for money. I think it was a terrible decision from a gameplay stand point, but that's all moot here on HC since everything is so cheap in comparison to legacy. Now that the buffs can be paused, it makes sense to increase the price in line with the change. 

I'd rather them just not be pausable. Or ideally as I mentioned have them also wear off at certain level marks so you have to rebuy them ie 20, 30, 40, 50.

[Glacier Peak]

28 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

I'd rather them just not be pausable. Or ideally as I mentioned have them also wear off at certain level marks so you have to rebuy them ie 20, 30, 40, 50.

I'm happy with the change. 

[Riverdusk]

I have no problem with the P2W buffs costing more, but with this change they cost exactly the same as before if you are level 50.  The price increase is only for those under level 50.  So, this change seems to be, lets punish the newbies/alts?

[Glacier Peak]

18 minutes ago, Riverdusk said:

I have no problem with the P2W buffs costing more, but with this change they cost exactly the same as before if you are level 50.  The price increase is only for those under level 50.  So, this change seems to be, lets punish the newbies/alts?

That isn't the stated reason behind the change, though that may be how some players take it. I'm sure it will be a change that will surprise some players, but it wasn't done to punish newbies/alts. It was done to balance the ability of pausing a temporary buff. For players that were used to taking the Amplifier route at the lower levels, if these changes go live, they will need to either pay more inf or find an alternative if they don't like the change. 

[DougReyn]

That Amplifier Change feels indeed very odd.

 

So as I understand it, they now don't count down while on a suppressing TF, but otherwise still do. So it's not that they are really controllable toggles right?

If you spend your time waiting for something to form, like Hamidon or iTrials they still tick down?

How much time do you expect them to run longer by not tickining while on disabling content? 10%? 25%? 50%?

 

I usually get 8h of Amps on every new toon. Those last till about LVL35. How much time will I spend during this leveling in content that disables these Amps? 25k%? At least the price increase would suggest that.

 

While at LvL50 the price stays the same.

 

Now on the other hand i would not be sad to see Amps be removed alltogether (or priced extremely expensive, like 50M/h), as they just add even more to the power creep. But i guess that'd get as much resistance as any notion of toning down the invention system 😀

 

But overall I'd rather keep them at an affordable pricing in the lower levels 1-30 and expensive at the higher ones.

 

Suggestion:

Increase the base price to 5k (up from 1k)

Keep the scaling as is (final price then 12.5m/h)

Turn them into fully controllable toggles. No shenanigans with self-banishing or stuff. Full controll over their usage for a way higher price

Limit the max buyable duration to 4h.

[Wavicle]

4 hours ago, Dispari said:

cyclopses (cyclopsi?)

cyclopes (pronounced Sigh Clo Peas)

[Wavicle]

31 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

That isn't the stated reason behind the change, though that may be how some players take it. I'm sure it will be a change that will surprise some players, but it wasn't done to punish newbies/alts. It was done to balance the ability of pausing a temporary buff. For players that were used to taking the Amplifier route at the lower levels, if these changes go live, they will need to either pay more inf or find an alternative if they don't like the change. 

It may not be the stated reason, but it’s the real effect. Frankly, I don’t understand the reasoning at all. Who was using these things, then going into an event that didn’t allow temps and complaining about it?

[PeregrineFalcon]

25 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

That isn't the stated reason behind the change, though that may be how some players take it.

It's not "how some players take it." It's that regardless of the stated reason for this change, this is the factual effect that it will have.

 

As a rule I'm always against "fixing" stuff that ain't broken. This isn't broken so I don't understand why the devs are spending the time and effort to suddenly "fix" something that ain't broken.

[Vanden]

I don't really mind the change. Amps are supposed to function as inf sinks, but they're not really doing that if a level 50 character can just defeat a single +1 boss and pay for 8 hours of each on a level 1 character, which seems by far the most common use for them.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Vanden

[Aurora_Girl]

10 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I don't really mind the change. Amps are supposed to function as inf sinks, but they're not really doing that if a level 50 character can just defeat a single +1 boss and pay for 8 hours of each on a level 1 character, which seems by far the most common use for them.

 

Are they supposed to function as inf sinks? They were profit generators on the Paragon Market but, I mean. That's not where we are and *certainly* not how they're used now. 

[macskull]

24 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

Are they supposed to function as inf sinks? They were profit generators on the Paragon Market but, I mean. That's not where we are and *certainly* not how they're used now. 

That's the purpose of pretty much everything at the P2W vendors. They could've made everything there free but chose not to.

[arcane]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

It's not "how some players take it." It's that regardless of the stated reason for this change, this is the factual effect that it will have.

 

As a rule I'm always against "fixing" stuff that ain't broken. This isn't broken so I don't understand why the devs are spending the time and effort to suddenly "fix" something that ain't broken.

Define broken, cuz I’m not sure amps aren’t 

[GraspingVileTerror]

A couple of thoughts and potential solutions for the Amplifier situation:

 

I concur that the proposed change gives the message (intentional or not) that new players and low level characters do not deserve equal consideration as level 50s.  This sentiment has been an undercurrent in some other design choices in the past, but it's especially flagrant here.

If the plan is to proceed as described in these patch notes, then I believe that change merits VERY clear communication as to why it is being done.

 

As they stand on the Release servers, the Amps are actually filling the role of "Easy Mode" rather comfortably, if not perfectly executed.  With the possibility of an "Easy Mode" still not even assured, I think it's especially problematic to change the Amps in such a way as to reduce their accessibility to the players who could really benefit from them at a basic level.

I appreciate the proposed change of being able to "halt" the timers when the Amps aren't in use.  As a roleplayer, I've often lost out on copious amounts of Inf since a scene came up after I had already purchased the Amps.

However, 2.5 million is prohibitively expensive to players who don't make bank on the market, don't farm, and don't play copious amounts of time on 45s to 50s.

 

I propose the potential solution of three new Temp Powers, mutually exclusive with their Amplifier counterparts.

Assists!

Defense Assist, Offense Assist, Survival Assist.

 

Providing a sort of "training wheels" boost at the more manageable price points of (Level*Level*1000) Inf.

 

List them in the same place in the P2W as the Amplifiers, giving a clear explanation as to their differences.  If a player purchases an Assist, then they can't purchase an Amplifier until the Assist is deleted/run down.  Same for vice-versa.

Additionally, we could use the opportunity to explore the possibility of adjusting the values of the bonuses, or even implementing scaling bonuses in the Assists (such as providing more benefit at lower levels, which eventually scales down).  Not necessary, of course.  Just a thought about what sort of flexibility there can be.

In any event, the Assists would not be "bankable" like the Amplifiers by switching on Self-Suppression.  

 

If the plans for a dedicated Easy Mode are still in the stars, and these proposed Assists run the risk of causing issues there, then I proposing adding the term "LIMITED OFFER" to their descriptions.  Make it clear that the Assists aren't here to stay if the plans for an eventual Easy Mode necessitate such.

 

 

Alternatively, postpone the changes to the Amps until the Easy Mode is available, and tell players running the new Master of content "sorry, we're choosing to prioritize the little guys this one time."

[PeregrineFalcon]

2 minutes ago, arcane said:

Define broken, cuz I’m not sure amps aren’t 

Per Webster's Dictionary:

Broken

damaged or altered by or as if by breaking, such as

1. having undergone or been subjected to fracture a broken leg
2. not working properly
3. of land surfaces : being irregular, interrupted, or full of obstacles a long broken ridge
4. violated by transgression : not kept or honored a broken promise
5. discontinuous, interrupted a broken sleep
6. disrupted by change

Is there some reason you couldn't have googled the word? That's all I did.

 

The amps ain't broken. They work properly and they aren't discontinuous or disrupted.