Hurricane (from Storm Summoning) making people physically ill?

[Spectral]

As I now know of a few people that actually get nauseated by the graphics of Hurricane (especially if brightly colored, apparently dark/black is more bearable to them).

 

Talking to these affected people the consensus seems to be:

- bright colors are far worse than dark colors

- the rather similar (visually) power [Time's Juncture] from Time Manipulation is not as bad as the graphic is more "transparent" and not as bright

 

It would be great if more affected people could share their thoughts about this?

 

Would "decreasing" the particle numbers (amount of pixels) for Hurricane to a level similar to Time's Juncture "fix" this? Is that even possible for dev's to do (code-wise)? Or would forcing Hurricane to "dark colors only" be an option (including the original, that is very bright)?

[BrandX]

Honestly, I'd wonder if Storm was even that popular of a set for this to be a concern, not that I ever heard of people getting sick from it.

 

Have an Elec/Storm Troller.  Never got sick from it.

[Spectral]

Well I know of at least 2 people (from my SG), who will need to quit the league/team because it is so bad for them.

 

It was a discord discussion with them that got me to post this poll. 🙂

[Tuft]

Well, I'm one of the few that suffers from this.

 

When the rotating spinning disk occupies a large portion of my field of view I get vertigo and experience motion sickness. If it keeps occurring it can finally become so bad that I have to go and lie down motionless with my eyes closed for several hours.

 

I once played a TF, I think it was Citadel or perhaps Hess, when I played a tank and a storm defender kept enveloping me in the rotating disk. I was still pretty fresh to HC, so I did not speak up and instead tried to toughen it out. Well, I got a really bad case of motion sickness and I was still queasy the next morning, bad enough that I had problems getting to work that day.

 

Its not the only FX that can induce vertigo: When they revamped Disruption Arrow the HC Devs asked me try out various options, until they finally found something that did not give me vertigo, which I am very grateful for. 🙂

Edited May 31, 2022 by Tuft
spelling

[AboveTheChemist]

While I have never noticed issues with Hurricane, several times I've become nauseated while playing. Typically it happens if I am flying for extended periods (especially if I turn rapidly/frequently), and it happened the one and only time I tried to get some of the ski run medals in Pocket D. In the worst cases I have to log out and lay down a while.

 

I do have a Sonic/Storm defender, but I rarely use Hurricane on her. I also have an Illusion/Time controller but I never noticed any issues with Time's Juncture. In the name of science, I'll try to remember to hop on my defender and turn on Hurricane a while to see if I start getting queasy. I'll report back how it goes.

[TheZag]

There is an option for suppress fx when close and a slash command that lets you choose the suppression distance. 

 

I dont think the devs will change the animation to help with motion sickness.  They did change a power that was causing headaches,  i think it was in a sonic power. 

 

Unfortunately,  motion sickness needs to be handled by the individual.  Shorter play sessions,  ask teammates to not use certain powers,  take a motion sickness pill,  team with players that dont have those powers,  drink a ginger ale,  use a smaller screen,  zoom out the camera.  My wife can play for 20 minutes and then she is nearing motion sickness no matter what powers are being used.  After 30 minutes she is down for 2 hours,  40 minutes and she is down for the rest of the day.  I cant expect the devs to remake the game because it makes her sick but perhaps the suppress close fx can help your friends.

[Golden Azrael]

Yes.  Sonic.  Being the notable offender on Live.  I was somewhat dismissive.  'What's the big deal?  If can't be that bad...surely it can't affect people...'

 

Until it happened to me.  Sonic pulsing circles on the -Res Arrow.  Made me feel ill.  My duo partner at the time couldn't wrap his head around the fact that it affected me (though it didn't him...)  We were both playing the Def' Trick archers.  And this power set was up for a power pass.  And I made my suggestions crystal clear on the forum and why.  And ironically, it's a power that is linked to the original Sonic stuff that caused nausea on live.

 

There are a few different pulsing hypno effects like this in the game.  Noticeable.  Toggles/auras for blaster self buff on Stone.  And blaster elec!  Also the drain aura 'skirt' on Elec Dominator.  (I tried to put it on the darkest colour to notice it less...)  When you can see it, you can't unsee it.  

 

You know that feeling just before a storm when it feels like your head is heavy or someone's gripping your brain?

 

Extended playing of CoH can cause people to say they have head aches etc and needing to go lie down.

 

I remember one of the original developers of Bungie (who created the FPS shooter Marathon on the Mac...) suffered from motion sickeness.  ('Never happen to me.'  I said at the time.)  In the triple edition boxed set, there's a background story booklet with one of the developers with a metal sick bucket laying on a bed or something.  Looked really ill.  Too much play testing for him.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

26 minutes ago, TheZag said:

There is an option for suppress fx when close and a slash command that lets you choose the suppression distance. 

 

I dont think the devs will change the animation to help with motion sickness.  They did change a power that was causing headaches,  i think it was in a sonic power. 

 

Unfortunately,  motion sickness needs to be handled by the individual.  Shorter play sessions,  ask teammates to not use certain powers,  take a motion sickness pill,  team with players that dont have those powers,  drink a ginger ale,  use a smaller screen,  zoom out the camera.  My wife can play for 20 minutes and then she is nearing motion sickness no matter what powers are being used.  After 30 minutes she is down for 2 hours,  40 minutes and she is down for the rest of the day.  I cant expect the devs to remake the game because it makes her sick but perhaps the suppress close fx can help your friends.

 

What's the option for supress fx when close?  (I'll have to have a look around...)

 

On your 2nd point.  They already did for Sonic -res arrow (as the live devs did for Sonic Blast/Defender Sonic on live.)

 

I do agree with your point last paragraph.  My sympathies with your wife.  I think your suggestions are helpful.  I'll take note of some of those for myself.  I think some of the symptoms I'm currently suffering is because of long duration play.  And I think the problem is.  Each time you go back...it doesn't take long for these symptoms to re-emerge.  

 

One thing I have called for is shorter mission content/arcs and more tips.  Maybe this will help with shorter duration of play.

 

Azrael.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

6 hours ago, Spectral said:

As I now know of a few people that actually get nauseated by the graphics of Hurricane (especially if brightly colored, apparently dark/black is more bearable to them).

 

Talking to these affected people the consensus seems to be:

- bright colors are far worse than dark colors

- the rather similar (visually) power [Time's Juncture] from Time Manipulation is not as bad as the graphic is more "transparent" and not as bright

 

It would be great if more affected people could share their thoughts about this?

 

Would "decreasing" the particle numbers (amount of pixels) for Hurricane to a level similar to Time's Juncture "fix" this? Is that even possible for dev's to do (code-wise)? Or would forcing Hurricane to "dark colors only" be an option (including the original, that is very bright)?

 

I think bright colours are worse than dark ones.  I think decreasing 'bright' and 'particle' numbers could help.  I've done that to a few powers.  I guess it's like migraine sufferers complaining about bright colours and lights setting off their symptoms?

 

Just because it doesn't affect me (hurricane doesn't...) doesn't mean it doesn't affect some people.  As I found out with sonic arrow -res.

 

Azrael.

[TheZag]

I painted with too broad of a brush when i said the devs wouldnt change things for motion sickness.  If it affects alot of people or a change is coming anyway im sure they will be happy to address the issue.   But in my wifes case,  change how the entire game moves with the camera or make it 2-D arent realistic options.

 

Im not at home to look up the command but if someone hasnt posted it by the time i get home,  ill find it and post it.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, Golden Azrael said:

What's the option for supress fx when close?

 

/suppressclosefx 1

/suppressclosefxdist number

 

This setting only suppresses your character's effects.  It does nothing for effects from critters or other player characters, or environmental effects.  Most (not all) of your aura and large splashy effects will be hidden with this setting, but individual effects, like bright flashes from kicks and punches, will still appear to some degree.

 

/suppressclosefx 0

 

That turns it off.  It doesn't change the distance set with the other command, it just shuts off the effects suppression.

 

Setting /suppressclosefxdist to 17 corresponds to about 6 scroll clicks away from the character (camera distance).  If you play with the camera closer, you can set it to a smaller number.  If you play with the camera farther away, set the number higher.  I don't recall the maximum distance.  Experiment and see what works for you.

[TheZag]

Looks like suppress close fx doesnt do exactly what they need then.  I wonder if it doesnt suppress other near players fx because it wasnt added or because its not possible.

[Golden Azrael]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

/suppressclosefx 1

/suppressclosefxdist number

 

This setting only suppresses your character's effects.  It does nothing for effects from critters or other player characters, or environmental effects.  Most (not all) of your aura and large splashy effects will be hidden with this setting, but individual effects, like bright flashes from kicks and punches, will still appear to some degree.

 

/suppressclosefx 0

 

That turns it off.  It doesn't change the distance set with the other command, it just shuts off the effects suppression.

 

Setting /suppressclosefxdist to 17 corresponds to about 6 scroll clicks away from the character (camera distance).  If you play with the camera closer, you can set it to a smaller number.  If you play with the camera farther away, set the number higher.  I don't recall the maximum distance.  Experiment and see what works for you.

 

Cheers, Luminara.

 

Azrael.

[Omega Force]

8 hours ago, Tuft said:

When the rotating spinning disk occupies a large portion of my field of view I get vertigo and experience motion sickness. If it keeps occurring it can finally become so bad that I have to go and lie down motionless with my eyes closed for several hours.

Ugh, that sounds awful.  My wife tried to play back in the day, but something about the camerawork made her sick, too.  Inshallah someone can make a low vertigo mod for you, similiar to how you can replace certain costume pieces.

[Glacier Peak]

14 hours ago, Spectral said:

Would "decreasing" the particle numbers (amount of pixels) for Hurricane to a level similar to Time's Juncture "fix" this? Is that even possible for dev's to do (code-wise)? Or would forcing Hurricane to "dark colors only" be an option (including the original, that is very bright)?

Hi, players can decrease their particle count in the Settings tab under Graphics and Audio. Click the Advanced Graphics Setting to 'Enabled' then about 10 items down you'll see the 'Max Particle Count' slider which can be decreased to the desired amount.

 

[Spectral]

Ok, just to clear up my intent:

 

1) I don't have that problem (fyi, people with color-blindness-issues, red-green/etc, are supposed to be 8% of the male population and only 0,4% of the female population, I still think it's worthwhile to not make life harder for them, because we fail to care), but from working in IT I know a bunch of colleagues that have a red-green problem and don't dare to talk about it, so I was hoping people that do have a motion sickness issue would not be afraid to vote anonymously in a poll.

 

2) I was curious how many of the playerbase do (5%?, 1%?, 0,1%?) have that problem, and a poll could be good for that, but with only 24 votes, this poll not representative, maybe I was crazy thinking this could maybe get 200+ votes to get an idea (<-- most likely crazy, hopefully I might have more votes dripping in until next week? next weekend should give people time?). I personally have no idea how many are affected.

 

3) I was also curious if there are known workarounds, so if I hear that other people have this problem, I can tell them...

 

@Glacier Peakthank you for your suggestion, I tried to see what it does with my stormy (I set particle count to minimum), and basically it's a constant on-off... like switching the power on and off ...? Not a steady half-transparent look that I was hoping for.

[Greycat]

Yeah. I argued for getting Sonic changed on live because it was causing friends to have to stop playing - it would trigger migranes. I dn't suffer from migranes, but it even bothered me. The revised Sonic - once you cut through posts of people being asses about it - still managed to trigger a reaction in one person (who hadn't realized he had a problem 'til his girlfriend mentioned him - I thin passing out? - during some part of Saw due to visuals  and he saw a neurologist.) 

 

I hadn't heard of Hurricane doing this during all of live, but people don't like speaking up. (see "people being asses about it" re: Sonic.) Usually they need someone just bullheaded stubborn enough to bring it up and keep bringing it up. (*waves.*)

 

It would help if they can experiement a bit and give a more "it's when it fills the screen," or the colors, etc. as mentioned above. If there's a setting they can change on their side that helps, great (and make sure that info's publicized.) If not, then *yes,* I would hope it'd be something a dev can tweak or find an option for or something. But the more info means there's more to work with to find a solution.

 

(And no, I don't care if it's one person or a thousand.)

[battlewraith]

If the devs saw fit to address this issue, I don't think it would be on par with burning down the Ferris wheel or outlawing cars. 

My understanding is that the current devs are a volunteer team who are doing this out of love for the game and goodwill towards the community. If those are the kind of values by which you're motivated, then I would think that a priority would be addressing aspects of gameplay that make people sick and/or prevent people from experiencing the entire breadth of content. Addressing it could also prevent similar issues from arising further down the developmental road. The fact that the actual number of people might be relatively small doesn't make it a waste of time or less laudable.

[Bionic_Flea]

I don't have a problem with Hurricane graphics and I have taken a few stormies to 50.  But I do tend to pick colors that minimize the effect somewhat because I like to see my costume and what is going on around me.

 

I don't see why we can't take the OPs word for it if he/she says a couple of people have mentioned to him/her that Hurricane makes them nauseous.  It doesn't take a lot of imagination to think that a spinning disk of fog might make some people ill . . . or hypnotized!  

[GM Impervium]

So, I just hid a lot of posts. Like, half the thread, damn.

Allow me to make a few things clear here, folks.

The Homecoming Devs and staff want CoH to be a game that is open and accessible to EVERYONE. If there are certain effects or powers that cause issues, even if it's just for a small number of people, we WANT to know. The devs actually previously spent a LOT of time with a single player who had issues with Disruption Arrow's FX. BUT, we need to know who these players are so we can get their feedback on any potential changes. We'd hate to just blindly guess what would work, only to make things worse! So please, encourage anyone having issues to submit a ticket or make a thread detailing what's going on, so we have something to work with.

Second, allow me to reiterate part of our Code of Conduct:
 

The following is considered prohibited content:

• Hate speech:
  • Hate speech is defined as anything threatening or abusive towards a specific group based on their race, religious beliefs, political affiliation, disability, sexual orientation or gender identity

I'd consider "Getting sick from seeing fx on a screen" to be pretty darn debilitating. So I'd like people to more carefully consider their objections when suggestions like these are made. I'm all for back-and-forth and constructive criticism and disagreements, but if it's seeped in "I don't care about your disability", then it's not valid to post.

Thank you. Let's keep it kind!

[WanderingAries]

While not one who suffers from more than just sound triggers for migraines when playing (that's what my volume controls are for), I'm more than aware of people that just can't handle everything from certain motions to flashing content. That's why some games/movies/etc will put a warning at the beginning in situations where there's no ability to control such things. Luckily, we have settings as described above (that I actually planned on writing up if it hadn't been) that give you full control over the majority of what could be triggers. Now I don't recall seeing it, but is it possible to perhaps make a GFX mod (would have to cover all powers and be updated over time) to alter what these things look like on the end-user's side? That way, between the settings and the mod, a customizable method would be available.

[Ghost]

Out of curiosity, has the OP tried different viewing angles?  Maybe seeing less of the rotation may help.  I don’t know.  I don’t suffer from this, but was curious after seeing the pic posted by @Spectral

[UltraAlt]

On 5/31/2022 at 5:55 AM, Spectral said:

As I now know of a few people that actually get nauseated by the graphics of Hurricane (especially if brightly colored, apparently dark/black is more bearable to them).

 

Talking to these affected people the consensus seems to be:

- bright colors are far worse than dark colors

- the rather similar (visually) power [Time's Juncture] from Time Manipulation is not as bad as the graphic is more "transparent" and not as bright

 

It would be great if more affected people could share their thoughts about this?

 

Would "decreasing" the particle numbers (amount of pixels) for Hurricane to a level similar to Time's Juncture "fix" this? Is that even possible for dev's to do (code-wise)? Or would forcing Hurricane to "dark colors only" be an option (including the original, that is very bright)?

 

Do they know about the noparticles command and does that help them at all?

/macro Off "noparticles 1"
/macro On "noparticles 0"

First one turns the particles off. 2nd turns the particles back on. You have to rezone most of the time in order for the particles to turn entirely back on. But you don't have to zone for the full particle "off" to activate. 

 

It doesn't cover everything and it definitely doesn't cutdown on the brightness but it does make the screen far less busy  ... on higher level teams you can actually see the enemies during a fight!

[UltraAlt]

On 5/31/2022 at 12:25 PM, TheZag said:

There is an option for suppress fx when close and a slash command that lets you choose the suppression distance. 

 

That doesn't work as well as the noparticles command.

I couldn't even tell when it was supposed to be suppressing.

 

On 5/31/2022 at 12:50 PM, Golden Azrael said:

What's the option for supress fx when close?  (I'll have to have a look around...)

 

I doubt that will help.

 

On 5/31/2022 at 12:55 PM, Golden Azrael said:

I think decreasing 'bright' and 'particle' numbers could help.

 

noparticles help with the particles. I would go that route on the particles, because sometimes you will want to have them and other times you might want to see the particles. For example, if you turn particles off, you can't see base portals or the thing you need to click on for using an O-portal (you can see the rest of the O-portal though!).

 

/macro Off "noparticles 1"
/macro On "noparticles 0"

 

I don't know of a command that can change the brightness of other players costume/power colors.

 

[Spectral]

Wow... I'm so sorry @GM Impervium that you had to step in. I was hoping for feedback but not for it to go viral in the bad way it did. I'm sorry.

 

I just wanted to reiterate: I, personally, don't have that problem, so while I can test some things to some extend, I'm not a good beta-tester to fix this.

 

I know of at least 2 Guildies (and I play with them all the time) who are very badly affected (one of them being Tuft, the other doesn't want to post and I definitely can understand why) and I've had other people (who's @global I don't remember) leave my teams/TF/... because "they did not like hurricane" (I never had anyone quit team because of energy blast, initially I though it was Hurricane's repel/KB, but that discussion with Guildies put the "quitting team" in a very new/different light).