The current crafting system is pointless.

[Galactiman]

Crafting in this game is basically just grocery shopping. You have a list of crap that you pull from your storage or buy on the AH, you travel to/summon a workbench, and you click a button. There is no interesting gameplay aspect involved and it just boils down to a time waster and inf sink. If there are no plans to change the system at all then it would be better to either get rid of the crafting system altogether and have IOs just drop instead of recipes, or at the very least just have recipes require inf to craft, because at the end of the day that's what it is already, just with extra pointless steps. This isn't a live service game anymore, we don't need pointless time wasters to keep people subbed.

 

Agree or disagree? Also, for anyone out there who enjoys crafting, what are your ideas for how to fix the system so that it's actually an interesting gameplay feature?

[catsi563]

Respectfully disagree

 

to cover the points individually

 

Quote

Crafting in this game is basically just grocery shopping. You have a list of crap that you pull from your storage or buy on the AH, you travel to/summon a workbench, and you click a button.

this essentially is every crafting system in every game ever. you obtain materials via mining or drops or the AH and press the craft button at the appropriate forge table anvil etc to make the items

 

Quote

 There is no interesting gameplay aspect involved and it just boils down to a time waster and inf sink

What precise gameplay mechanic would you want in this regard?  have the Player have to do a game of dance dance revolution? crafting is in nearly any game enough of a pain as it is without adding additional mechanics that make it less accessible for those who may or may not have some issue that prevets them from doing more than clicking a button

 

Quote

 If there are no plans to change the system at all then it would be better to either get rid of the crafting system altogether and have IOs just drop instead of recipes, 

 

This would be worse because then it becomes a completely random luck of the draw method, which would reward only those who do higher end content as by neccesity youd want the higher end purples to drop from high end content. it would also lead to basically stacked firefarming worse then we have now as active guilds do nothing but firefarm runs to go full loot run as volume of runs would become the norm.

 

the same would happen in regular content with people doing ONLY speed runs as casual game play went out the window for speed running as much content as possible to maximize drop potential. Casual gamers would get screwed as they try to join a TF only to be left in the dust franticaly trying to catch up to a tf that is 2 zones ahead of them as they exit the first mission

49 minutes ago, Galactiman said:

or at the very least just have recipes require inf to craft

 

Influence is already required to craft. high-end IOs cost at least 450k to craft per enhancement not counting all the salvage needed

 

 

I dont know if there is a way or honestly a need to fix the crafting system at this time its as fairly straight forward a system as there is in any MMO or any game for that matter. you obtain materials and then craft them. 

 

At best id like to see Science and Tech and Magic heroes perhaps get a boost to craft speed or a discout on inf cost or materials cost to make the Origin specific heroes perhaps be more needed open world so you could go to a known tech hero and ask for some tech IO or a magic hero could ritual up a magic IO set or a science hero could science up some science doohicky

 

thats all i can personally think of

[Akalabeth]

FF14 has fun crafting, but I doubt that system could support the demand.  Runescape is just clicking on things and waiting.  Wow is about the same as this except you don't need to use crafting stations.

[AboveTheChemist]

I disagree. Perhaps I am in the minority, but the crafting system in CoH is just about perfect to scratch my crafting itch without having to get bogged down in leveling different crafting skills, using different crafting tables/containers, and maintaining a bloated bank (or separate bank mule characters) full of crafting materials.

[MangoKulfi]

I think I get what you mean.  That it's overspecialized, you're never going to get anything beyond what you set out to craft.  No matter how many Dam IO or Dam/End from a set you craft none will ever pop out with a +5% range bonus to set it apart.

 

Relative to CoH it's fine because the game isn't gear focused to being with, I can see how it's lacking compared to others though.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Galactiman said:

IOs just drop instead of recipes

 

This happens, they are call SOs, they drop frequently and builds run just fine on them.

If you meant IOs from sets should drop then thats different and maybe... but

the idea of the inventions is that they require crafting.

 

1 hour ago, Galactiman said:

Agree or disagree? Also, for anyone out there who enjoys crafting, what are your ideas for how to fix the system so that it's actually an interesting gameplay feature?

 

I craft quite a bit and it works well enough for me. Sometimes I earned salvage or recipes sometimes I need to buy it.

 

The consolidation of salvage, recipes and enhancements into buckets was helpful.

Being able to turn an unpopular enhancement into a valuable one is also pretty helpful.

 

[Glacier Peak]

I disagree with the premise of your question. I enjoy creating items in this game and feel nothing but good ol' relaxing fun when I need to create something. 

[srmalloy]

What, like add new skills for crafting various types of IO that have to be leveled separately from your combat abilities, and which gives you a chance to fail on any crafting attempt, wasting your materials, and perhaps requiring you to craft lower-level IOs that you rework to turn them into higher-level IOs -- which we see in lots of fantasy MMOs as tools to make players spend more time leveling and making it harder and more expensive to craft? Hard pass. If you want crafting more deeply embedded in the play of an MMO, there are lots of them for you to pick from.

[CaptA]

It's not pointless. It produces things. It's fine the way it is. 

[Ironblade]

3 hours ago, Galactiman said:

Crafting in this game is basically just grocery shopping. You have a list of crap that you pull from your storage or buy on the AH, you travel to/summon a workbench, and you click a button.

You've just described the crafting system of just about every MMO or co-op survival game I've ever played.  I think it works fine.

I can, however, think of two systems I've dealt with that were WORSE in some way.

 

In Black Desert Online, when upgrading your gear, if you fail the upgrade chance:

1) The gear is damaged.

2) The gear is downgraded to a lower enchantment or outright destroyed.

 

In Everquest 2, crafting involved all the steps you described but the actual crafting process involved sitting there during an 'interactive' crafting process that was just tedious and mindless clicking.  I like it much better in 7 Days To Die where you get your materials, go to the appropriate crafting table, click, and it tells you how long it will be until it's ready and you walk away and come back later.  I still have to gather the materials and build the crafting station but they don't then add tedium.

[TrelNargil]

3 hours ago, Galactiman said:

Crafting in this game is basically just grocery shopping. You have a list of crap that you pull from your storage or buy on the AH, you travel to/summon a workbench, and you click a button. There is no interesting gameplay aspect involved and it just boils down to a time waster and inf sink. If there are no plans to change the system at all then it would be better to either get rid of the crafting system altogether and have IOs just drop instead of recipes, or at the very least just have recipes require inf to craft, because at the end of the day that's what it is already, just with extra pointless steps. This isn't a live service game anymore, we don't need pointless time wasters to keep people subbed.

 

Agree or disagree? Also, for anyone out there who enjoys crafting, what are your ideas for how to fix the system so that it's actually an interesting gameplay feature?

 

   There is an old adage where I grew up at, and it's this...
   "Don't fix what ain't broken..."

   So yeah, pass...

 

Peace...

[TygerDarkstorm]

2 hours ago, AboveTheChemist said:

I disagree. Perhaps I am in the minority, but the crafting system in CoH is just about perfect to scratch my crafting itch without having to get bogged down in leveling different crafting skills, using different crafting tables/containers, and maintaining a bloated bank (or separate bank mule characters) full of crafting materials.

Then perhaps I am in the minority with you, but I rather enjoy the crafting system in CoH as well. I've crafted in WoW and GW2, I would not want to return to crafting systems like those. 

[Techwright]

19 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

You've just described the crafting system of just about every MMO or co-op survival game I've ever played.  I think it works fine.

I can, however, think of two systems I've dealt with that were WORSE in some way.

 

In Black Desert Online, when upgrading your gear, if you fail the upgrade chance:

1) The gear is damaged.

2) The gear is downgraded to a lower enchantment or outright destroyed.

 

Sounds a bit like the old Tabula Rasa crafting system which let you take a grey vendor trash item and color by color increase its rarity turning it into an orange, eventually and potentially, but with ever increasing chance of catastrophic failure for each level and with greater cost in resources.  Oh, and you could also craft bonuses features onto it.  I've not played BDO, but I actually enjoyed the TR system, though I rarely tried for purple or orange.

[Ukase]

3 hours ago, Galactiman said:

Crafting in this game is basically just grocery shopping. You have a list of crap that you pull from your storage or buy on the AH, you travel to/summon a workbench, and you click a button. There is no interesting gameplay aspect involved and it just boils down to a time waster and inf sink. If there are no plans to change the system at all then it would be better to either get rid of the crafting system altogether and have IOs just drop instead of recipes, or at the very least just have recipes require inf to craft, because at the end of the day that's what it is already, just with extra pointless steps. This isn't a live service game anymore, we don't need pointless time wasters to keep people subbed.

 

Agree or disagree? Also, for anyone out there who enjoys crafting, what are your ideas for how to fix the system so that it's actually an interesting gameplay feature?

I'm on the fence a bit. 

First, it does require influence to craft recipes into IOs. 
Second, it all depends on how you define "gameplay". 

I like the market and the invention system.

If we're going to ask to save time, we might as well ask for the instant 50 again, as well as instant transcendent merits to fully incarnate. (denied on both counts!)

But then - we've taken away all the figurative carrots for a number of players; there will be no further reason for them to play the game. 

Nobody has put a syringe of Supradine to your neck forcing you to craft. If you'd rather not - simply don't. 

For me, it's cheaper to craft a recipe and convert it than it is for me to buy the IO I would want. Now, if I get a crafted set enhancement drop instead of the recipe, I suppose I could see the logic in that. 

That would probably take a lot of stress of the AH, not having to track invention salvage anymore. But I'd be a bit bummed having a couple of characters with a boatload of the stuff stashed in the AH for when I need to craft stuff. What would I do with it all? 

I guess what I don't see is how it would save me time. I'd still have to convert the damn thing to what I want. 


 

[Herotu]

4 hours ago, Galactiman said:

Crafting in this game is basically just grocery shopping. You have a list of crap that you pull from your storage or buy on the AH, you travel to/summon a workbench, and you click a button. There is no interesting gameplay aspect involved and it just boils down to a time waster and inf sink. If there are no plans to change the system at all then it would be better to either get rid of the crafting system altogether and have IOs just drop instead of recipes, or at the very least just have recipes require inf to craft, because at the end of the day that's what it is already, just with extra pointless steps. This isn't a live service game anymore, we don't need pointless time wasters to keep people subbed.

 

Agree or disagree? Also, for anyone out there who enjoys crafting, what are your ideas for how to fix the system so that it's actually an interesting gameplay feature?

‘Every MMO inconvenience is someone else’s game’
https://massivelyop.com/2022/06/09/massively-overthinking-every-mmo-inconvenience-is-someone-elses-game/

Inconvenience is the essence of a game. I mean, if you're playing Monopoly, why not just give all your money to the banker and call it a night?

[KC4800]

No one makes you craft anything, unless you want those badges for crafting and selling. You can buy pretty much whatever you want on the AH. Sure some things are rare and cost beaucoup inf. As long as crafting is still fun for some players, why take that fun away from them because you don't like it?

[tidge]

If the alternate to crafting recipes with a workbench, salvage and Inf is the mechanism by which Incarnate powers are crafted... imma stay with workbench crafting m'kay?

[Turric]

Also going to disagree. I think the current system is just fine and I like how it works.

 

I remember with horror the original crafting system in Dark Age of Camelot which required hunting special monsters to get the right components. It was a massive time sink and ultimately not worth it. And the mind numbing "press button, fail, press button, fail, press button, success! press button, fail, press button, success!" And each attempt took over a minute!

 

No thank you.

 

I respect that you might like a more interactive crafting system but I think you're in the minority here. I understand that Lord of the Rings Online has a kickass system where you can make your own music, if that helps (which it probably doesn't) (side note: I hated crafting in that game too)

[Snarky]

19 hours ago, Galactiman said:

There is no interesting gameplay aspect involved and it just boils down to a time waster and inf sink.

Any game someone does not like can be boiled down to this statement

 

Crafting of some type in every game is enjoyed by a small community of OCD types and immersive players.  Things exist for a reason

 

You do not enjoy it.  Get some Inf and buy what you want.  
 

Snarky solves another problem.  

[Herotu]

3 hours ago, Snarky said:

Snarky solves another problem.  

Meh! I just take it for granted that Snarky will solve all the problems. Nobody appreciates heroes these days!

[Redletter]

I want to agree in general, because like, I think it's genuinely backwards that you need like, nearly as much INF to CRAFT something as to BUY it off the market (some cases, not all)?

 

But like, none of the points you raise address that. You honestly just kinda sound like you're coming off ff14 (who's crafting system is ALSO a joke, it's just a joke with gameplay) and you're kinda upset that this... what? 20 year old game's crafting system isnt that.

 

Like, I'd say it could use some refining. Like, there's no real way to farm specific resources reliably? Certain enemies have certain salvage drops, but the only way I've seen farming done in any reliable fashion is ON an AE farm, which many people arent spec'd to run. So the fact that say like, I need Psionically Charged Brass for something, and I have no real reliable way of GETTING that resource does kinda bother me from a crafting point of view, but like... this game is older than I am? Im not gonna fault it for not having resource nodes I can exhaust trying to get the things I need, when realistically, I know I could MAKE a fire farmer myself, and get in on that method (the only reliable method of which im aware) of resource gathering.

[Sovera]

3 minutes ago, Redletter said:

I want to agree in general, because like, I think it's genuinely backwards that you need like, nearly as much INF to CRAFT something as to BUY it off the market (some cases, not all)?

 

But like, none of the points you raise address that. You honestly just kinda sound like you're coming off ff14 (who's crafting system is ALSO a joke, it's just a joke with gameplay) and you're kinda upset that this... what? 20 year old game's crafting system isnt that.

 

Like, I'd say it could use some refining. Like, there's no real way to farm specific resources reliably? Certain enemies have certain salvage drops, but the only way I've seen farming done in any reliable fashion is ON an AE farm, which many people arent spec'd to run. So the fact that say like, I need Psionically Charged Brass for something, and I have no real reliable way of GETTING that resource does kinda bother me from a crafting point of view, but like... this game is older than I am? Im not gonna fault it for not having resource nodes I can exhaust trying to get the things I need, when realistically, I know I could MAKE a fire farmer myself, and get in on that method (the only reliable method of which im aware) of resource gathering.

 

(Humorous, not meant in mean spirited fashion, but I could not resist after the third like)

[Herotu]

21 minutes ago, Redletter said:

I want to agree in general, because like, I think it's genuinely backwards that you need like, nearly as much INF to CRAFT something as to BUY it off the market?

Isn't that market forces tho? That's how it's SUPPOSED to work - competition forces prices to the minimum possible (i.e. the COST to make it). If you still don't like the price, blame the arbitrarily pre-set prices of the components.

[Riverdusk]

8 hours ago, Redletter said:

I want to agree in general, because like, I think it's genuinely backwards that you need like, nearly as much INF to CRAFT something as to BUY it off the market (some cases, not all)?

 

 

8 hours ago, Herotu said:

Isn't that market forces tho? That's how it's SUPPOSED to work - competition forces prices to the minimum possible (i.e. the COST to make it). If you still don't like the price, blame the arbitrarily pre-set prices of the components.

 

Also not true in my experience.  I can almost always buy the recipe and craft it myself for quite a bit cheaper than just buying the pre-crafted version on the market.  The big exception to that of course is attuned stuff, as you can't buy an "attuned" recipe or get one to drop (wish you could).  And so then buying a catalyst on top of the recipe to then attune it does lead to it costing way too much versus just buying an attuned IO.   Catalysts becoming a lot cheaper would be another way to "fix" that, but not sure a good way to do that.

 

Back to the original post, as someone who dislikes crafting in almost every game, CoH's isn't bad at all and I think is one of the better done ones the way it stands.

[Andreah]

On 6/27/2022 at 3:16 PM, Techwright said:

I've not played BDO

BDO's crafting system was ... well, I'd use the word Horrible, but it doesn't convey the incredible frustrations and sense of loss it gave me. Maybe Terrible, or Horrendous, I dunno, I'm at a loss for it.

 

There was some complexity, but it boiled down to a lot of preparatory gathering, pre-processing effort and time investment into one very low chance to succeed, which would very nearly ruin your gear on failure, and make you feel like you completely wasted the last week of your life.  And make you feel envious to the point of hatred of people who worked just as hard and smartly as you did, but who just happened to roll luckier. 

 

And there were some people who liked it, I guess.