Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[Grouchybeast]

17 hours ago, Haijinx said:

I'm still stuck on the main opponent to the change grousing that the problem is they can no longer have billion+ inf builds for ALL their alts.. 

 

This is not a MMO economy problem.  This is a Monty Haul Campaign issue. 

 

I think I'm beginning to see the real issue with COH as it exists today.  Its a munchkin campaign.  

 

I keep thinking about a survey post to find out how many fully IOed-out level 50 characters per [unit time] people think is a reasonable number to be able to generate by their preferred playstyle.  I feel like it would need to be a survey with a very wide range of answers, but I have no idea what that range should be.   One per year?  Per month? Per week? Per day?

[Haijinx]

2 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I keep thinking about a survey post to find out how many fully IOed-out level 50 characters per [unit time] people think is a reasonable number to be able to generate by their preferred playstyle.  I feel like it would need to be a survey with a very wide range of answers, but I have no idea what that range should be.   One per year?  Per month? Per week? Per day?

I have 1 

 

Which is my first/only no expense spared build ever tbh. 

 

I made much of the money doing a completionist run of solo story arcs (gold, blue and red) 

 

The rest was task forces.  

 

Just get  merits  sell converters repeat. 

 

 

 

[Coyotedancer]

17 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I keep thinking about a survey post to find out how many fully IOed-out level 50 characters per [unit time] people think is a reasonable number to be able to generate by their preferred playstyle.  I feel like it would need to be a survey with a very wide range of answers, but I have no idea what that range should be.   One per year?  Per month? Per week? Per day?

 

You would probably get "None. Ever." from a few people. (Yes VT, I'm looking at you. 😁)

 

Just thinking about the character lists that many of my own friends have, though, really huge collections of "finished" 50s seem fairly rare. Quite a few tend to have a lot of alts (tons in some cases-) of various levels, a much smaller group of 50s in various stages of completeness and maybe a handful of favorites that are Incarnated and completely kitted out even though we're at a year-and-change into the game's return. 

 

I'm the odd one out, there. I have a sizable group at this point , but I tend to finish one member of the crew before I move on to the next, so almost all of my characters are 50 (I have 4 that aren't-) and all of those 50s are IOed/Incarnated to at least what I consider a reasonable standard. That "finishing one before starting another" doesn't seem to be the usual City-Player Pattern, though... so I'm not sure of it's really useful to compare a list like mine to the lists of more typical alt-a-holics?

 

It's an interesting thing to think about though... 

[Yomo Kimyata]

My play style is primarily what I call Accelerated XP Mission Content (AXMC, trademark pending), so I build alts quickly and equip them with IO sets as I go, usually starting at lvl 17.  I'd say that by level 17, each of my characters has need for about 200mm in inf for staples like Miracle procs and ATO sets, and I can generally make that in the AH from scratch by the time I level to 17.  So it's safe to say that I'm accumulating inf a lot faster than I need it.

 

I have about ten 50s, and the only real difference between my lvl 49 builds and my lvl 50 builds are purples if I want to swap out sets and catalysts, and I've never not had enough cash on that character to buy them as soon as I ding 50.

 

I don't think I'll start PLing to 50, since I don't enjoy the end game as much as I do the rest of it, but if I did, I'd say I think that a "correct" length of time it should take to kit it out would be a week or two.  I'm pretty much just making that number up, but it feels right to me.

 

 

[Haijinx]

Wait ... the unrepentant marketer and the dismayed farming advocate both have roughly the same number of purpled-out build Alts?

 

Lol

 

 

 

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I keep thinking about a survey post to find out how many fully IOed-out level 50 characters per [unit time] people think is a reasonable number to be able to generate by their preferred playstyle.  I feel like it would need to be a survey with a very wide range of answers, but I have no idea what that range should be.   One per year?  Per month? Per week? Per day?

That would be.... I don't know. Honestly kind of a useless question, since there are so many variables. Not everyone cares to *be* "fully IOd out," so what would their answer be? And per year/month/etc? What about how much time they *have* to play? Number of alts, time in other things they enjoy doing (RP, base building, etc.)

 

And honestly, it affects nobody. If you have one character you play, it's going to be IO'd out just by things *dropping.* I have dedicated RP time, time on 50s doing 50-ish things, time leveling alts... yes, I think my couple of 50s (three, with a few in the 40s, at 100 characters) are "IO'd out," as much as I care to, but others would probably say I should spend a few hundred million INF to tweak this/that/the other. I don't care. *shrug* The number of IO'd alts you have, or anyone else has, doesn't affect me.

 

So where's the "don't care" option? 🙂

Edited July 24, 2020 by Greycat

[Sir Myshkin]

21 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

I think it'd be fun if a bunch of market data was dumped on us similar to the AT information. How much total influence, what percentage does the top 1, 5, 10%, etc hold. Average transactions by day, week, month, etc. That would be fun.

If anyone learns anything about Influence, it's better to have stock in property than cash. Oh wait, that's a real-world economists perspective. Enh, it still holds true here too. If you measured raw Influence across an account, I would easily appear to have "little" in fluid funds, but I sit on physical items worth a considerable amount beyond. It would be rather difficult to say "who's the richest one of all" if we only looked at where the fluid Influence flows and pools.

 

18 hours ago, Lockpick said:

I'm still trying to figure out why people are spending a billion Inf on builds.  I consider my builds high end and none of them have come close to a billion.  I tend to use the 2 AT sets, usually a couple of winter or purple sets, and the core procs and other IOs like LoTG.  Many of the cheaper sets are better than some of the high end sets (depending on your build goals).

Most current project I early bank rolled with floating funds 200m Inf, completed every item in his build to level 35, but started slotting at 23. Given the last few items the build needs are Purples I cannot slot, and a couple more WO's I'll likely have to shell out an additional 200m. But, you're right, a "billion inf build" is incredibly over stretched. At most I've only ever spent a hard-cash value of ~650-700M (roughly) for any one character.

 

1 hour ago, Coyotedancer said:

I'm the odd one out, there. I have a sizable group at this point , but I tend to finish one member of the crew before I move on to the next, so almost all of my characters are 50 (I have 4 that aren't-) and all of those 50s are IOed/Incarnated to at least what I consider a reasonable standard.

Not sure what I'd class as sizable, but I suspect I'm in the same boat as you. I roll a character and level to 50, fully slot the build and earn at least the Alpha slot and a T3 to sit in it, and that's irregardless of whether I ever intend to log into the character again (I have a couple that I never play).

 

 

[Coyotedancer]

1 hour ago, Haijinx said:

Wait ... the unrepentant marketer and the dismayed farming advocate both have roughly the same number of purpled-out build Alts?

 

Lol

 

 

 

 

If you're talking about me as the "farming advocate"... No.

I have a few more than that. And not all of them use terribly pricey, purpled-out builds. 

 

ETA re Mysh's post: I also have a few that I never play. I haven't touched my Tank or my Illusion Controller since I finished them... I *did* still finish them, but that was mostly a matter of principle more than anything else. XP

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by Coyotedancer

[Haijinx]

29 minutes ago, Coyotedancer said:

 

If you're talking about me as the "farming advocate"... No.

I have a few more than that. And not all of them use terribly pricey, purpled-out builds. 

 

ETA re Mysh's post: I have a few that I never play, either. I haven't touched my Tank or my Illusion Controller since I finished them... I *did* still finish them, but that was mostly a matter of principle more than anything else. XP

 

 

 

No no.

 

I'm referring to the post made about how horrible it was 2xinf was over now they can't have more than 10 Purple Alts Thus tragedy.  Not you at all. 

 

The Irony was .. that the marketeer had about the same amount.

 

[Lines]

4 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I keep thinking about a survey post to find out how many fully IOed-out level 50 characters per [unit time] people think is a reasonable number to be able to generate by their preferred playstyle.  I feel like it would need to be a survey with a very wide range of answers, but I have no idea what that range should be.   One per year?  Per month? Per week? Per day?

I might be odd for a forum frequenter, but above average for a player. I get my alts to fairly affordable builds of about 150mil inf and consider them done once they feel comfortable.

 

But all of those have some ways they could go to increase their power. That doesn't interest me. Ones who are done to the best of my ability, with expensive builds? Three.

[AboveTheChemist]

5 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

I keep thinking about a survey post to find out how many fully IOed-out level 50 characters per [unit time] people think is a reasonable number to be able to generate by their preferred playstyle.  I feel like it would need to be a survey with a very wide range of answers, but I have no idea what that range should be.   One per year?  Per month? Per week? Per day?

I'm in the same boat as Lines. I shoot for a build in the 150-175 million range and I've been quite happy with the versatility and challenge offered by the characters that I have made with those builds. I don't use purples or winters at all, and rarely use ATOs. I stick with just the two main PvPs (Panacea proc & Gladiator's Armor +Def) and the rest are uncommon/rare IOs. I've been playing since right after HC released, and I have 6 level 50's with another 4 in the 30-40 range that I'm working on. All are fully IO'd (with IOs waiting in storage for the sub-50's). I have not made an alt in a while but I'd say one fully IO'd character per month seems about right for me. I am a quite casual marketeer, crafting and converting only dropped recipes that don't require rare salvage, unless they'll craft an IO that is worth 2m or more. That nets me about 300m a month and that is more than enough to cover my expenses.

[Bionic_Flea]

Sort of a tangent here; but an interesting one.

 

I think I may be similar to Myshkin and Yomo in that I gift new alts about 200M seed money to buy all the P2W transports and goodies and then a few procs, PvPIOs, and ATOs that can be slotted early.  After that they generally pay for themselves just by playing and crafting/convertng/sellng my drops.

 

I have 23 alts about evenly split between two accounts.  All are level 50 and most are pretty much "complete" which to me means getting to +3.  A few of my favorites get to be +4 to everything.

 

I farm and market, but not a lot of either.  I tend to play new characters until somewhere between 20 - 35 and then feel the need to boost them ten levels or so they can slot out their powers.  I slot attuned sets as I level so that at 50 I end up with a completed build once I slot purples (if any) and catalyze my ATOs and WinterOs.  My marketing consists of selling drops and older characters put in lowball bids for unloved recipes or IOs, which then get crafted, converted and sold when I next play that character.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Bionic_Flea

[Troo]

11 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

..a survey post to find out how many fully IOed-out level 50 characters per [unit time] people..

"Fully IO'd" could be pretty subjective.

[Grouchybeast]

7 hours ago, Troo said:

"Fully IO'd" could be pretty subjective.

Extremely subjective, which is another reason why I haven't made the poll :-)  Also it would be nice to try to get a handle on what that preferred playstyle I mentioned actually is, and how people gather their resources and make inf, and how incarnates play into definitions of 'finished' characters.

 

The answers here are still all very interesting, though.

[Myrmidon]

19 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

 

I keep thinking about a survey post to find out how many fully IOed-out level 50 characters per [unit time] people think is a reasonable number to be able to generate by their preferred playstyle.  I feel like it would need to be a survey with a very wide range of answers, but I have no idea what that range should be.   One per year?  Per month? Per week? Per day?

All One Thousand if I could.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Myrmidon

[Dazl]

Everyone could be fully IO'd, basic IO's are pretty cheap compared to the sets.

[Haijinx]

10 hours ago, Troo said:

"Fully IO'd" could be pretty subjective.

I think in context they are referring to Builds like you see posted on the Archetypes sub forums. 

 

Mids Pron as it were. 

 

 

[Coyotedancer]

48 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I think in context they are referring to Builds like you see posted on the Archetypes sub forums. 

 

Mids Pron as it were. 

 

 

 

"MIDS-pron"... I love it. XD

 

But, yeah. When I say "finished build", I'm talking about using IO sets, not commons. I suspect that's true for most of us when we're talking about getting to the point of a character being complete.

[Yomo Kimyata]

20 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

 

 

Most current project I early bank rolled with floating funds 200m Inf, completed every item in his build to level 35, but started slotting at 23. Given the last few items the build needs are Purples I cannot slot, and a couple more WO's I'll likely have to shell out an additional 200m. But, you're right, a "billion inf build" is incredibly over stretched. At most I've only ever spent a hard-cash value of ~650-700M (roughly) for any one character.

 

On an aside, I agree with @Lockpickand @Sir Myshkinhere -- I feel like the billion inf build is mostly a mythical beast nowadays.  I mean, sure, you CAN spend a billion inf, but even at buy-it-NAO prices I think most high end builds cost 1/2 to 2/3 of a large, especially if you are crafting and converting on the way.

[Lockpick]

 

12 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I feel like the billion inf build is mostly a mythical beast nowadays.  I mean, sure, you CAN spend a billion inf, but even at buy-it-NAO prices I think most high end builds cost 1/2 to 2/3 of a large, especially if you are crafting and converting on the way.

 

I had a post earlier where I priced out a high end DP/EM build, which came to ~$665M at buy-it-NAO prices.  That build included the set IOs, the catalysts, and the boosters.  I believe if I tried to replicate this build and took my time I could easily shave off $100M+.  If I converted along the way it would probably be cheaper.

 

Here is a tip for that I do.  I'm sure others do it, but not sure I have seen it written up.

 

I'll put in low bids for attuned IOs that will convert to a rare.  I want attuned IOs instead of just using a recipe drop because I like using attuned IOs for lower level content and I don't want to have to pay for a catalyst.

 

A good example is a Kinetic Combat will convert to a Force Feedback or Sudden Acceleration.  I'll use 2 converters to convert to a Force Feedback or Sudden Acceleration and then 1 converter to convert to another rare.  If I get lucky and get a rare Defense IO I will set it aside to eventually convert to a LoTG IO.  If I get something I can use in the future I put it in storage.  Say you buy 10 attuned IOs for $1.5M inf and then spent 30 converters converting (30 converters X $75K = 2.25M) for a total value of 3.75M for 10 IOs that can be used.  You now have 10 IOs you can use for future characters and can cut your costs significantly. 

 

I don't even usually assign converters a value because I use them to convert stuff and I rarely sell converters unless I am a lowbie trying to build an inf stake.  I can earn 12 reward merits in 10 minutes with Smoke and Mirrors, so I can use those 36 merits to convert the 10 IOs to whatever I want, so my sunk cost is $1.5M inf and 10 minutes.  If I don't get what I want or can use I'll just run another Smoke and Mirrors.

 

 

[Yomo Kimyata]

14 minutes ago, Lockpick said:

 

 

 

 

A good example is a Kinetic Combat Crash will convert to a Force Feedback or Sudden Acceleration.  

 

 

Sorry, just wanted to avoid confusion.

[arcane]

I use at least some purple sets in every build, at least some winter sets in the majority of them, and either (1) boosters in everything that will take them or (2) boosters in everything that will take them except where it hurts damage Proc rate significantly. And yes, “buy it nao” prices. I don’t get merits as much as people that fund without farming, but when I do, I’ll either throw them at a winter AO or boosters. I think it still adds up to a billion+ on average, but I’ll verify that next time I slot a new alt in a few days. I’ll do the next one with zero help from merits if I can get the cash together by then.

Edited July 25, 2020 by arcaneholocaust

[Lockpick]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Sorry, just wanted to avoid confusion.

Thanks!

[Troo]

I have many completed characters "Fully IO'd" with no winter, pvp, or purple sets (other than a fire proc or a unique).

I have less than a handful of over the top builds that include winter, pvp, or purple sets.

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Troo

[SwitchFade]

3 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

On an aside, I agree with @Lockpickand @Sir Myshkinhere -- I feel like the billion inf build is mostly a mythical beast nowadays.  I mean, sure, you CAN spend a billion inf, but even at buy-it-NAO prices I think most high end builds cost 1/2 to 2/3 of a large, especially if you are crafting and converting on the way.

Spot on. Really, the most expensive builds are dominators and tanks. I have 1 tank and 2 Dominators that were 1 billion or so each. Tanks is debatable, but I spent countless hours on mids making him extremely undeathable. All my other twinked out build were around 600-750.