What Can Be Done to Recruit Players?

[Without_Pause]

2 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

 

*Sigh* This is what I miss out on while not looking into that area pretty much at all. 

[golstat2003]

I think word of mouth should be enough to recruit new players . . . when they are not busy with new games.

 

Unlike when this game came out there have been and are (almost weekly now) new games that draw folks attention.

 

Hell Elden Ring is still one of the most streamed games and it's been out for over a month.

 

There are just too many games out now to expect any large influx of new players.

 

This game (although loved by all of us here) is OLD. And the dev team is a small volunteer team making updates as they can. Multiple updates per year isn't' happening. I'm just happy the game is back across different flavors.

[DoctorDitko]

On the other hand, when was the last time you saw a big new game launched without microtransactions, NFTs, or jerkass mechanics like "pay to patch" DLCs?

 

CoH has none of that BS. That's certainly a draw for some gamers. It's a tough niche to find examples of!

 

 

[Bionic_Flea]

While I am not a user or a fan of Twitch, having someone with a big following play the game a few times would probably bring a number of players. 

 

Or have Tom Holland play.  Everyone loves Tom Holland.

[Rokkeb]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:23 AM, Nemu said:

It's as much about retention as it is recruitment.

 

Unpopular opinion but stop enabling newcomers to shortcut the game straight to 50. Sitting in a fire farm with 2xp doesn't give these players any appreciation of the game and when they hit 50 incarnates trivialize the game and they think that's all there is to it. Skipping to 50 in 2 hours doesn't give you anytime to create bonds with the characters you make and that's a powerful emotion that draws people back. At that point there's nothing that makes this game sticky because in their mind COH is about fire farming and wrecking everything endgame with incarnates. Wouldn't you move on if that's all you think this game offers?

 

There are good kinds of enablement and bad kinds of enablement in this regard. Giving newcomers influence so they can get a head start on their COH journey is good. Giving them advice on how to play/build/make inf is good. But carrying them straight to 50 and beyond and depriving them of the real game experience is terrible. I know people think they are being helpful doing this and this is what constitutes a good community in their opinion but choices have consequences. And I believe we are reaping what we sow right now. This may or may not be the biggest culprit that contributes to the declining population but I believe it is an important one that should be recognized.

 

Slow lvling of alts in an MMO, especially one as end-game lite, and as alt-heavy as this one is a way to lose retention though. People get sick of grinding the same shit over and over slowly to level a new alt. So killing power leveling IMO does much more harm to the game, than those noobs that just sit around spamming LFG and Broadcast looking for power lvling.

 

I honestly feel like 1 or 2 DFB's should take you to 15, then give shit exp after that (like when the server first launched) then DIB to take you to 22 or so. 1-20 is boring as shit on all characters, and the missions are lame. By 20 you finally start to feel like your character. Then maybe bump up posi 1 and 2 to high teens low 20's as the max lvl for those missions instead of what is it, 14, and 16?

 

Unless they could make it so you can't get exp in an AE until you have a lvl 50 on the server, I don't see nerfing AE farming as a solution to anything as far as population retention goes. Lvling up new alts fast is a huge part of the game to many people who play.

 

I would say reseed the AH and set caps on all the IO sets might help too though. Feeling like you have to firefarm to afford IO sets seems to turn a lot of people away. As it is you have 2 choices play the AH for hours or farm AE for hours, because running TF's , story lines, and radios does not get you anywhere close to enough cash to kit out a character. That also could potentially lower the amount of fire farmers just hanging out willing to plvl random noobs in atlas as well.

[GM Impervium]

7 hours ago, BurtHutt said:

 

I also pitched this as well. Adding items from other servers if they have a friendly relationship. I don't know if these other additions to other servers are any good as I don't play elsewhere really.

 

It might be worthwhile to maybe grab a few items from the Ouros project. I believe a fellow posted an AT on there sometime back? Anyway, the HC team is doing a great job but it might be time to think outside the box. 

 

I try and make suggestions that are easier to implement but none of them seem to be of interest to the HC team. I'm hoping the AE one gets added very soon. It could be a game changer.

 

So, this sort of thing has come up before, but I'll reiterate our policy on this.

Homecoming strives to be run as a professional game developer would be. ALL of our Devs/Contributors sign a release stating that anything they create belongs to Homecoming. This way, if there's ever a conflict of interest or whatnot, or someone leaves, we don't have to remove/undo any work they've done. I mean, imagine how upset people would be leveling up a badger, and suddenly they can't get the max badge number anymore because a former dev claimed copyright of their old work and we had to remove it? Or someone used newer costume pieces on their character that are just GONE one day?

More pragmatically, stuff not made SPECIFICALLY for HC may not necessarily be compatible with our codebase. Or might not necessarily pass the high bar of quality we strive for, requiring more work on our end. This is just a hypothetical, I'm not taking a jab at anyone, or anything. The point is, it's not effortless to just plug-n-play.

While this is a policy I clearly support, I will concede there are potential downsides. It deals a lot with hypotheticals and averting worse-case "what if" scenarios. It prevents us from dipping into the community well, so to speak. And the idea of signing away one's work may give potential devolpers pause before choosing to contribute. But overall, we feel the positives, and avoiding the potential negatives, outweigh the "actual" negatives.

 

The policy we chose is aimed at keeping City of Heroes, and HC specifically, alive and in a good place. If it ever turns out that our policies contradict that ideal? Then we'd be forced to revisit them. But that's for Cipher and Jimmy and the rest to deal with. I'm just here to help the community 😃
 

[Ghost]

@Rokkeb

I kinda disagree - but it may just be me.

2 DFBs with 2XP gets you to lvl 9 - from there it’s Posi 1 and 2 - both fun.

 

For me, the real pain begins around lvl 40

[Saikochoro]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:17 AM, Greycat said:

 

Time: OK, so they sit a little longer on a farm first.

INF: ... isn't hard to get.

 

Side problem for any restricting is, well, a lot of us are "oldbies," and just want to get an old character up and running. (Or, like me, are in it primarily for the RP now.)  All these sorts of ideas would do is add some annoyance.

Agreed. Nerfing farming isn’t going to help or solve anything. Farming isn’t unique to homecoming or CoH. Nor is speed leveling. Removing options or trying to give players into one way of playing will just alienate and annoy players.  
 

I would have played for maybe a couple weeks at most if I couldnt easily level and gear multiple Alts in a short manner of time. Even during live I didn’t not enjoy a grind to 50 or story content. The notion that players should somehow be forced to do that at least once implies that there is a correct way to play the game and that is the correct way. That is just stupid.

 

Burnout happens with any game. I sincerely doubt the answer is for longevity is brand new players who have never touched city of heroes. This is a very old game and plays as such. Even if we do get an influx of brand new players forcing them to stop and smell the roses is less likely to get them to appreciate super old roses and more likely to get them drop the game in favor of a more modern game. 

[Glacier Peak]

2 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

But that's for Cipher and Jimmy and the rest to deal with. I'm just here to help the community 😃

 We summon thee,

 

@Jimmy

 

Any thoughts?

 

😁

[Nemu]

50 minutes ago, Rokkeb said:

 

Slow lvling of alts in an MMO, especially one as end-game lite, and as alt-heavy as this one is a way to lose retention though. People get sick of grinding the same shit over and over slowly to level a new alt. So killing power leveling IMO does much more harm to the game, than those noobs that just sit around spamming LFG and Broadcast looking for power lvling.

 

I honestly feel like 1 or 2 DFB's should take you to 15, then give shit exp after that (like when the server first launched) then DIB to take you to 22 or so. 1-20 is boring as shit on all characters, and the missions are lame. By 20 you finally start to feel like your character. Then maybe bump up posi 1 and 2 to high teens low 20's as the max lvl for those missions instead of what is it, 14, and 16?

 

Unless they could make it so you can't get exp in an AE until you have a lvl 50 on the server, I don't see nerfing AE farming as a solution to anything as far as population retention goes. Lvling up new alts fast is a huge part of the game to many people who play.

 

I would say reseed the AH and set caps on all the IO sets might help too though. Feeling like you have to firefarm to afford IO sets seems to turn a lot of people away. As it is you have 2 choices play the AH for hours or farm AE for hours, because running TF's , story lines, and radios does not get you anywhere close to enough cash to kit out a character. That also could potentially lower the amount of fire farmers just hanging out willing to plvl random noobs in atlas as well.

I never said anything about nerfing AE/Powerleveling and yet people dive right into this "Don't Nerf AE" rhetoric.

 

Let me put this into simpler language so the "DON'T NERF AE" crowd can understand.

 

You farming for inf, you multiboxing and PLing your own alts or you trading PLs with other farmers - I don't care. I PL too from time to time. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

You inviting some random newbie that just started this game to a farm to fast track them to 50 and thinking that you are being helpful - I have a problem with that thought process.

 

I care more about changing people's mindset about how they can help new players in their COH journey so that it's a memorable one that will keep those newbies coming back. Too often it's just power-leveling. It's not the only path and I don't believe that's the best path.

 

As for the fire farm for influence comment. What about teaching newbies to craft and convert IOs, how to turn merits into inf, etc... How about teaching them craft cheap builds to speed run TFs so they can rack up merits/hami-Os in a short time and turn that into profit, and then use that profit to upgrade/fund alts? Nah that requires too much effort to write and explain stuff to people new to the game right? Much easier to just let them sit on a farm, which they've already sat through for 50 levels, and further solidify in their mind that the only way to make inf or do anything in this game is through farms right?

 

Simple language time: There are other methods than power leveling and farming to enable and help newcomers to the game. You just need to be wiling to put in the effort. Not everyone will listen, but you will be giving those that do listen an option and the ability to choose between farming/PL vs the alternatives.

 

You don't need to defend AE, you don't need to write up elaborate justifications for why we should keep AE. None of that is relevant to what I'm talking about. Is that clear?

[Myrmidon]

On 4/22/2022 at 9:27 AM, Apparition said:

 

 

I 110% agree.  A friend of mine posted a suggestion last year that the AE buildings in Atlas Park and Mercy Island should be closed, and I agree.  I also think making double XP free was a mistake.  Make it available sure, but make it cost something like 5 million INF a hour... so if you do it, you can afford a build later.

 

 

 

My suggestion is to only allow AE rewards for Devs Choice content and scrub the rest. Although it would move the farmers back to Peregrine Island for the Save-A-Mission game, it would catapult AE into the quality content bracket, which is where it always should have been in the first place.

[Herah]

Sort of randomly inputting my thoughts from comments I've seen.

 

I've tried to stream the game a few times, just for folks to watch and see. Alas it's not something I've been able to keep going, people get a little stalker-ish. I'd like to be able to but maybe I'm the old fart that feels weird trying to have a conversation with imaginary people on a 10 sec delay.

 

I personally like to run events. Most nights I'm on it's the Hami. ToTing in Oct., random invasion events, trials, TFs, and just plain running the content. I mean, back in the day Frostfire was THE boss to beat. The last couple days just running radio missions for temp powers and only now moving into Croatoa to get my Katie unlocked. I still don't know how to do half of what's in this game and I'm ok with that. I'll never be able to make my own builds.....makes my eyes go cross.

 

I have introduced a few friends to CoH who have never played before or even heard of it until they played. I encourage newer players to run the content, if nothing else, to understand game mechanics and how your powers work. Knowing how to play the game is likely to keep newer players in the long run. 

 

I understand that the opportunity to play CoH is graciously granted. In exchange for being an absolute maniac all over Torchbearer, I get to play the game as it exists; something I didn't have the chance to do for a long time. New content is great, old content is great, I like who I play with and I have a good time. CoH was always awesome for the community. And if nothing else, I am definitely a part of my shards community.

 

For attention grabbers, I think having a dedicated space (social media ofc) where players are able to add game content. Saturday iTrials, nightly Hami raids, ToT league, random missions or TFs, or whatever else. Some place where content can be shared for others to see. Videos, screenshots, memes, what have you. A list of folks that stream the game. I think also making the player led event calendar needs to be more prominent. Most folks don't even know we have one. IDK if anyone does podcasts around MMOs, or older games, or just games to try or what have you. Depending on the kind of content people consume those might be ways to grab their attention. And, of course, the long standing issue for me is that CoH has to compete with Steam. Not that I have a massive library but Steam is an interconnected platform, gaming and socially. Heck even having the option to chat with your friends online when you aren't would be cool.

[BurtHutt]

3 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

 

So, this sort of thing has come up before, but I'll reiterate our policy on this.

Homecoming strives to be run as a professional game developer would be. ALL of our Devs/Contributors sign a release stating that anything they create belongs to Homecoming. This way, if there's ever a conflict of interest or whatnot, or someone leaves, we don't have to remove/undo any work they've done. I mean, imagine how upset people would be leveling up a badger, and suddenly they can't get the max badge number anymore because a former dev claimed copyright of their old work and we had to remove it? Or someone used newer costume pieces on their character that are just GONE one day?

More pragmatically, stuff not made SPECIFICALLY for HC may not necessarily be compatible with our codebase. Or might not necessarily pass the high bar of quality we strive for, requiring more work on our end. This is just a hypothetical, I'm not taking a jab at anyone, or anything. The point is, it's not effortless to just plug-n-play.

While this is a policy I clearly support, I will concede there are potential downsides. It deals a lot with hypotheticals and averting worse-case "what if" scenarios. It prevents us from dipping into the community well, so to speak. And the idea of signing away one's work may give potential devolpers pause before choosing to contribute. But overall, we feel the positives, and avoiding the potential negatives, outweigh the "actual" negatives.

 

The policy we chose is aimed at keeping City of Heroes, and HC specifically, alive and in a good place. If it ever turns out that our policies contradict that ideal? Then we'd be forced to revisit them. But that's for Cipher and Jimmy and the rest to deal with. I'm just here to help the community 😃
 

Yes, I get all of this. I don't deny it and I totally appreciate your efforts and the rest of the HC team. You helped us all pass time during a pandemic and that was awesome. However, we're not privy to anything behind the scenes (not that we need to be or should be) but it leaves us out here spit-balling ideas and wondering what is actually happening. 

 

Anyway, maybe one day I will get the call to be part of the team and contribute. I applied ages ago so i am not holding my breath. Life is busy anyway but this game has a special spot in my heart. 🙂

[Plasmic Rage]

This is a fun game when there is something to play for and people to play with. Double XP, the farm express to 50 and all of the free buffs removed the challenge of play and the time and investment it took to reach level 50. One could argue that players are free to not take advantage of them, but their existence kills any incentive to team up, especially at lower levels, except for the obligatory DFB spamming. The end result is there is nothing to play for and few people to play with because too many are hanging out in AE begging for farms. Players aren't staying because easy is fun for a few weeks or months, but then it starts to feel empty and uninteresting.

 

The live game was exhilarating. A low level team running around Perez Park or the Hollows with no travel powers because they weren't even close to getting one had a certain feel of dread if you were in over your head. XP debt meant something and you tried to avoid death as a result. If you wanted to level, you had to play to live and so did your mates, and it was fun. Leveling took longer and any power worth having that made you feel like a hero (travel powers in particular) took a long time to get - and THAT was one of the primary reasons why players came and stayed.

[macskull]

3 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

My suggestion is to only allow AE rewards for Devs Choice content and scrub the rest. Although it would move the farmers back to Peregrine Island for the Save-A-Mission game, it would catapult AE into the quality content bracket, which is where it always should have been in the first place.

That wouldn't move farmers back to PI, that would just cause the market to implode as one of the main suppliers of IOs suddenly stopped supplying them. If you've got a system which gives inf and XP but no drops (other than marginally-useful-at-best Architect tickets) prices will go way up as everyone's competing over a much smaller resource pool. Sure, you could remove inf and XP from non-Dev Choice arcs - congrats, you've turned AE into a ghost town.

[Bionic_Flea]

8 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

We summon thee,

 

@Jimmy

 

Any thoughts?

 

😁

Don't you have to say it three times, like Beetlejuice, Candyman, or Bloody Mary?

 

@Jimmy, @Jimmy, @Jimmy!

 

Let's see what happens now . . .

[Mike Morbid]

12 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

While I am not a user or a fan of Twitch, having someone with a big following play the game a few times would probably bring a number of players. 

 

Or have Tom Holland play.  Everyone loves Tom Holland.

Last I heard, the Homecoming team didn't want people streaming the game. Has that changed? I'd be glad if it is no longer the case.

[AboveTheChemist]

19 minutes ago, Mike Morbid said:

Has that changed?

The streaming policy was updated almost a year ago to allow streaming and video uploads.

[Without_Pause]

11 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

 

More pragmatically, stuff not made SPECIFICALLY for HC may not necessarily be compatible with our codebase. Or might not necessarily pass the high bar of quality we strive for, requiring more work on our end.

Wind Control is literally in your Wiki. While it has been mentioned in one of the other code bases that their version might be a bit too strong for end recovery, that seems like a mild issue to hammer out. Also, it can be other bodies simply working on what you want to add in the first place but now just getting it done faster. Oh, I do get your point and understand why you guys are doing what you do. It is just frustrating to see the dev base for this game so split versus condensing it down and making HC even better.

 

Tangent, Sonic Melee is practically on a silver platter right now. There's zero reason for it not to be in the running for having the fastest overall animations. I will be a sad panda if this isn't the next melee set added or ever at all. I feel like I should always mention it until it is fixed, but the "Last 5 bids" bug in the market code is really annoying. Find someone who can hunt that down and kill it.

 

It was mentioned, but I don't think I thumbed the post, but Dev events can be big. Anything really to get an article written about CoH at this point is significant.

 

I honestly see new people all the time. I do think player retention is important.

 

How not to introduce someone to the game.

• See a level 1 in Atlas.
• Blindly invite them on a farm.
• Tell them to grab a 2x XP booster which they can't do since they are now on a AE team with a selected mission.

I should have global blocked before I logged.

 

How to introduce people to this game.

• Lead teams. If you are here, odds are you are one of the more knowledgeable people in terms of the game. You should by default be able to run a team at a decent level.
• Find out who is new to the game. Make sure they are comfortable playing the game.
• If you have extra currency laying around, it wouldn't hurt to toss a newbie some of it so they can grab something like TT. Lord knows if they did grab 2x XP boosters they might not know how to counter that aspect yet.
• Create chat on your team. Non talkative teams are boring. One can stream roll and chat at the same time.
• Do the things which make the game unique and fun. Frostfire is a classic. I ran an Atta which is also a XP dump with a unique map and someone remarked how many years it had been since they ran it. I unlocked the Wasting Disease mission. I plan on grabbing people for that. Certainly beats some mindless radio mission.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Without_Pause

[Neiska]

9 hours ago, Nemu said:

Let me put this into simpler language so the "DON'T NERF AE" crowd can understand.

 

If I might play armchair philosopher a moment, I believe this statement says far more about you than the people you are addressing. I would also kindly remind you that yours is not the only voice here, it only takes a moment to look and see there are other voices present that are calling for AE nerfs. Not every pro-AE or pro-farm post is responding to you personally.

[Snarky]

12 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

While I am not a user or a fan of Twitch, having someone with a big following play the game a few times would probably bring a number of players. 

 

Or have Tom Holland play.  Everyone loves Tom Holland.

Right.  So, we are capable of intricate plans involving multiple strategies

 

First we make a careful plan.  Second, we kidnap Tom Holland.  Third, (here it gets complicated) we indoctrinate him over a few weeks.  ( Like Patty Hearst Stockholm syndrome).  After he realizes he loves CoH and must play hours everyday we release him back into the wild as a spokesperson 

[Mike Morbid]

39 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Right.  So, we are capable of intricate plans involving multiple strategies

 

First we make a careful plan.  Second, we kidnap Tom Holland.  Third, (here it gets complicated) we indoctrinate him over a few weeks.  ( Like Patty Hearst Stockholm syndrome).  After he realizes he loves CoH and must play hours everyday we release him back into the wild as a spokesperson 

"I'm Tom Holland, and I am a scrapper."

[The_Warpact]

13 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

 

Or have Tom Holland play.  Everyone loves Tom Holland.

Wrong there Ghost Rider,  I specifically have not watched any of the "new" Spider-Man movies because of him.

 

 

In other news, my VG has been reaching out to old members, we got one committed fully back in fact we got her to 50 on her brute last night.

Sad facet though, we knew about one of our friends passing and discovered another has a bad heart condition. So good news and bad news.

[Nemu]

1 hour ago, Neiska said:

 

If I might play armchair philosopher a moment, I believe this statement says far more about you than the people you are addressing. I would also kindly remind you that yours is not the only voice here, it only takes a moment to look and see there are other voices present that are calling for AE nerfs. Not every pro-AE or pro-farm post is responding to you personally.

Plenty of people have put up their Nerf AE comments in their posts but mine gets quoted and singled out even though mine made no such calls to nerf AE or powerleveling. I'm not responding to any of the other Pro-AE comments that aren't quoting me, because I read the posts and take them into context before I respond.

 

Frankly I detest the responses directed at me because you hide your fear of losing AE for YOUR own enjoyment behind some noble pretense of "this is going to cause other people to suffer." I can just as well use your own argument to me that "you don't know that" on that claim. Whereas I am genuine about my feelings about helping newcomers learn and love this game and AE is one of many tools that I have at my disposal for enablement, I'm not sure if your pro-AE intentions are rooted in the same cause. Whereas I'm calling for everyone to help newcomers in different ways you are just calling to "not touch my AE." No I think your intentions are just selfish, and you just don't want something YOU love taken away. And that's perfectly fine, but don't try to spin it as something that benefits everyone. That argument is weak.

 

If people want to respond to the Nerf AE rants, go respond directly to those, and leave me and my posts out of it.

[Troo]

11 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

My suggestion is to only allow AE rewards for Devs Choice content and scrub the rest. Although it would move the farmers back to Peregrine Island for the Save-A-Mission game, it would catapult AE into the quality content bracket, which is where it always should have been in the first place.

 

Would earning AE tickets still be available?

 

Maybe increase the tickets a bit while dialing down other aspects? There a good number of levers that can be adjusted.