Hover and CJ Slotting

[drgantz]

Should Hover and CJ be slotted after the first slot?

I read one post that CJ doesn't have enough Def to be worth slotting.   Is this true?  What about Hover?

[The_Warpact]

Don't know if this is that right area, should asked in the AT section. 

Regardless it depends on the build, AT, etc and what specifically its intended use.

[Luminara]

The Defense is the same for both.  If slotting them for Defense would be what puts you at your total Defense goal, then they're worth it (example: you're at 44.3% +Def Smashing/Lethal/Energy, and you would like to soft-cap versus those damage types, then slotting for Defense would help you achieve that).

 

Otherwise, slot with a LotG +Recharge, or a Stealth IO, or the Kismet +ToHit, or the Shield Wall +5% Res (All), or the Reactive Defenses scaling +Res (All), or any combination of those, and leave it at that.

 

Hover, you can slot for +Flight/Movement in addition to the globals/procs mentioned, but if you have Evasive Maneuvers, you probably won't find it necessary.  CJ provides plenty of +Jump Height without slotting, and enough -Friction to allow you to slide up the tiniest incline by holding your Jump key, so it also doesn't need any additional slotting.

[Andreah]

I usually load CJ or Hover up with those kinds of uniques. They take one slot regardless of the power they're in, so these are good places for them, especially if you have a tight set build to achieve other things from sixth slot bonuses in other sets.

[cohRock]

Almost all of my guys have Combat Jumping or Hover, so I'm pretty familiar with their idiosyncrasies.

1. As @Luminara already stated, defense is the same on both.  A key difference is end cost, though.  Combat Jumping only costs .07 end/sec, whereas Hover costs 0.2/sec -- almost three times as much.
2. Both offer some element of mitigation.  With Combat Jumping, you have immobilize protection about equal to what a tank gets.  Hover offers fairly effective knockback mitigation.  Instead of being pushed away, your character does a quick flip.  Hover also offers the ability, on open-air maps at least, to fire from above melee range, which is why I think it is more expensive.
3. Both function fine with only their base slot.  I usually  slot CJ with a Jump and Hover with a Fly.  Adding a second slot for the Luck of the Gambler recharge proc is common, although a lot of folks who do this don't add a slot and put the proc in the initial one.
4. If you take Hover, also consider taking Evasive Maneuvers (EM).  It boosts Hover and Fly speed significantly and adds protection against -Fly as well as some significant travel defense.  The defense goes away while being aggressive, however.  It also adds immobilization protection, just as CJ does.  The downside is end cost -- 0.25/sec.  Blasters and Sentinels often have end recovery powers mitigating this cost.  If you are one of the crazy folks who take Fly without Hover, EM grants the same flight control that Hover does.

[0th Power]

My hover has a LOTG, a Kismet and 2 flight IOs

[Greycat]

Depends what you want. Sometimes I'll just throw a KB resist in there on a squishy and call it a day. But I don't aim to cap thnigs, so...

[SuperPlyx]

One thing I didn't see mentioned was the fact that Combat Jumping cost almost no endurance.

So you get a toggle that cost no end and you can slot multiple global and unique IOs.

[roleki]

4 hours ago, 0th Power said:

My hover has a LOTG, a Kismet and 2 flight IOs

 

I try to slot Kismet in an auto where possible, but on a lot of characters, Hover ends up slotted as expressed here.  Hover without flight speed enhancements is just torture.

[Bopper]

If you want the extra jump height, you can slot CJ with the Launch unique. It will more than double the height added by CJ.

 

CJ adds 200% Jump Height (8 feet) at base. That's the same amount the Launch IO adds, but it's also accompanied by a 26.5% Jump enhancement. So with this slotted you can turn CJ from a +8ft Jump Height to +18.12ft.

 

In a way, you can treat this enhancement as adding 126.5% jump height when slotted in CJ

[GM Impervium]

You also have to remember that AT plays a role with how effective Hover and CJ are due to modifiers. Tanks and Defenders get 2.5% Defense from these powers (a single +3 SO or a high-level basic IO will get you just above 3%, which isn't bad!), while Blasters only get 1.75%, and can pull off about 2.5% enhancement value. Other ATs are somewhere in the middle.

I know that doesn't sound like a lot, but keep in mind that the IOs that grant a flat 3% defense are pretty pricey on the AH, so clearly people agree that +3% Def is a big deal :)
 

[Onlyasandwich]

All of the above ideas are great. In addition to the uniques and lotg, I also often slot two or three slot blessing of the zephyr. It provides a very slot efficient bit of ranged and aoe defense for positional softcap goals, while usefully pumping hover speed. It handles your -knockback too! If your defense goals are positional, this provides more than slotting hover for its innate defense.

 

Another unique worth considering is the winter's gift slow resist. Slow resist is an oft ignored, but very helpful stat to stack!

 

Obviously one can't fit all of this at once. Typically I will have other defensive powers that I can shunt uniques to as needed.

 

Another good practice is to try and grab hover or CJ really early in the build so you benefit from these powerful uniques from a very low level.

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by Onlyasandwich

[ZorkNemesis]

Personally I don't add slots to either unless I need the room to squeeze in other unique defense IOs.  They have a rather small benefit, even on the ATs with higher modifiers, that I feel trying to slot them is slots that could be better utilized elsewhere.  They get the standard Luck of the Gambler recharge boost and that's usually all I ever put in them, but if I have nowhere else in my build to put them i'm not adverse to giving them the Reactive Defenses or Shield Wall resist uniques either.

[Bill Z Bubba]

17 hours ago, roleki said:

Hover without flight speed enhancements is just torture.

 

Much less so than it use to be thanks to being able to toggle on fly without hover detoggling.

[ForeverLaxx]

17 hours ago, roleki said:

Hover without flight speed enhancements is just torture.

I'm still used to the original Hover, and all the buffs Hover has received over the life of the game has caused me to not really mind current Hover speeds. That said, I don't use it for world travel, but in a mission, it's fast enough to let me keep up with the team.

[Doomguide2005]

On 12/10/2021 at 8:54 AM, ForeverLaxx said:

I'm still used to the original Hover, and all the buffs Hover has received over the life of the game has caused me to not really mind current Hover speeds. That said, I don't use it for world travel, but in a mission, it's fast enough to let me keep up with the team.

     Amen!

     Said as someone who spent a half hour using Hover to escape the deeply red Hollows on my then level 6 Scrapper after the level ~13ish team I was on disbanded post mission back in i4.  And later used it to visit the Storm Palace (the structure) before Hover started receiving buffs to its base speed.  

[Yomo Kimyata]

In many cases, Combat Jumping is the first defense power I take on a character.  My standard build theory involves two slotting it early for the Shield Wall proc and the Kismet accuracy (both slottable at lvl 7).  Later I will add either two slots (for a Reactive Defenses proc and a LotG proc) or one slot (remove the Kismet, add the Reactive Defenses and the lotG).

[Hew]

3 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

remove the Kismet,

Why ever would you do this? Even if you are drowining in +acc, +tohit only comes from a few sources, and its a big difference against +3-+5s, compared to just +acc!!

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Hew

[Yomo Kimyata]

Sometimes you need the slot.  Sometimes I am drowning in +acc and if my last to hit is consistently 95%, then I'll take it out.  But you make a valid point.

[Peacemoon]

Combat jumping is incredible low end cost and can easily be run while playing normally. 

Hover costs more end to run and slows your character down unless slotted. Worth considering! 

[Sovera]

Neither are worth slotting for defense, but they are worth picking as one slot wonders. If you can only pick one then CJ is better for having nearly no cost.

 

I've come to exchange Maneuvers for CJ in my last builds to diminish the EPS costs though it means I'm not buffing the team. As rule both only have a LotG, but one will have the Shield Wall's 5% resist unique.

[tidge]

On 12/11/2021 at 12:41 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

 (remove the Kismet,...

 

On 12/11/2021 at 12:44 PM, Hew said:

Why ever would you do this? Even if you are drowining in +acc, +tohit only comes from a few sources, and its a big difference against +3-+5s, compared to just +acc!!

 

On 12/11/2021 at 12:51 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

Sometimes you need the slot.  Sometimes I am drowning in +acc and if my last to hit is consistently 95%, then I'll take it out.  But you make a valid point.

 

I like having the Kismet "global", and I like having it pre-50 (when slots are rare, and when the CoT debuffs are painful), but I tend to drop it unless:

• I have an auto (or must-use toggle) power, because Kismet only contributes when the power is on. (I'm not sure about click defenses. but those almost certainly have better slot options anyway). My Stalkers slot it in Hide ASAP.
• I have a Snipe as part of an attack chain, since (fast) snipes have more damage based on ToHit (up to 22%, IIRC) (My Blasters, Stalkers, Scrappers)
• I have a significant number of "proc monster" attacks, such that many attacks don't have accuracy slotting.
• I really enjoy playing against +N/debuffing content, and I want my teammates to see me hitting while they whiff!

I will admit that I typically slot Enhancement sets that end up giving me pretty big +Accuracy bonuses, so like @Yomo Kimyata wrote, I am watching my last to-hit chance.

[Marine X]

Combat Jumping and Weave are both great on Tanks and Brutes, especially if their Armor is Resistance Based, gives you someplace to build defense for when the resist is just not enough, and both have a small endurance cost for toggles. Usually 3 slot each with LOTGs to get the defense and global recharges, sometimes more if I feel the main armor needs more help, then respec later if I feel I no longer need the slots there. I know, probably not optimum, but it works.

[Riverdusk]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:39 AM, Doomguide2005 said:

     Amen!

     Said as someone who spent a half hour using Hover to escape the deeply red Hollows on my then level 6 Scrapper after the level ~13ish team I was on disbanded post mission back in i4.  And later used it to visit the Storm Palace (the structure) before Hover started receiving buffs to its base speed.  

 

Yep, it isn't so bad anymore.  One of the funniest things I remember back in the day when hover was so slow and stealth still had a movement penalty is if you turned both on it basically froze you in place.

[Icono04]

On 12/11/2021 at 5:39 PM, Doomguide2005 said:

And later used it to visit the Storm Palace (the structure) before Hover started receiving buffs to its base speed.  

You deserve some kind of Badge for having that much patience.  🙂